UFC 167: St Pierre vs Hendricks

[David]

I was already fearing for St-Pierre after his knee injury, and it does look as though he's slowed down somewhat. Now there's chat of retirement. That's never a good sign.

[ColinBollocks]

I think people are seriously overrating Hendricks overall game, and underrating GSP's defensive boxing.

I'm in agreement. The UFC always do a great job of promoting GSP's challenger as better than they probably are; everybody is supposedly good enough to beat GSP but the bloke always seems to dominate.

 

It's foolish to bet against GSP, really. Such is his insane domination over others in the division. Like any fight, anything is possible, but if GSP sticks to his always solid game plan then you fancy him getting his arm raised.

 

Financially, GSP losing is probably the best for all concerned. Like Silva, GSP's drawing power isn't going to decrease with one loss and they'll get a lot more interest in GSP looking to gain revenge and his title back.

[jimufctna24]

Financially, GSP losing is probably the best for all concerned. Like Silva, GSP's drawing power isn't going to decrease with one loss and they'll get a lot more interest in GSP looking to gain revenge and his title back.

I get what you are saying.

 

The problem for the UFC that they can not avoid is that if Hendricks and Weidman become long term Champions, it will seriously hurt PPV business. Neither have any superstar appeal/potential, they do have Pettis who end up being a draw, but those two will not match what GSP and Anderson have done business wise, I am pretty certain.

 

The longer GSP keeps about, the better it is for Dana's finances. Anderson as well, and remember it took him years to become a name people would pay to see, and Chael Sonnen to help.

[ColinBollocks]

Of course that all hangs on GSP coming back and winning.

 

Although a Frankie Edgar situation is pretty unavoidable, as every great fighter slips.

[jimufctna24]

Of course that all hangs on GSP coming back and winning.

I am a bit of a cynic, if GSP does lose (which I doubt he will) I think he might hang them up, and if he does decide on a rematch, I fear he would lose that as well. Same rule applies to Anderson, my heart says he will in a few months, my head says we will see a changing of the guard.

 

My point generally is, when a fighter at the stage of the career that Anderson/GSP are at lose to a young upstart, they usually lose the rematch as well. I can only think of Ali/Spinks in combat sport that has gone against that rule, although I bet someone else has more examples.

[Dead Mike]

I'd love GSP to retire as champion. Having made his money, cleared out the division & leave on a high.

 

My point generally is, when a fighter at the stage of the career that Anderson/GSP are at lose to a young upstart, they usually lose the rematch as well.

 

Agreed. Although in Silva's case though it was him giving the fight away as opposed to 'being beat'. Had Weidman come out & dominated rather than Anderson pratting about & gifting Weidman the belt we may have seen the beginning of the end. I still think that 100% business mode Anderson will royally fuck up Weidman. It's going to awesome finding out!

[ColinBollocks]

I still think GSP has plenty left in him, if he can be bothered with training as hard as he has done for most of his career.

 

I can see Dana always trying to make it worth GSP's while to keep fighting if he's still winning and drawing mega money.

[jimufctna24]

I hope you are right Mike, the only thing that worries me is if Weidman consistently gets on top of Anderson, I did not like how Weidman was able to land shots and over-power Anderson in the first fight.

 

I also hope GSP retires as Champ, for me now he is the greatest MMA fighter ever in the sport. He has excelled on every level, the only real argument against him is his low finishing rate since 2008, which I can overlook.

[Dead Mike]

I still think GSP has plenty left in him, if he can be bothered with training as hard as he has done for most of his career.

 

I don't think that'd be a problem tbh. I remember hearing Joe Rogan talking about GSP saying how his conditioning was so good & that's why he altered his gameplans/fighting style, because he knew he could longer & harder than his opponents & would still be fine into the championship rounds. That he'd be on top of people & be trash talking to them while he was on top to further frustrate them.

[ColinBollocks]

Hopefully you're correct. Nothing worse than when a fighter gets complacent, as it's very hard to get that edge back.

 

I also hope GSP retires as Champ, for me now he is the greatest MMA fighter ever in the sport. He has excelled on every level, the only real argument against him is his low finishing rate since 2008, which I can overlook.

It's a silly argument, anyway, when you consider how dominate he has been in pretty much all of those matches. GSP has an unparalleled ability to execute a game plan to it's fullest potential, so he stays out of danger while completely nullifying his competition. Plus, he's unbelievably well rounded.

