Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted June 9, 2015 Paid Members Share Posted June 9, 2015 I had my ipod on shuffle today, and the Fusient Media Ventures conference call announcing the purchase of WCW popped up on there. Its so fucking sad looking back. My arse went all funny hearing the lads pipe out all these buzzwords that made them sound pretty clever. Amazing how it all fell apart. I mean, Bischoff was operating day to day within the company for months before WWF bought it. He was sacking people left right and centre. I suppose nothing is ever done until its done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Pitcos Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 The correct answer really is the company could do nothing unless, the Time Warner/AOL deal didn't go through, or Jamie Kellner didn't rock up with his nutjob fears of remote controls (he legit hated TiVO because you could skip the breaks and miss the adverts).  That's a pretty reasonable opinion to have on Tivo for someone whose job is all about advertising revenue.  Maybe be PG  They were.  Don't try and outdo the WWF, let WCW work their niche of the NWA/WCW style of wrestling  That was what they tried for years prior to Bischoff sorting the company out. It didn't work in the early nineties, and it sure as fuck wasn't going to work opposite Austin and DX.  Just re-evaluate the talent they did have and maybe bring in RVD, The Dudleyz & a few other top indie talents at the time. De-push the older talent, elevate the likes of Benoit, Saturn, Eddie, Malenko et al and let the established names do the job and then fade away into the sunset  Telling Hulk Hogan and Sting "you're jobbing to Eddie tonight lol" would have been stupid in and of itself, and would have been ridiculous as an attempt to save the company because the breach of contract lawsuits from all the creative-control stars would have killed WCW anyway. And Dean Malenko is about a hundred years old himself, and was shit.  Have Nitro be exciting, cut down on the promo's, focus on the Crusierweights and younger talents.  Have Nitro be exciting by doing the boring shit that modern WWE does? CRUISERWORKR8 GUYZ, STARZ N PROMOZ SUX wasn't going to be drawing viewers away from the Godfather and The Rock.  Just re-evaluate the talent they did have and maybe bring in RVD, The Dudleyz & a few other top indie talents at the time.  The Dudleys were already in the WWF, and RVD wasn't going to do much in a PG, old-school NWA promotion.  Ultimately, the answer to turning WCW around in 1999 definitely isn't "make it a fanwank promotion for Fin Martin." There probably isn't an answer. WCW was only ever a shithouse fed stuck in the territory days until Bischoff came along with a handful of good ideas. Those good ideas were what made the company, but they were also what killed it. Without the nWo, there's no boom. But because of the nWo, the company died (or rather, made it easy for the AOL merger to kill it). By late 1999, there was nothing feasible to stop it really. Stop bringing in expensive music acts that nobody cares about, but how much good would that have done in the long run? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members tiger_rick Posted June 9, 2015 Paid Members Share Posted June 9, 2015 With hindsight, the answer is probably just survive. All they had to do was be uncontroversial, stop wasting money and protect their real talent. Their fanbase was big enough to ride it out so had they not been a boil on the arse of Time Warner, their time would have come again once the WWF boom naturally ran it's course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Really Big Shoe Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Â Â Â Ultimately, the answer to turning WCW around in 1999 definitely isn't "make it a fanwank promotion for Fin Martin." There probably isn't an answer. WCW was only ever a shithouse fed stuck in the territory days until Bischoff came along with a handful of good ideas. Those good ideas were what made the company, but they were also what killed it. Without the nWo, there's no boom. But because of the nWo, the company died (or rather, made it easy for the AOL merger to kill it). By late 1999, there was nothing feasible to stop it really. Stop bringing in expensive music acts that nobody cares about, but how much good would that have done in the long run? Â WCW almost ran the WWF out of business at one point don't forget. The nWo angle was 'borrowed' from New Japan/UWF invasion angle, who (NJPW) they had a talent agreement with at the time. They rehashed it so many times and had nWo Hollywood, nWo Black & White, nWo Silver & Black, nWo 2000, nWo Wolfpac and even offshoots like the LWO that it got so watered down the logical ending to it would have been had WCW prevail and beat the 'bad guys' and allow the older guys a way to be gradually fazed out. The creative control clause was put in place as a way to entice other talent to WCW, as was guaranteed contracts, plus they worked a lesser schedule than the WWF too so that was a place most established names wanted to go really. Higher wages, lesser work schedule and a guaranteed deal. What essentially put the nail in WCW was that Jamie Kellner didn't want "wrasslin" on TV so cancelling WCW and them not being able to get a new TV deal was what really cost them at the end of the day. If Bischoff's consortium Fusinet Media Ventures managed to secure a TV deal, or they did a weekly PPV like they originally did at TNA, that could resuscitated WCW or atleast had them prolong the inevitable a while longer. Â Â Â Â Have Nitro be exciting by doing the boring shit that modern WWE does? CRUISERWORKR8 GUYZ, STARZ N PROMOZ SUX wasn't going to be drawing viewers away from the Godfather and The Rock. Â The Crusierweight division was probably the strongest asset they had. Ever see Wrestling Society X? they could have had a similar fast paced exciting product and still had the older guys like Hulk on the show but make WCW the alternative in terms of being the 'wrestling' show, kinda like what NXT is now, you know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PowerButchi Posted June 9, 2015 Moderators Share Posted June 9, 2015 Wrestling Society X is only a usable example if you need an example for "What was shit?". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Pitcos Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 The Crusierweight division was probably the strongest asset they had.  Only in the nonsensical fantasies of people who spent much of the prior decade reading Bryan Alvarez and lacking the ability for critical thought. In reality, it was a lowercard diversion.  Ever see Wrestling Society X?  No, was it a big success? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awards Moderator HarmonicGenerator Posted June 9, 2015 Awards Moderator Share Posted June 9, 2015 I still have my box set of Wrestling Society X Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Really Big Shoe Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015  The Crusierweight division was probably the strongest asset they had.  