DJM Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 I cannot add much more to what has already been said about BJ Penn. He was terrible last night and really did not look like he wanted to be in the cage with Edgar. Â There were a few good performances outside of the main event: Drysdale made quick work of his opponent and is now 7-0 with all finishes in the opening 3-minutes of the first round. Derrick Lewis looks like a good addition of the HW division. He made quick work of his opponent as well, and is now 11-2 with 10 KO's. I have heard suggestions of a fight with Mitrione, which would work I guess. Corey Anderson and Eddie Gordon looked very good putting away Matt Van Buren (who really looked out of his element) and Dhiego Lima. Â I had heard talk of Justin Scoggins being the future of 125lb division, but he lost last night. He is only 22 though, so there is time for him to really improve and maybe live up the promise many saw in him in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members wandshogun09 Posted July 7, 2014 Author Paid Members Share Posted July 7, 2014 That reminds me, with all the talk of BJ Penn I completely forgot to mention how much I enjoyed the Scoggins vs Ortiz fight. I thought they should've definitely got FOTN. Way better fight than Issa vs Tuerxn IMO. Another example of Dana being anti-grappling. Oliveira vs Hioki was passed over for FOTN in New Zealand last week as well. Â Didn't see the Drysdale fight but read he looked great. Heard different things on the decision in the womens fight, from Dufresne got robbed to Moras was busier from the bottom. Anyone see it? Â At least Penn knows now that he's done. You wonder how longer his career would have lasted if he consistently looked after himself, instead of the way he seemed to slack off sometimes. Â Yeah, I said before the fight that it had the feel of Ricky Hatton's 2012 comeback to me. And the bit I've bolded in your post could be just as easily applied to Hatton as it can be to Penn. Â Â Pretty similar in that way. Although Hatton's comeback even in defeat had more of a feel-good vibe to it to me, because at least he was competitive before being stopped. It was kind of a redemption in that sense. With Penn it was just sad to watch. Â Another boxing comparison was one my mate at work said. He said it reminded him of Ali vs Holmes and I see the comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members wandshogun09 Posted July 9, 2014 Author Paid Members Share Posted July 9, 2014 Eddie Bravo; Â "BJ should continue to fight at 145. That crazy strategy should retire, not BJ. Kill the tip toe boxing stance. Kill the feet on hips guard. Kill the flat on the back defensive butterfly guard. 35 is not old. He's in amazing shape. He didn't lose because his body is breaking down. He lost the way he did because of that strange strategy. The whole world was confused. He should stay at 145, and fight a couple of mid-level guys to get his confidence back and I truly believe, with the correct/proper training camps, he can still beat some of the best at 145. And of course I would recommend an offensive clinching guard when on his back. Not one arm bar, Oma plata, Gogo plata, or triangle attempt by BJ. Vitor went after Jones off his back, Pettis went after Benson, Anderson went after Chael, even Tito went after Machida off his back, there's no reason BJ can't attack off his back. Just my opinion, I've never done MMA so what do I know, I could be way off." Â Seriously, what? There might never have been a clearer case of a guy who should retire than BJ Penn. The shot of his parents after the fight - when BJ hinted in the cage that he was done, the look of relief on his parents' faces said it all. Most importantly, BJ Penn himself sounded like he's finally accepted that it's over at the press conference. I know he's said it before but something tells me it'll stick this time. It really feels like the end more than the other times. Bravo is literally the only person I've seen say Penn should fight on. Maybe he should weaken the dose of whatever he's on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Seriously, what? There might never have been a clearer case of a guy who should retire than BJ Penn. The shot of his parents after the fight - when BJ hinted in the cage that he was done, the look of relief on his parents' faces said it all. Most importantly, BJ Penn himself sounded like he's finally accepted that it's over at the press conference. I know he's said it before but something tells me it'll stick this time. It really feels like the end more than the other times. Bravo is literally the only person I've seen say Penn should fight on. Maybe he should weaken the dose of whatever he's on. Maybe Bravo is onto something. We'll all know what's up if Penn starts training in LA anytime soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane O' Mac Version 2 Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Physically, Penn's in career-best shape. Mentally though, he's done. He was seemingly on the verge of tears as he entered the arena the other night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Physically, Penn's in career-best shape. Mentally though, he's done. He was seemingly on the verge of tears as he entered the arena the other night. I've never really followed Penn all that much, but who's he been training with? Does he train at an actual proper, respected fight camp? Or does he do everything himself, bringing people in and so on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane O' Mac Version 2 Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Well, for this last fight, he trained with Nova Uniao, Aldo and Barao's team. Incredibly skilled and hard working team. The only failing that team has is weight cutting, so Penn used Mike Dolce for that. I think historically, he's done his own thing, with obviously mixed results through the years. BJ has always had this crazy "fight anyone" mentality, and the core group of guys he's had through the years, the likes of Andre Pederneires, haven't been able to keep him level. In the modern era, he should have stayed at 155. I think 145 could have been in the cards at some point if the beatings and disappointments at 170 hadn't extinguished the