UFC 158: 'St Pierre vs Diaz'

[David]

I would like to add my name to the people who think GSP may have some added assistance. It could all be sour grapes, but when some insiders think between 70-80 per cent get added help, I do not see why GSP would not be part of that.

Added assistance like what, though? There's no doubt that St-Pierre will have people on his team who will ensure that he has access to the very best that sports science has to offer. If you're suggesting illegal drugs such as anabolic steroids, then I think you're just plain wrong. The guy has carefully and meticulously built a brand. We don't really get to see it as much because we're based in the UK, but have you ever been to Canada? Try finding a major sports retailer that doesn't have St-Pierre advertising in their stores. The amount of times I saw his face on my travels to Canada compare with the kind of coverage that Wayne Rooney would get in the UK. The guy is fucking huge.

 

He's huge box office in Canada whenever he fights, making millions of dollars every year alongside his marketing outside the cage. I'm not even taking into account his numerous and financially lucrative non-MMA related investment & business portfolio that word has it that he has.

 

He's way too smart to risk any of that on something as boneheaded as steroids. The guy is a superb athlete, and when you couple that with the very best in nutrition and sports science you get what you'll see tonight in the cage.

 

If anything he would have been more prone to such allegations before he fought Condit, coming back from a serious knee injury.

 

Two of the guys who have accused him in Diaz and Penn are maybe bitter but they do have a leg to stand on (unless you bring up their pot use) both are from a PED or HGH point of view two of the cleanest in the sport.

Two of the cleanest in the sport? They're no cleaner than anyone else who hasn't tested positive for those substances. Diaz is no cleaner than St-Pierre in that respect, although one man has been caught using illegal substances and banned on two occasions, whilst the other hasn't.

[jimufctna24]

Added assistance like what, though? There's no doubt that St-Pierre will have people on his team who will ensure that he has access to the very best that sports science has to offer. If you're suggesting illegal drugs such as anabolic steroids, then I think you're just plain wrong. The guy has carefully and meticulously built a brand. We don't really get to see it as much because we're based in the UK, but have you ever been to Canada? Try finding a major sports retailer that doesn't have St-Pierre advertising in their stores. The amount of times I saw his face on my travels to Canada compare with the kind of coverage that Wayne Rooney would get in the UK. The guy is fucking huge.

Nope, never been to Canada, I know he is massive there though.

 

So was Lance Armstrong in America as Kevin Iole pointed out yesterday. If Armstrong can get away with it, why would GSP be any different. I have no proof at all GSP has indulged, I am just saying I think there is a possibility that he has indulged at some point. I listened to a podcast a few years back from the Sherdog crew who have been around the sport since the late 90's, they have several contacts and are friends with many fighters. They estimate that around 70-80 per cent are on some sort of PED's. The system is faulty in certain areas in detecting drugs, Canada being a perfect one as Iole again pointed out yesterday. If anyone in MMA has the resources to cheat a test it is GSP.

 

BJ and Nick I believe are clean as the come when it comes to performance enhancers. They have such a bile for the stuff like Bas Rutten I would find it hard to believe they would use the stuff.

 

Besides David, you should love all this as your public enemy number 1 Dana White is being exposed as a right tit this week when answering questions on this subject.

[wandshogun09]

I suspect Jim is on about HGH which isn't tested for. I won't accuse GSP because as you say, we can't know. If he doesn't fail tests (which he never has) then you have to assume he's innocent until he's proven guilty.

 

It doesn't mean he's 100% clean though. Overeem had never failed a drug test until he started being subjected to random testing. And guys like Wandy and Cro Cop never failed a test but it didn't stop people accusing them.

 

It's a bit of a pointless debate because it's 100% speculation. Jim can't know for sure GSP has cheated and you can't say for sure he hasn't. But all we know is, for the banned substances they test for - he is clean.

 

Have to echo the GSP/Canada stuff. It's mental. My aunt lives in Canada, she's 54 and she knows exactly who GSP is like my Mom would know David Beckham. When I was there at Christmas she had friends over, all women 45+, and they all knew about GSP. He's everywhere over there. Everyone knows him. My Mom could pass Bisping in the street and wouldn't have a clue.

[jimufctna24]

It's a bit of a pointless debate because it's 100% speculation. Jim can't know for sure GSP has cheated and you can't say for sure he hasn't. But all we know is, for the banned substances they test for - he is clean.

Its is pointless about GSP in specific so I will leave that, but not about the sport as a whole.

 

Iole I thought was very direct with Dana yesterday and raised some valuable points that Dana should take on board. I like Dana, but if he expects to be able to shout people down and therefore automatically win the debate, he is very much mistaken. His bullying tactics on Helwani will not work either.

[David]

I suspect Jim is on about HGH which isn't tested for. I won't accuse GSP because as you say, we can't know. If he doesn't fail tests (which he never has) then you have to assume he's innocent until he's proven guilty.

 

It doesn't mean he's 100% clean though. Overeem had never failed a drug test until he started being subjected to random testing. And guys like Wandy and Cro Cop never failed a test but it didn't stop people accusing them.

The case with HGH isn't simply that the UFC refuse to test for it, it's not tested for in sports like the NFL & MLB yet. It's a testing procedure that is still in its infancy as things stand, although this will obviously change over time.

 

And you're right, it doesn't mean he's 100% clean, but it doesn't mean that Penn, Diaz or anyone else is 100% clean either. To make claims based on nothing more than a guys physical appearance is ridiculous to be honest (not that you personally did that).

