UFC 167: St Pierre vs Hendricks

[jimufctna24]

Who's everyone picking for Chael vs Rashad? That's the toughest one to call on the card for me. I think I'm leaning towards Rashad but he's so inconsistent these days who knows how he'll show up.

In general Rashad should win, he is the better athlete, quicker and more slicker boxer. But Chael is on better form, he looked like a beast against Shogun, and will be the bigger man come fight night.

 

Rashad can have problems with bigger wrestlers, in 2007 Tito Ortiz took 2 rounds of him and got a draw, and Jon Jones's size meant Rashad could not do much against him. Plus Rashad has been sub-par as of late, but he did get his arse in gear to snatch victory from Hendo last time out.

 

Its a tough one, I may pick Chael to edge it on points, due to control, as he is the bigger man and is a good control merchant.

[wandshogun09]

It's really hard to call isn't it.

 

Even with Chael looking awesome against Shogun, how much of that is down to Shogun's decline? I guess we won't get answers there until we see how Shogun looks in Australia in a few weeks.

 

And in fairness to Rashad, regarding the first Tito fight - Rashad is a vastly better fighter now than he was then. Although he seems to not show up with his A game for some fights, he's way better at everything than he was in 2007. When he's on point his wrestling is still top notch, as he showed in completely shutting down Rampage and outwrestling the bigger, better wrestler Phil Davis. His striking is better than it was in 2007 as well. His timing looks better, he moves better, even just physically he looks better. You look at his physique against Tito and Bisping in 2007 and compare it to how he looked against Tito the second time in 2011.

 

Rashad at UFC 78 weigh ins;

 

Rashad at UFC 133 weigh ins;

 

And he was pretty much just a straight wrestler from the time he came off TUF 2 up until about 2007. He didn't start really showing improved striking until after he killed Chuck's chin. He had the Sean Salmon head kick before that but he was almost exclusively wrestling guys to decisions around that time. He's way more well rounded now.

 

Just seems like he comes into some fights and freezes for whatever reason. I'm a big fan of Little Nog but there's no real reason I can think of why Rashad didn't win that fight. He just got in the cage and when his first attempts at wrestling were fended off, he just seemed to lose interest. Same against Jones to a lesser extent. He seems to just freeze if he can't get some early success.

 

Then other fights like the second Tito fight, the Davis fight, Liddell, Forrest, Rampage, he looks like a big time quality fighter. I thought he looked good against Hendo as well.

 

We'll see. One thing about Chael, he's consistent. Not in terms of wins and losses maybe, but in terms of his own performance. You know what you're getting with Chael. He always shows up in fantastic shape and he always cuts a fast pace. It's up to the opponent to either deal with it like Jones and Silva did, and Bisping did to a point, which is easier said than done. Or they'll wilt under the relentless pace like Shogun and Stann.

 

It could turn into another stalemate but I'm really intrigued by this fight style-wise. The first round might be the deciding factor IMO, I can see it being a real struggle for dominance and whoever comes out on top will set the tempo for the rest of the fight.

 

If they both come in on point, I like Rashad on points. I think he's got slightly more variety and he's faster. But it's pretty much a tossup.

[jimufctna24]

Good point, I forgot about the Phil Davis fight. However, Sonnen is more of a aggressive wrestler than Davis, much more of a grinder. Sonnen will come out full blast and turn it into a dog fight, and if they get close up I think Sonnen has the strength and size to bully Rashad around.

 

It is also forgotten Sonnen is not a bad boxer, not the best, but he can get by. I felt he out-boxed Bisping in the 1st round of their bout, and Bisping is a really good striker.

 

Either way we will see, I am not sure who to pick as of right now.

[ColinBollocks]

It all comes down to whether Rashad can cope with Sonnen's elite level MMA wrestling. Very few men have the ability to cope with what Sonnen brings, even when you know what you're in for. Sonnen doesn't sit back, he's coming for you and won't stop until you're on your back.

 

Evans is no scrub, of course, but like wand I'm interested to see how he copes with the pace Sonnen always sets. Both men train to win, but you feel Evans has more pressure on him to win this.

[hbk4life]

I think Evans will win on points or even manage to get a TKO on Sonnen, it's pretty much a 50/50 fight though. The wrestling could be pretty even, but I think Rashad will edge the fight with his striking. It's tough to pick Rashad with that performance against Little Nog still fresh in my mind but this will be a totally different style of fight. Sonnen will be pushing a relentless pace and force Rashad to fight for 15 minutes, it could bring out the best in him.

[lambyUK]

It really is a fascinating fight and its really a shame they are good friends as if there was animosity the build up could have been superb. However, as mentioned, the fight truly is a fascinating matchup. Evans seems to believe he has the speed advantage but it really depends where he sees this? Yes, Evans has the faster hands, but Sonnen pushes a more relentless pace. If Sonnen can close the distance he will punish Evans against the cage and possibly on the floor. If he can't Rashad will out box Sonnen and possibly get the KO.

 

Rashad is the most natural athlete but Chaels work rate is really what sets him apart. I just hope Sonnen's mind is truly on this fight. You could argue that despite the fight not being set, all the build up to the shogun fight was all Wanderlei too and Chael produced a career best performance.

