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UFC 167: St Pierre vs Hendricks


Who wins and how?   

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TBH I've always considered those who consider GSP's lack of recent finishing as a criticism of his performance to be ignorant of the sport. Just casual 'just bleed' fans. As far as I'm concerned those 'fans' can fuck off & watch toughman contests or Kimbo KO clips on youtube.

I do not mind if someone says, "He is not my favorite to watch". I enjoy watching him due to his immense skill, but he is not the most adrenaline pumping fighter to watch at times, he is no prime Mike Tyson for example.


But when people start saying he is a crap fighter based on his fighting style, then yeah what you said.

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Exactly Jim. In any other sport it's a given that some games/bouts/frames might be less dynamic than others or that certain match-ups between teams/competitors might end up a stalemate. Yet in MMA there seems to be an element that doesn't seem to understand this? It's frustrating for a long-time fan like myself as I thought we'd gone past the 'booing when it goes to ground & suchlike' stage & people now understood the complexity, nuance & sheer skill involved in wrestling, grappling and clinch work.


I guess with every big PR push or event that the UFC do to bring in new fans there's an sense of starting again? Then again, the sheer popularity of the man suggests that these people may just be a vocal minority.

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Finishing fights would be beneficial obviously. And I'd be lying if I said there hasn't been times when I've been bored by him in recent years. But it's not the be all end all. Finishing fights is the aim and you can see he does try to finish (remember the Hardy fight?) so you can't criticise him too much. Especially when he's fighting guys like Diaz and Condit who pretty much never get finished. It's harsh. He's not my favourite fighter, I'm not even that big a fan to be honest, but he's one of the best MMA fighters of all time easy.


For me, he's #1 pound for pound right now. As of the moment Anderson got knocked out in July, I think GSP took the top spot. Jones can make a strong case but GSP has the longevity and he's consistently fought the very best in his division for years.

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Then again, the sheer popularity of the man suggests that these people may just be a vocal minority.

You are probably right


The gulf between GSP and any other UFC fighter in PPV drawing is massive. He ranges from around 700k to 1.3 Million depending on the opponent, consider that Jones and Anderson are usually between 300-500k with the one off 700k-900k, and you can see who the real drawing card is.


I also agree with Wand that he should be number 1 P4P, if he wins on Saturday, I would like to hear a argument against it. It annoys me when people rate Fedor above him, for me GSP is a much better WW than Fedor was a Heavyweight. GSP rules over a much more diverse and varied weightclass for a much longer period of time than Fedor. People bring up the Serra loss, but neglect to mention that Fedor got rocked by Fujita and almost finished by Rogers.


Only Anderson as of 2013 can challenge GSP in the greatest stakes in my book, Fedor is 3rd but under threat from Cain. Jones still has a bit of work to do.

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Agreed with all the above. Besides, GSP utilises a "boring" style because it gets him wins and a bigger purse. If people have a problem with that, they should be lambasting the more exciting fighters for not being good enough to beat his style and take the belt off him.

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Only Anderson as of 2013 can challenge GSP in the greatest stakes in my book, Fedor is 3rd but under threat from Cain. Jones still has a bit of work to do.


I'd have Jones above Cain myself. Cain is awesome but he still had that KO loss. Jones only loss was a DQ in a fight he was bossing against Hamill. And Jones has been more active and fights in a slightly deeper division. Cain's last five fights have been against two men, JDS and Bigfoot. That shows the lack of challengers. It's looking good for a bit with Werdum and the Barnett-Browne winner but when you look at the run Jones is on, and the way he's ran through everyone bar Gustafsson, and then the FOTY with Gus, I'd have to put Jones above Cain. It's ridiculous what he's been able to do such a short time.


I'd still rate Fedor over Cain in the all-time heavyweight talk as well. For now anyway. Say what you want about Fedor's record and the freakshow fights against Zulu and Choi, but he had a decade of dominance. And the Pride heavyweight division was superior to the UFC's at the time. Fedor completely outclassed Nogueira twice and Cro Cop. Either of which would likely have dominated the UFC heavyweight ranks at the time. They were at their peak and both scary as fuck, one a grappling monster the other a killer striker. And Fedor beat the grappler Nog on the ground once and on the feet once. And he won comfortably against Cro Cop.


