Rewriting history - Jeff Jarrett

[Michael_3165]

Jarrett has always and will always be a mid-card talent in my eyes. In 1999 he was nowhere near the top of the tree and comparatively he was unable to match the likes of Benoit, Guerrero et al coming in and Jericho, Rock, Austin and Triple H who were long stays in the company. 

 

Nothing about him felt big time and I personally wouldn't have bought him in a feud with Austin. 

[Jaffa]

Who's been overly generous when on top yet not suffered? Flair and Bret hart are the only two that come to mind but considering they both pretty much got used and abused by wcw and wwf alike that probably isn't a good.case for the "hand excalibur to the next generation" side.

It's The Rock, isn't it?

 

He put Undertaker, Cena, Austin (multiple times), Goldberg and Lesnar over clean and made Hurricane, Kurt Angle and Booker T look like genuine stars in feuds where they were all miles below him in the pecking order.

[unfitfinlay]

 

Who's been overly generous when on top yet not suffered? Flair and Bret hart are the only two that come to mind but considering they both pretty much got used and abused by wcw and wwf alike that probably isn't a good.case for the "hand excalibur to the next generation" side.

It's The Rock, isn't it?

 

He put Undertaker, Cena, Austin (multiple times), Goldberg and Lesnar over clean and made Hurricane, Kurt Angle and Booker T look like genuine stars in feuds where they were all miles below him in the pecking order.

 

 

I agree with this. His "Hollywood" phase, in particular, seemed to be all about him putting people over on his way out. Christian's Captain Charisma gimmick had it's origins in segments with The Rock at that point as well.

 

I actually can't think of a match where Rock really squashed anybody either. Maybe in his last run (that I didn't really watch) but in his prime he'd sell his arse off even in short, meaningless matches with someone like Lance Storm.

[wandshogun09]

Bret Hart was as big a cunt as any for crying if he had to lose. Diesel's title run was dead in the water when his first PPV match as champion was a draw with someone half his size.

Yeah and they certainly didn't put him in the best position to salvage his reign after that either. On the 'big five' PPVs alone he;

 

- Went to a draw with Bret Hart in his first PPV as champion.

 

- Beat Shawn Michaels at WrestleMania but was still made to look like a chump when Shawn had him beat for a visible three count while the ref was down. I know that's a common spot but it's not really ideal if you're trying to build up your new champion.

 

- Got stuck in a shitty tag match with Bam Bam vs Sid and Tatanka at King Of The Ring.

 

- Got saddled with King Mabel at SummerSlam. The only guy on the roster (besides Yoko) who Nash couldn't hit his finisher on, or most of his other offence actually.

 

On In Your House PPVs that year, he beat Sid by DQ once and again in the lumberjack rematch. And he lost by DQ to Bulldog. Before dropping the title to Bret at Survivor Series. So of the seven singles matches he had as WWF champion three weren't clean finishes.

 

That plus I think he said in one of his shoots that, after becoming champion, they immediately stuck him on the house shows working with Bob Backlund and King Kong Bastard Bundy.

 

Someone wanted Nash to flop as champion, right? They couldn't really have cut his legs off and set him up for failure any better than that really, could they? I honestly can't remember another WWF champion being booked to look so weak.

[IANdrewDiceClay]

Its funny this discussion has been brought up, because it was on Brock's Austin interview last night where Brock said it was the Rock who taught him how to be selfish back in 2002. Which is ironic, considering the Rock putting over a 23 year old green rookie with less than a year in the business was as unselfish as you can get.

 

Saying that, what is selfish really? If you're a top guy you have every right to protect your spot, within reason. There's a big difference between not working with Jeff Jarrett and doing what the WCW lot did to Goldberg and Sting. For me protecting yourself and completely killing someone off to keep yourself on the mountain by yourself is a world of difference.

[PowerButchi]

I remember The Rock refusing to put someone over once after HHH squashed Hurricane after The Rock did the honours for him, but that was more for the reason of "I'm not going to drop a win to someone if Trips is going to kill them a week later" than pure selfish. Just a little selfish.

 

But yeah, I've never had a problem with "Not feelin' it tonight, brother"ing people if you're in the top spot as it's your job to:-

 

a) keep that top spot in a competitive business, and you can't spell Main Event without the initals "ME"

and

b) then when you are feeling it tonight, brother, it's going to mean a lot more and have more chance of making a star as it's such a rarity.

 

Hogan played it brilliantly with the Goldberg situation in 1998, for example. Maybe HHH took it too far an extreme (and ironically enough, so did Jeff Jarrett in 2005-6 TNA), but you protecting your interests as the top guy is not only in your interests but in the interest of the company. The Rock and Mick Foley dropping falls all over the shop is an exception to the rule from wrestlers who had very unique qualities.