 

Iole I thought was very direct with Dana yesterday and raised some valuable points that Dana should take on board. I like Dana, but if he expects to be able to shout people down and therefore automatically win the debate, he is very much mistaken. His bullying tactics on Helwani will not work either.

It remains to be seen if the tactics employed by White will work. If Iole and Helwani start seeing themselves pushed to the outside when it comes to access to UFC fighters and to Dana himself for those all-important "exclusive" interviews then we'll see what happens.

 

We've seen what happened to Sherdog when they crossed Dana.

 

EDIT: Just for the record, I fully agree with Dana in this instance. The UFC have no obligation to test anyone when the athletic commission is already taking care of it.

[wandshogun09]

The case with HGH isn't simply that the UFC refuse to test for it, it's not tested for in sports like the NFL & MLB yet. It's a testing procedure that is still in its infancy as things stand, although this will obviously change over time.

 

Yeah I wasn't singling the UFC out. I just meant if guys have the money and desire, HGH is an option and because it's not tested for right now, they'll pass tests despite cheating. Not accusing GSP but it's not impossible either.

 

To make claims based on nothing more than a guys physical appearance is ridiculous to be honest (not that you personally did that).

 

Kiril "Baby Fedor" Sidelnikov proves this point. He tested for steroids on one of the Affliction cards and he was no Overeem, more Overweight.

 

Penn, Diaz and Bas would surprise me. Not because of appearance but their attitude. They're of the view that you're mentally weak and less of a man if you need steroids.

[David]

Penn, Diaz and Bas would surprise me. Not because of appearance but their attitude. They're of the view that you're mentally weak and less of a man if you need steroids.

Lance Arsmtrong was outspoken against drug use as well, wasn't he?

[jimufctna24]

Sort of. He made light of accusations by shooting commercials about the issue.

 

Armstrong concentrated more using scare tactics by suing people who accused him. The logic of "there is no smoke without fire" is usually very flawed, but in the case of Overeem and others it has proven to be true. Judging on physical presence is flawed though I agree.

 

Dana using scare tactics and bullying ways to scare media may end the same way as Armstrong. It is a shitty way to conduct public relations, there are ways of challenging people about things by shouting abusively at people. It will only make some media outlets slag him off more.

[wandshogun09]

OK Dave, fair enough you got me there

 

Still, I'd be surprised. There's just something about the way they talk about PEDs, you can tell they're passionate about it. Bas especially over the years, he looks at steroids as a disadvantage if anything.

 

GSP might be totally clean, but the way he sometimes reacts when the subject comes up comes across overly defensive sometimes. Maybe he's just sick of talking about it or maybe it's a touchy subject.

 

There may well be some truth to the accusations but I do think a lot of the accusations levelled at GSP are solely based on his physique, which doesn't necessarily mean he's cheating.

[cutch]

Bas Rutten got popped for pain killers, some people need steroids to recover from an injury quicker, Bas needed to take pain killers or he probably wouldn't have been able to take that WFA fight, so who is to say if he would have taken steroids during his prime.

 

He used to defend Overeem all the time until he left his mates at Golden Glory and Kimbo as well after he stopped training with him, so he can be as two faced as anyone in MMA.

[jimufctna24]

Bas Rutten got popped for pain killers, some people need steroids to recover from an injury quicker, Bas needed to take pain killers or he probably wouldn't have been able to take that WFA fight, so who is to say if he would have taken steroids during his prime.

 

He used to defend Overeem all the time until he left his mates at Golden Glory and Kimbo as well after he stopped training with him, so he can be as two faced as anyone in MMA.

Bas did not get popped for anything.

 

The Cali athletic commission messed up.

 

http://www.fightopinion.com/2007/04/05/bas...ac-drug-report/

 

Bas claims to have video footage to clear him. Also, he only gave Kimbo a slagging after Kimbo had been reported as saying negative stuff about him.

[wandshogun09]

I never said I'd rule anyone out completely from using PEDs but I'd be surprised at certain guys that's all.

 

I wouldn't say Bas is two-faced though. There was a lot to the Overeem/GG situation which Bas went into detail on in that big article around a year or so ago.

 

And he wasn't going to come out and knock Kimbo while he was training him was he. They trained together and it didn't work out. It happens.

 

In both cases he's simply stated his opinions based on his history with both. Even after the Bigfoot loss he was saying he thought Overeem could "come back from this". Its not like he was sneaking about slagging them off, his criticism of them has been in public. And I haven't seen Reem or Kimbo get too arsey about it.

 

If anything I'd say Bas is one of the most upfront, least two-faced people in MMA.

[cutch]

That was written by Bas himself, that's not a source, until the CSAC says he never failed a test for pain killers then it's still a fail in my book. Why doesn't he release said video footage? or at least show it to the commission and get it over turned.

[wandshogun09]

OK, who are people picking for tonight? Main card I'm going with;

 

GSP - Decision

Condit - Decision

Marquardt - TKO - Rd 3

Ring - Decision

Ricci - Decision

 

Yeah, a lot of decisions but I reckon the top 3 fights will deliver. I think the prelims will bring the finishes. I've gone with Cote by TKO, can't remember the rest. I think Cote/Voelker and Makdessi/Cruickshank might be the sleepers to look out for on this one.

[jimufctna24]

That was written by Bas himself, that's not a source, until the CSAC says he never failed a test for pain killers then it's still a fail in my book. Why doesn't he release said video footage? or at least show it to the commission and get it over turned.

I tend to believe him

 

CSAC were a bit of a joke back then, several sources moaned about their mistakes. There treatment of Chael for example, one of the commission thought he was a boxer. Not just MMA folk. but Boxing folk think they are a joke also. If you Google about you find their reputation is far from good.