Even with Fedor getting rocked by Fujita, Cain got rocked three times by Kongo.


Cain's only had one real competitor to date and that's JDS. He's conquered that. I believe he'll eventually surpass Fedor but it's going to take a bit more time IMO. If he schools Werdum, then beats say a Barnett, depending on how he does it, that might just top Fedor's reign of terror for me. Even with the KO loss on his record.

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Fedor had a short peak though, despite being ranked number 1 until 2010.


Mark Hunt showed that by 2006, Fedor had declined as he had some success on the ground against Fedor. Also, Arlovski was lighting up Fedor in 2009, until he got over excited and allowed Fedor a opening. Look at how Rogers highlighted Fedor's striking faults as well, popping him with a straight jab, and also had periods of overpowering him on the ground.


Fedor's last great performance was 2005 against Cro Cop, I can not fault him really from 2003-2005, he was the best HW in the world clearly. But the only real decent Heavyweights about were Big Nog, Cro Cop and Barnett, 2 of which he beat if I am honest. Cain has beaten Big Nog, JDS, Lesnar and Big Foot, they are pretty equal to Fedor's resume on paper (the Big Nog who Fedor beat was the best version if I am fair). People will say Tim Sylvia, but I do not regard that as a great win, just a decent notch, as Sylvia was never really a top 5 HW.


GSP beat batch after batch of great WW's. The Hughes, Penn, Serra and Karo era, the Fitch, Kos and Alves era, and now he has beaten Condit, Diaz and may add Hendricks to the list on Saturday, that is 3 era's of great WW,s he is on the cusp of seeing of. No freak shows, or pro wrestlers, just constant world class operators presenting a variety of challenges.


By 2011 Fedor was a shadow of his 2004 self, as Big Foot showed, the Werdum fight could have happened to anyone if I am fair, but Big Foot and Hendo showed Fedor was a declining fighter. Fedor at his 2004 best would polish those 2 off. Fedor did not have the longevity some think he did. The signs were there in the Lindland and Hunt fights that he was slowing down in 2006/2007.


I have Jones and Cain level, maybe a another win or so for Cain and I will put him ahead of Fedor.

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Hopefully, if the missus keeps quiet and doesn't want me to do anything today, after I've washed up, I'm gonna get on all 3 Primetimes, watch the Press Conference and the Weigh-In's and then throw in the 20 Year documentary ahead of tonights fights.


Hoping for a Hendricks KO. I'm not 1 that says GSP sucks or anything, but the majority of his fights have been boring and he fucked up my boy Koscheck's eye (in a fight Koscheck clearly won!!! :p ) so I'm all over a Hendricks KO tonight.


Plus, let's not forget, the real #1 Welterweight is fighting tonight also



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By 2011 Fedor was a shadow of his 2004 self, as Big Foot showed, the Werdum fight could have happened to anyone if I am fair, but Big Foot and Hendo showed Fedor was a declining fighter. Fedor at his 2004 best would polish those 2 off. Fedor did not have the longevity some think he did.


He did have the longevity though. It's not a question of what people think. It's a fact that from when his MMA career started in 1999 or whenever, he never had a legitimate loss until 2010 when he fought Werdum. Sure there were a few scares and moments along the way but for the most part Fedor wrecked everyone put in front of him for 10 years. That's an amazing achievement whatever the era or opposition, in a sport as wild as MMA. Especially when you factor in that Fedor was an undersized heavyweight as well.


I don't think it's fair to hold the losses post-2010 too heavily against him. When people talk about Ali, they don't downgrade him for the Berbick and Holmes losses. Chuck Liddell and Matt Hughes are no less of legends because of their losses at the end either. Every fighter declines eventually. One day Cain will be an old fighter and some big young bastard will be beating him down like Cain did to a battleworn Nogueira. It's the nature of combat sports.


Ideally, Fedor would have come to the UFC in 2009 and fought Brock or whoever. But people need to understand, the Pride division was were the best heavyweights were in Fedor's prime. And he fought the two best of that bunch and beat them both.