[JakeRobertsParoleOfficer]

Whilst this seems to have gone 'off topic' slightly, i think that 'BIG' marquee names should be protected and used to enhance talent as when done right it can totally establish someone 

 

e.g. Watch when Waltman goes over razor in 93! 1-2-3 kid was about 180 lbs if that (no way the 220 he was billed at) and Razor was just coming off a good showing at RR versus hart for the title.  Razor was (and would go on to be a BIG name) at that point and that win was utterly shocking (and it does look like he nailed Razor with the knee on the way back), and totally launched Waltman whose career was made by it (i doubt he'd have had anything like the career he had without it). The loss in no way hurt Razor and is actually looked at as a great wrestling moment as opposed to "razor lost to a job guy" and he went on to hold 5 IC titles afterwards

 

a perfect example of how it can be done right

 

another to a slightly lesser degree (purely because Lesnar looked like a monster and Waltman doesn't) is Hogan vs Lesnar, Okay i know Hogan had it in his mind that he'd come back and 'shock the world again' by beating Lesnar in a rematch down the line, however the bottom line is Hogan basically let Lesnar demolish him in a way that no other has done and it made Lesnar look like a beast.  Did it hurt Hogan.................course it didn't, in-fact he gets praise for putting him over! 

 

Where it goes wrong is for example like posted earlier when Rock takes a 3 count for hurricane and then HHH squashes him a week later! totally pointless or when a name incurs a loss that add no value whatsoever purely through baffling booking

[PowerButchi]

For all people's problems have been with Scott hall though, "not doing the job" hasn't been one in my opinion. He's done the favour for all kinds. Pac, Jericho in 1997, Hector Garza the same year, gave Benoit a real elevating in 1999, Jarrett in 95 (him again!)

[Jaffa]

I think it was Jericho who told the story that Hall was meant to squash him but didn't think it was the right thing to do so he went out and did a clean job for him without asking Bischoff.

 

I feel I may have missed some details there.

[unfitfinlay]

I remember The Rock refusing to put someone over once after HHH squashed Hurricane after The Rock did the honours for him, but that was more for the reason of "I'm not going to drop a win to someone if Trips is going to kill them a week later" than pure selfish. Just a little selfish.

 

But yeah, I've never had a problem with "Not feelin' it tonight, brother"ing people if you're in the top spot as it's your job to:-

 

a) keep that top spot in a competitive business, and you can't spell Main Event without the initals "ME"

and

b) then when you are feeling it tonight, brother, it's going to mean a lot more and have more chance of making a star as it's such a rarity.

 

Hogan played it brilliantly with the Goldberg situation in 1998, for example. Maybe HHH took it too far an extreme (and ironically enough, so did Jeff Jarrett in 2005-6 TNA), but you protecting your interests as the top guy is not only in your interests but in the interest of the company. The Rock and Mick Foley dropping falls all over the shop is an exception to the rule from wrestlers who had very unique qualities.

 

Foley, and arguably Jericho, are good examples of what happens when you are too selfless. They've come back and put people over so many times that it's really hurt their star power. Braun Strowman beating a former World Champion, clean, should've been a big deal but, because it was Jericho, nobody really gave a shit. In fact, as soon as he walked out, I was like "Well, he's taking the fall then".

 

The weird thing with Trips rep of killing people is that he's been proven right in a lot cases. Orton, Hardy and RVD all went on to prove that they really weren't ready to carry the ball at that point in time. Booker and Hurricane did seem to be a way to have a dig at The Rock though.

[DraxSpago]

For all people's problems have been with Scott hall though, "not doing the job" hasn't been one in my opinion. He's done the favour for all kinds. Pac, Jericho in 1997, Hector Garza the same year, gave Benoit a real elevating in 1999, Jarrett in 95 (him again!)

He annihilated Jericho then lost to a fluke roll up, from what I remember he battered him after the bell too, not much of a favour

[PowerButchi]

More than 1997 vintage Chris Jericho deserved. And again, at least he actually did the job which was my main point - that Scott Hall was never adverse to doing the job. And it couldn't have been that bad, as I still remember that throwaway match 18 years later. It's more a favour he did by giving up the fall after dominating the match (as someone about 9 inches taller and a world above on the card should do) than dominating the match and winning the fall. Surely that's not really up for argument? People remember it, it worked. Whenever a main eventer takes a fall for someone ghettoised in the cruiserweight division who's just been inspecting the lights for Alex Wright then it's a favour.

[DraxSpago]

It didn't mean anything though, Jericho was no better off, Hall was no better off (he didn't get any more heat because he twatted a vanilla face no one cared about), having a competitive 6 minute match and Hall sneaking a win at the end would've done wonders for Jericho at the time, though as you rightly point out he wouldn't really have deserved that

 

I'm not saying Hall was selfish by any means, just that the Jericho match is a terrible example compared to, say, the 1-2-3 Kid match

[PowerButchi]

Yeah, fair point, but pretty much every job of elevation pales in comparison to the Waltman match. It meant a fair bit to me at the time however did the Jericho, although granted, I was 12. It's like when PJ Walker pinned IRS and I thought he was MADE.

[GPW Kristian Zane]

What if Austin hadn't refused to work with Jarrett and Jarrett had been the one involved in the "Hit and Run" storyline which wrote Austin out in 1999. Would that not have been enough of an incentive for him to raise his game and perhaps go on to draw money with Austin on his return, rather than go to WCW?