[jimufctna24]

It's a silly argument, anyway, when you consider how dominate he has been in pretty much all of those matches. GSP has an unparalleled ability to execute a game plan to it's fullest potential, so he stays out of danger while completely nullifying his competition. Plus, he's unbelievably well rounded.

I agree, but people will argue for Anderson and Fedor based on finishing rate, and being more exciting.

 

What annoys me the most is, if you watch GSP pre-2008, its not like he is incapable of some great knockouts and finishes. His submission win over Hughes in 2007, his KO of Jay Heiron and his KO over Hughes to win the best initially, are some cracking highlight reel stuff by any standard.

 

GSP also has more longevity than Fedor, and more diverse and quality opponents.

 

The fighters think GSP is best based on a recent poll, but hardcore fans will argue for Fedor until they are blue in the face.

[ColinBollocks]

It's all for naught, anyway. I can see either Jones or Velasquez winning this argument, in a few years.

[jimufctna24]

It's all for naught, anyway. I can see either Jones or Velasquez winning this argument, in a few years.

It will take more than a few years. Longevity is a key.

 

Plus, the dynamic of 170lbs means GSP has cleaned out a fresh batch of diverse challenges over the years repeatedly. Cain and Jones, may have to face the same faces over again, due to decent Heavies and LHW's not coming along as often.

 

You get tested more, and therefore proven more at 170lbs.

[wandshogun09]

I agree with Jim's post on the last page. Especially the bit about Condit's striking compared to Hendricks'. Condit is way less predictable and way more varied than Hendricks on the feet. Hendricks has one weapon. Granted, that one weapon is fucking awesome, but I don't see GSP just walking into a left hook. He's too smart a fighter and too much of a technician. I think. Hendricks can end the fight with one shot which always makes it interesting, but how likely is that one shot against someone like GSP?

 

Although I must say;

 

I was already fearing for St-Pierre after his knee injury, and it does look as though he's slowed down somewhat. Now there's chat of retirement. That's never a good sign.

 

I can't disagree with this line of thinking either and it's something that's kind of making me second guess my own logic. When you've got a dangerous opponent like Hendricks across the cage from you, and you're thinking about retirement, even if you think you're fully focused, it's a bit of a slippery slope IMO.

 

The UFC always do a great job of promoting GSP's challenger as better than they probably are; everybody is supposedly good enough to beat GSP but the bloke always seems to dominate.

 

Absolutely. This was especially true in the promotion for the Dan Hardy fight. That Primetime was one of the best propaganda jobs Zuffa have ever done. I remember reading all sorts of shit online about how Hardy was a killer striker and if he could just connect with one good shot, GSP would be on Fuckedsville, Blvd. They, and Hardy himself, did a hell of a job selling that fight and built up Hardy as a KO machine. Which if you look at his fights/record, he isn't.

 

Without looking up the numbers, that fight did good on PPV as I recall as well. I know GSP draws with everyone but in hindsight, that was probably the biggest drawing, biggest mismatch in UFC history.

 

Although in Silva's case though it was him giving the fight away as opposed to 'being beat'. Had Weidman come out & dominated rather than Anderson pratting about & gifting Weidman the belt we may have seen the beginning of the end. I still think that 100% business mode Anderson will royally fuck up Weidman. It's going to awesome finding out!

 

I'm not going to go on a long winded post (I'll save it for the 168 thread), but I'm still not having this. Anderson is a legend and a brilliant fighter. The best ever, IMO, as we type today. So I understand why people want to come up with different explanations for what happened in July. But the fact is, Weidman dominated the first round as well. And Anderson wasn't arsing about that round. He got taken down, elbowed up, punched, had to fend off submission attempts. Then got knocked out cold in round two. Yeah he showboated way too much but go back and watch him playing air guitar against Maia. Or taunting Forrest Griffin while he humiliated him. They couldn't do shit. Weidman did. Weidman beat Anderson. Dancing or not, Anderson did nothing to Weidman last time.

 

Where the really interesting thing about the rematch comes in for me is Weidman's cardio. He was gassing before the KO last time. If Anderson can make it a long fight I favour him. I'm not seeing this 'Anderson will just walk in and smash him easy' stuff though.

 

But yeah, 167, still with GSP on points.

[wandshogun09]

I liked this story from Chael about a recent phonecall he had with Hendo, asking him what he thought of Chael's chances against Rashad;

 

"I can beat Rashad, but he can beat me too. When I look at him, the first thing I thought about the Rashad fight was