Only in the nonsensical fantasies of people who spent much of the prior decade reading Bryan Alvarez and lacking the ability for critical thought. In reality, it was a lowercard diversion.  Take the crusierweight division away and WCW was basically a retirement home for ex-WWF stars. Critical thought would actually tell you that from a mainstream viewer standpoint they are more likely to sit down and watch a high flying type bout, than having to sit through an overly long monologue, or Bisch pretending to be Jay Leno on that nWo parody of the Tonight Show he used to do. When you have the Attitude Era WWF and the likes of Austin et al doing exciting shows each week, back then then no one would have much incentive to tune in to see Hogan v Sting, or Hogan v Flair for the umpteenth time. From a monetary standpoint having Hall, Nash, Hogan et al under contract in theory are strong assets, but they are reminiscent of an older Footballer on thousands of pounds a week stuck on the wage bill who just turns up for a pay day or even sit on the bench. If you've never seen Wrestling Society X, it had like a cutting edge style of how the show was paced, they managed to cram in a lot of action in about 22 minutes and the shows were bogged down by half hour monologues or Goldberg severing the artery in his arm punching through car windows. WSX was not the best in-ring action, but it was different and focused on a Crusierweight type division so you had faster paced matches & such. It's probably not for everyone but if you're marketing at a younger demographic they'd probably much rather see something like that then sitting through matches full of rest holds & the older wrestlers lumbering through matches. Anyway I'm done with this now, it got really boring, really fast, as I can't really be bothered to counter-quote my dissected replies about a promotion that's been out of business for 14 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted June 9, 2015 Paid Members Share Posted June 9, 2015 Wrestling Society X was cutting edge? It was XPW without Kristi Myst and with better production. They killed any enjoyment in the matches by chopping the shit out of it. All it was was whacky Urban Wrestling Federation style shit. Â On the WCW front, you can argue television ratings all day. You cant argue buyrates and house shows. People were paying for the PPVs to see Hogan vs whatever ex-WWFer they wheeled in, because they were giant stars. And house show business turned around because of a Flair and Savage angle built around a fake divorce. The cruiserweights were fun to watch. I dont see how it can even be argued they were the reason for WCW's high points. WCW was hot because of a combination of things. Mainly because they took all the ex-WWF wrestlers who Vince thought were passed it, but were actually more well liked than what WWF had at the time. Unlike when TNA brought them in, in the 90s Hogan, Savage, Flair, Hall, Nash and Luger had a lot of millage left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PowerButchi Posted June 9, 2015 Moderators Share Posted June 9, 2015 Wrestling Society X was cutting edge? It was XPW without Kristi Myst and with better production. They killed any enjoyment in the matches by chopping the shit out of it. All it was was whacky Urban Wrestling Federation style shit. Â Â I'd have probably given WSX some props if it had Jerry Tuite in a gimp mask as at least XPW did, but it didn't (granted, he was long dead) and so other than Matt Classic it was the fucking drizzlings. Not even as entertaining as Abrams UWF. Who the fuck wanted Kris Kloss on their TV in 2006? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Pitcos Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Critical thought would actually tell you that from a mainstream viewer standpoint they are more likely to sit down and watch a high flying type bout, than having to sit through an overly long monologue, or Bisch pretending to be Jay Leno on that nWo parody of the Tonight Show he used to do. Â What an absolutely stunning sentence. Yes, Juventud and Ultimo Dragon were much bigger mainstream stars than Hulk Hogan and Dennis Rodman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members tiger_rick Posted June 10, 2015 Paid Members Share Posted June 10, 2015 Take the crusierweight division away and WCW was basically a retirement home for ex-WWF stars.Take what you like away because the bit in bold was what people watched WCW for. Vince boobed letting go of guys fans still wanted to see and WCW made the most of it. To call it a retirement home isn't completely fair either. WCW's success was built on the acquisition of two guys in the peak of their careers in an angle where they were portrayed as WWF stars but oddly became bigger stars and did more business than they ever would have in the WWF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crystal Maze Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 I think the addition of the likes of Hogan and Flair to WWE in 2002 showed that they still had life in them. Â The stigma at the time was that the older guys of WCW were past it. In hindsight they still had a lot to give, it's just that WCW had no clue how to use them. Â They should have used the older guys until contracts expired. Not loads but the best they could given constraints of creative control. Â And Goldberg... Should have been built as the unstoppable force that he had every right to be. He had a cracking match with Scott Steiner at Fall Brawl 2000 so there is no doubt he had more in him than the streak, but he's the champion to go with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam O'Rourke Posted June 14, 2015 Author Share Posted June 14, 2015 Just wanted to thank everybody for the responses, we got to a good few of them on the show, which is now available to listen to at the following link:  http://squaredcirclegazette.podbean.com/mf/web/khzvan/SCGRadio42-SavingWCWinOctober1999.mp3  We ended up taking a booking meeting approach - cutting the roster and talking pushes, talent, angles and feuds to change the product, evaluating all the issues WCW had at the time and the problems they were facing, as well as taking your suggestions on how to salvage a company spiralling downhill and heading for disaster at a pivotal time, and talking about whether or not it was beyond repair. A very fun show this week, check it out~! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobrydersrentboy Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 They should have introduced a legends title thought between the likes of hogan and flair and hart etc when they decided to elevate the younger guys into the world title picture.  People often say wcw failed because they didn't build there own stars but I disagree, I mean booker t, Steiner and Jarrett where good solid main event level guys they just never reached the piñacle a hogan or a flair could Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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