The Official UKFF RAW Thread...

[Sphinx]

I genuinely believe I'd have rolled my eyes at it live. I'm not a complete misery guts, just I've seen so much shit like that before. I was hoping someone would post that multiple butterfly suplexes GIF too.

 

That whole sequence is a blur. It's mad that they've been in the business so long and still don't understand it well. The Davey Richards fans I did know now say he's shit too.

[FUM]

I still think Ambrose will be the biggest deal of the three, eventually. It will take a few years for the crowd to get to know him, and there'll maybe be one or two false dawns along the way, but he'll be huge when the penny finally drops. I see his career arc being similar to Punk's with the potential to peak higher; his Straight Edge Society phase will be amazing. Reigns has undeniable presence and poise but I don't think he has the range to be much more than the new Batista, although I think he can be much better than Batista (and I liked Batista plenty when he wasn't being a bore).

 

I just don't like Rollins and his whiney voice and shit hair, though. For all his bumping he's never seemed as convincing in the role of missionary mercenary as the other two. Something about a lanky streak of piss like him wearing those army boots turns me right off.

 

I get the impression he'll be unbearable as a face and all. He can do one after the split.

 

This reads like it's a negative.

[PunkStep]

I kept reading that and thinking 'But Batista was a much bigger star than Punk is/was/probably will be'.

[Mr Lawrence]

So a guy completely no-selling a fucking huge bump like a top rope suplex, only to get up and suplex the other guy to the outside is quality? It's awful, defies logic and exposing.

 

No, I wouldn't have been in awe of that had I seen it live, but thanks for making that assumption (albeit incorrectly) about me.

I honestly wasnt on about you. But doesnt 90% of wrestling defy logic? Why is this wirse than super cena comebacks?

[air_raid]

But doesnt 90% of wrestling defy logic?

 

CONTEXT. That sequence defies even wrestling logic. Wrestling logic is that if you get suplexed from the top rope, it hurts and debilitates you. Ideally to the point you aren't really capable of getting straight back up and suplexing your opponent. It's fabulously moronic and renders the superplex something you can just shrug off and go back on the offence immediately like a shoulder block or a dropkick.

[Mr Lawrence]

But doesnt 90% of wrestling defy logic?

 

CONTEXT. That sequence defies even wrestling logic. Wrestling logic is that if you get suplexed from the top rope, it hurts and debilitates you. Ideally to the point you aren't really capable of getting straight back up and suplexing your opponent. It's fabulously moronic and renders the superplex something you can just shrug off and go back on the offence immediately like a shoulder block or a dropkick.

 

What about Hulkster kicking out of Bob Ortons Superplex of the top rope, hulking up, irish whip, big boot then the pin? Does he know how to work? CONTEXT:

[PunkStep]

Dont' recall the match in question with that finish, but did Hogan sell it first, take a two count, then make a comeback? Or did he just stand right up and suplex Orton over the top like nothing happened?

[Mr Lawrence]

Warrior kicking out of 5 big elbows, Taker kicking out of sledgehammer shots.....wrestling logic? CONTEXT: THERES NO SUCH THING ASXLOGIC IN WRESTLING. Thats why its good.

[PunkStep]

Warrior kicking out of 5 big elbows, Taker kicking out of sledgehammer shots.....wrestling logic?

Your examples are just proving the fact that Richards/Edwards spot is a joke! Kicking out=they sold it in the first place!

[Mr Lawrence]

Dont' recall the match in question with that finish, but did Hogan sell it first, take a two count, then make a comeback? Or did he just stand right up and suplex Orton over the top like nothing happened?

Theres been numerous times when hogan took a move and got up before the person who did the move and no sold it. If i could be arsed id look on yt and post links but you know its happened as well as i do.

[Mr Lawrence]

Dont' recall the match in question with that finish, but did Hogan sell it first, take a two count, then make a comeback? Or did he just stand right up and suplex Orton over the top like nothing happened?

Theres been numerous times when hogan took a move and got up before the person who did the move and no sold it. If i could be arsed id look on yt and post links but you know its happened as well as i do.

 

Randy Savage elbow of the top rope to Hogan on the first wwf tour in london. Hogan takes the elbow and stands right up after, no cover involved at all from what i remember. Wrestling logic?

[Mr Lawrence]

Warrior kicking out of 5 big elbows, Taker kicking out of sledgehammer shots.....wrestling logic?

Your examples are just proving the fact that Richards/Edwards spot is a joke! Kicking out=they sold it in the first place!

Ha ha ha, warrior sold 5 elbow drops for 2 seconds, thats fine then. Wrestling logic has now been preserved.

[PunkStep]

Are you just going to try and find examples of no-selling from the past thirty years (whether they've been accepted or condemned) just to try and prove a point that the spot we're actually talking about in the first place isn't awful?

[Sphinx]

No, no, that's not right. There's an art to wrestling. To say there's no logic is to completely piss over it. There's a reason some things work and some don't. The aim is to suspend the audience's disbelief. The audience are willing to accept Irish Whips and are willing to accept the character of The Undertaker being abnormally tough. Him being supernatural is something they're willing to suspend their disbelief for if it's dressed up properly. You cross the line when you have people landing on their heads and getting up and lariating someone for the hell of it. There are times where no selling is acceptable. Sometimes it's used in Japan as their wrestling is into that 'fire' and intensity. But I think that is in tune with the Japanese culture and doesn't translate as well to over here. Like how Western movies have differences to how a story is told than a lot of Japanese movies. I'm not the best person to talk about Puro, but that's how it came across to me anyhow.

 

Basically, you start doing that shit and everything becomes a blur. When Taker gets hit with a sledgehammer, he'll sell it, opponent will give time fof the audience to breathe, take it in, worry Taker won't be able to kick out and then when he does, react. That sequence is a blur. No place for the audience to do any of that. It's a visual spectacle but ultimately means nothing and is detrimental.

 

Edit: you know what Hogan would have done after standing up? I don't even have to look up the video. He'd have stood up and soaked it in with the crowd. He'd have built until doing the next part - likely the comeback. I haven't seen the video and I'm not keen on finishers being dealt with that way, but I imagine they played the crowd better.

Edited November 1, 2013 by Sphinx

[d-d-d-dAz]

Someone give Sphinx a medal for actually getting it.

 

Wrestling is just stories, low-brow panto stories, but stories nonetheless. And, like all stories, logic only matters in so far as it must be matched with character. If Luke Skywalker wofts a lightsabre it's fine, if Tosh from The Bill uses one it's a bit mental.

 

The Undertaker has the character, as does Cena, whereby there super human feats are justifiable. Those indie twerps can't even spell character. They do things just because.