flame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Yeah, if he's actually wanting to still compete (and it doesn't look like he does), he'd have to be prepared to actually mix things up. His BJJ has been non-existent of late, and his striking is shit. Â Can't see him coming back though, but if he did he'd need to completely revamp what he's been doing of late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members wandshogun09 Posted July 9, 2014 Author Paid Members Share Posted July 9, 2014 He only did the early part of his camp at Nova Uniao for this Edgar fight. Which is another reason I had a bad feeling about it. In fact, the last time I saw anything of him training at Nova was as far back as around February when Aldo and Barao had fights coming up at UFC 169. Apparently once BJ heard about Shogun getting robbed in Brazil he decided not to go back there. And from then on he did his own thing in Hawaii. Jason Parillo, JD Penn, apprarently did a bit of sparring with Uncle Creepy. Â I don't know if I'd even agree that it's all mental either. The mental bit is obviously a huge part of it but I don't think he's all there physically anymore either to be honest. Appearances can be deceptive. He looked good but who knows how he took the weight off. There's no guarantee he did it with some grueling strength and conditioning program. He's been looking skinny for ages, it could've mostly been down to diet. He's absolutely shot and I don't think any change in training is going to fix that. I've seen people going 'maybe if he comes back and fights some low level guys...'. But why? That's no Penn's style. Anyone who's a fan of Penn will know he's not going to be content with taking fights he knows he'll win. And if one of these 'lower level' guys beats him, then how shit of a farewell is it? At least Frankie Edgar is a top flight fighter. Â I really hope BJ listens to himself and 99% of what people are saying, and stays retired. What's the point carrying on. He's never looked so gun-shy on the feet, he's never looked so easy to takedown (another reason why I think the problems are physical as well as mental). Eddie Bravo's 'there was no armbars, no this and that' is all well and good, but 1) Edgar isn't going to be easy to catch, and 2) there's not a lot BJ doesn't know about BJJ, I'm sure Bravo could show up different stuff but it's not going to be the tipping point in meaning BJ can make a comeback. It's too late. This would be like Duke Roufus or Greg Jackson telling Chuck to carry on and expecting to teach him shoulder rolls and shit to protect his dead chin. Sometimes it's past the point of that. I'd hate to see BJ come back. Don't get me wrong, I'd still watch. Just like with Cro Cop. But I hope he doesn't ever come back. Â Speaking of retirement - it kind of went under the radar but Jens Pulver confirmed his retirement over the weekend as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnum Milano Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Speaking of retirement - it kind of went under the radar but Jens Pulver confirmed his retirement over the weekend as well. Hope he sticks to it this time. Really should've called it a day after the loss to Javi Vazquez in WEC four years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members wandshogun09 Posted July 9, 2014 Author Paid Members Share Posted July 9, 2014 Yeah, he even said himself that he should've retired after one of the Faber fights. I can see him and BJ Penn being next for the Hall Of Fame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Yeah, he even said himself that he should've retired after one of the Faber fights. I can see him and BJ Penn being next for the Hall Of Fame. Or facing each other on a WSOF card! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members wandshogun09 Posted July 9, 2014 Author Paid Members Share Posted July 9, 2014 Oh god, don't even joke about that. Although BJ is probably still technically tied to the UFC contractually. It's the same reason Randy Couture couldn't take a fight now even if he wanted to, because when he retired he still had fights remaining on his UFC deal. Â I wouldn't be surprised to see BJ pop up on a Metamoris show down the line though. That could be fun. Stick BJ Penn vs a Gracie on there or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted July 9, 2014 Paid Members Share Posted July 9, 2014 im slow getting to this as ive been tied up with shit... Â I've seen some depressing performances in MMA, the worst for me until Sunday night was Nogueira against Mir I, BJ Penn just exceeded that and then some. Â We can speculate on what the cause of that performance was all day, i think it was a combination of everything everyone's talked about...but i stick by my evaluation that BJ just can't fight through adversity, it's happened in pretty much every fight he's lost, he goes into his shell and just stops fighting. The sad thing about Sunday was it appeared to happen from the beginning and BJ appeared stuck in that weird fighting stance which had to be a part of some kind of gameplan that never came close to fruition. Â I think everyone got caught up in the hype beforehand despite it being a terrible comeback fight really, the fact that BJ was dropping to 145 and looked so good in pictures just had everyone getting their hopes up. A few years ago BJ took that fairly meaningless rematch with Jens Pulver (which was fun in the buildup), that's the kind of fight he should have been in Sunday night. A few times in MMA some of the former top guys hang around at top level for too long, i dont see why these guys can't drop down card a little and fight lower ranked opposition, it's as if their name value keeps them relevant when they really aint. The best example of this was Tito Ortiz in recent years, another is Frank Mir. Â Such a sad way for BJ to go out, the crowd still love him though. Â The rest of the card actually feels pretty irrelevant after seeing that despite it being short and pretty action packed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 Did anyone catch the post-fight presser? Seeing BJ break down was enough to bring a tear to a glass eye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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