 

Rashad needs a win far more than Chael here though.

[wandshogun09]

Yeah, them being friends has put a bit of a dampner on the hype for the fight. They've both said in the media that they've been overshadowed by the main event and the 20th anniversary stuff, but it hasn't helped create interest when they're both saying stuff like 'if I'd had my way, I'd rather not have fought this guy. But we're businessmen, we'll do it anyway.' They've both said stuff like that in the last week. While I admire the honesty, it's hard to look forward or get too excited for a fight when the two guys are saying they don't really want to fight each other.

 

Still, they're both competitive and the old wrestler pride will mean they'll both want to let the other know who the man is. I think it'll be a surprisingly enjoyable fight and it's pretty much 50/50 on picking a winner so that helps. I'm looking forward to it more the closer it gets.

[wandshogun09]

Johny Hendricks is still bleating on calling GSP a cheat;

 

"Have you seen him in the last two months? He shrank a little bit, hasn't he? Realistically, I don't know. I saw him on the press tour. The only thing I know is whenever I step into the Octagon, do I still have a six-pack? ... Everybody bloats a little bit. You don't put a little water in your system without bloating. You don't put 20 pounds of water in your system without bloating.

[lambyUK]

To be fair Wand Hendricks is right here though. As he mentions he initially requested WADA but GSP ended up going the VADA route. What's the point in going along with a sub par organisation when the standard testing is probably just as effective? On top of that, what's Hendricks to gain from marching to the beat of GSPs drum? In the ebd, its GSP who has always been tarred with the cheat brush, not him.

[wandshogun09]

Maybe. The whole thing kind of feels to me like Hendricks is setting up a pre-fight, ready made excuse to fall back on though. Especially this bit;

 

"If he needs that to beat me, I got beat by the drug."

 

And lets be clear here, there is absolutely zero facts out there to prove GSP is a cheat. The whole thing is based on GSP's physique, which if we're going the route of ripped physique = steroid cheat then what about flabby 2002 Josh Barnett? Or 2009 Kiril 'Baby Fedor' Sidelnikov. There has never been even a hint of an issue with drug testing regarding GSP. Now I know that doesn't 100% prove he's totally clean. As we know there are certain things the commission doesn't test for. But that goes for everyone in the sport, not just GSP. And he's passed every test he's been given. It's innocent until proven guilty surely, and until GSP fails a test, all these accusations are pure hearsay.

 

I don't know all the ins and outs of VADA or WADA or any of the alphabet soup drug testing groups. So I can't give much comment there. But whether VADA isn't as good as WADA or not, it's still further testing than the athletic commissions do. And GSP didn't have to do it. He could've just kept quiet. He certainly wasn't obligated to offer to pay for Hendricks' testing as well. Yet Hendricks goes 'no I don't want that one I want WADA'. Like a kid who's moaning about getting a PS4 instead of an Xbox One.

 

And as for Hendricks saying this;

 

"I don't need drugs to win. I've proven that."

 

When has he proven it? Now I'm not saying he's using anything. He's not a guy I'd suspect in any way. But he says he's proven that he doesn't need drugs to win. Okay when? When the commissions test him? These tests apparently aren't good enough when GSP passes them but when Hendricks passes them they're 100% concrete proof that he doesn't need drugs to win? Double standards going on here. There is as much proof out there that Hendricks is a cheat as there is to prove that GSP is. None.

 

Hendricks is just being a div. He can't come up with an original way to talk shit, promote the fight/himself or whatever so he jumps on the 'GSP is on steroids' bandwagon.

[Dead Mike]

Meh, all Hendricks is doing is playing the 'trash talk' game that so many lap up. As long as people are talking about him he's achieved his goal.

 

I'm still picking GSP to put a teaching on him, smother him & frustrate him all the way into the championship rounds. After that all this shit talking rubbish will be long forgotten.

[ColinBollocks]

Say GSP does what he usually does and dominates without being spectacular, is he back to being the P4P best? Or are we still rating him well behind Silva/Jones/Velasquez?

[Dead Mike]

Define 'spectacular'? Many consider completely controlling a top opponent for 5 rounds pretty impressive. I'd class that a far bigger achievement than landing a big KO punch in the first minute. I don't think anyone puts GSP currently 'far behind' any of those names you mentioned tbh, especially Valasquez!

[ColinBollocks]

Define 'spectacular'? Many consider completely controlling a top opponent for 5 rounds pretty impressive. I'd class that a far bigger achievement than landing a big KO punch in the first minute. I don't think anyone puts GSP currently 'far behind' any of those names you mentioned tbh, especially Valasquez!

I fully agree (you'll find me lavishing praise on GSPs style in this very thread), but I'm sure you're aware that the lack of finishing and the sensible game plan has people doubting GSPs credentials, when you have Jones/Silva knocking people out. It's why I think it's an interesting topic.

[Dead Mike]

TBH I've always considered those who consider GSP's lack of recent finishing as a criticism of his performance to be ignorant of the sport. Just casual 'just bleed' fans. As far as I'm concerned those 'fans' can fuck off & watch toughman contests or Kimbo KO clips on youtube.