The stuff in your post about the Hunt and Arlovski fights is correct (although I've always thought the Hunt stuff was a bit overblown myself, Fedor was in a bad position but never looked close to being tapped). But he still won those fights. You wouldn't question GSP's greatness because Condit nearly knocked him out. Or Jones because Belfort got him in an armbar. Or Mayweather because he got dropped by old man Shane Mosley. Things like that just happen in fights sometimes. It's how the guy deals with it that tells you what they're made of.


I agree with the GSP bit in your post 100%. His dominance has spanned a few eras and he's avenged the only losses on his record in style. He's also fought pretty much every type of fighter there is and often beats them at their own game.


Weigh in results;


MAIN CARD (Pay-per-view, 10 p.m. ET)

Georges St-Pierre (170) vs. Johny Hendricks (170)

Rashad Evans (205) vs. Chael Sonnen (206)

Robbie Lawler (170) vs. Rory MacDonald (171)

Josh Koscheck (170) vs. Tyron Woodley (171)

Ali Bagautinov (126) vs. Timothy Elliott (125)


PRELIMINARY CARD (FOX Sports 1, 8 p.m. ET)

Donald Cerrone (155) vs. Evan Dunham (156)

Ed Herman (186) vs. Thales Leites (186)

Brian Ebersole (171) vs. Rick Story (170)

Edwin Figueroa (135) vs. Erik Perez (135)


PRELIMINARY CARD (MMAjunkie.com, 6:30 p.m. ET)

Jason High (170) vs. Anthony Lapsley (170)

Will Campuzano (135) vs. Sergio Pettis (135)

Cody Donovan (205) vs. Gian Villante (205)






Full weigh in;



Dana White one hour media scrum;



Q & A - Royce Gracie, Mark Coleman, Dan Severn & Art Jimmerson!;



Chael Sonnen media scrum;



Mark Coleman media scrum;



I haven't watched most of this myself yet but thought it would be of interest to someone. I was just watching the Rashad Evans scrum, it's really good. Love his story of watching UFC 1. But they cut to fucking Johny Hendricks hitting pads halfway through and you can barely hear Rashad for the last part of the video. He was saying something about meeting Rampage recently as well but I only heard bits of it. Sounds like they're on better terms these days.


Also, people who think Chael is an arrogant prick should watch his scrum above. When he's out of promoting mode and he strips away all the hype bullshit, he comes across as one of the soundest fuckers in the sport. He was the same on Joe Rogan's podcast last year.


Anyway, from the scrum, Chael on his win over Shogun;


"I didn't think I would submit him. I don't think Shogun was ready to go that night. I think he was too much of a sportsman to make any excuses, unlike most guys. I think he let me have my moment, but I don't think that was the real Shogun that I faced. But I did have some good spots in that match. I also had some things that I've got to work on and make sure I don't do again."


You never hear fighters talk like that usually. He's pretty much gone out of his way to give Shogun his props even though he kind of diminishes his own biggest career win in the process. I think he's being a bit harsh on himself actually. Whether Shogun was right or not, Chael did pretty much everything right that night. And I gave him no chance of finishing Shogun going in.

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Agreed. I wouldn't read much into what GSP said post-fight either, it's similar to what Anderson said after the loss to Weidman. If I had to guess, the rematch will probably be May next year, the Memorial Day weekend usually being a big one for the UFC.


Pretty good show. No one fight was especially amazing, and being the 20th anniversary show I was hoping for something a bit more epic, but the main event delivered and definitely has some newsworthy stuff coming out of it. Other thoughts:


* Glad Rashad vs Chael ended early. It seemed like neither man's heart was in it, and given the magnitude of the win, Rashad looked very dejected afterwards for pummeling his mate. With this, and the Machida/Munoz fight, I'm starting to become very anti-friends/training partners fighting each other, because it seems like despite what they say, they can't separate their personal connection from their professional life, and we don't see the fighters at their best.


* Also happy that Lawler got the win over Evil Rory. I don't see how it was a split, thought Lawler clearly had rounds 1 and 3. Would have loved to see a stoppage, Rory is just incredibly weird and unlikable.


* Damn! Woodley's KO of Koscheck was sick! Very fun one rounder.


* On the prelims... I wish Cerrone could stay at that form, but he tends to look incredible against the mid-tier and stumble every time he fights top 10 guys.

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