Raw Liverpool Results/Spoilers

[The Cum Doctor]

Do you not remember all the faces doing Triple H impressions back in the day...

 

"I'm-aah, going to-aah, come out here-aah, and talk for 15 minutes-aah, and say-aah ABSOLUTELY NOTHING-AAH"

 

I'm pretty sure faces also called JBL boring a fair amount too. It's hardy a new idea to call a boring, smug twat a boring, smug twat.

 

I suppose it depends on where you draw the line. I don't mind "boring". It's a blanket statement that can be used about anyone for shits and giggles. CM Punk basically took ADR's flaws and aired them to the world, and I reckon that's a bit different.

He said Bertie says the same old thing every week and is fast forward material. That is calling someone boring isn't it?

 

fruitcorner has summed it up better than I did.

 

And it isn't simply calling them boring. It's saying that he's one-dimensional and fast forward material, which is something quite different. As I said, that purely depends on where you draw the line though.

[Devon Malcolm]

The thing is though, this is all being blown out of proportion.

 

Punk didn't "bury Del Rio's ability" he put over that he's a tough hombre and a hell of a competitor. He then called him boring and said he has no personality. That's just an insult. He didn't say "ratings go down when you are on" or "the fans don't rate your talent" or anything super insider. He just called him a boring, broken-record git. That's fair game in my eyes. He didn't call his title run a flop or anything like that.

 

It's not being blown out of proportion, though. The whole promo was just off.

 

See, on the one hand Punk complains that no-one just punches each other in the face any more - something that he himself fails to do. Okay, that has nothing to do with ADR, especially, but look at the rest of the promo.

 

I have no problem calling him a weasly cheap-shot artist, because that's what ADR is and that's what his character is supposed to be. Fine. But then he starts calling him one-dimensional on the mic. Completely unnecessary! Tell him to shut up. What's wrong with that? Tell him that you're sick and tired of hearing him run his mouth. Again, what's wrong with that?

 

He just has to take it that one step further, critiquing other people's mic skills, like he did with Laurinaitis. Like him or hate him, he's an on-screen character who clearly struggles a bit, so don't crap on a character on a show that you want to look good to make more money from by crapping on his skills and making him more nervous and liable to be shitter. Del Rio clearly looked flustered to me after that exchange and he only saved himself by stealing his 'Best In The World' saying, which I thought was the best part of the exchange.

 

Talking about people fast-forwarding through ADR's promos and how he has nothing to say. Talking about making the WWE title interesting again! It's just horseshit. It doesn't help ADR. It doesn't help the title. It does nothing for their feud and it IS crapping on ADR's skills. Fuck, if saying that people are fast-forwarding through your stuff and saying you're a boring champion isn't calling his title run a flop and crapping on his stuff then what is, Eddie?

 

The funny thing about all this is that I am a huge Punk fan so if he's trying my patience then as far as I'm concerned he's not doing his job at all.

[Dirty Eddie]

You obviously don't ever even read my posts, you just give the same stock answer to everything.

Not only did I read your post, I accurately paraphrased it. That's why you're upset. You're crying because you got worked up, let the veil slip and let your true colours shine through. Thus vindicating every post I've ever made. I'm fairly sure you don't really believe the spurious "reasoning" in your "Worker bee order-following Punk's allowed to do it, Evil Boss HHH isn't" post, but I'm glad you posted it. Because now, every time you deny being one of Dem Wans with their stereotypical prejudices and opinions, there's a specific post to link to that removes all doubt.

 

 

You didn't paraphrase me at all. You cut out all my reasoned language and cut it down to your usual black & white way of putting things.

 

Do you not think that maybe Punk has been going around in interviews saying he "says what he likes" to play into the rebel character that he has been playing? Is it not possible that (like most things involving main event talent) he gets some say in what he says, but clearly still follows direction and does what the writers ask, even if he does put it into his own words?

 

I think he's worked you into thinking everything he says is an off-the-cuff shoot. There is no way that's the case.

 

 

---

 

Gladstone....

 

You may not have enjoyed the promo but everyone else in the arena did. Punk was getting spontaneous chants and people were hanging on what he said. Like I said earlier, Punk got cheered, bertie got booed. The promo completely DID work, even if it wasn't to your tastes.

[crazyshady]

Well if Punk was scripted to say that then Alberto should be man enough to question that before they go to the ring. If Punk said that as an ad lib Alberto should have the confidence or at least have the freedom to answer Punk back. Alberto standing saying nothing doesn't help the promo at all and Punk should have known that if it was scripted and if it was ad libbed he should have known that Alberto probably wasn't gonna fire back an insult at him.

 

 

And regardless of promos, the title is on Alberto for a reason, not CM Punk. If Punk was really as good as he thinks he is then he's probably thinking he should have the title. I'm sure Alberto is making more money than him currently, Punk is the one chasing the title. It's up to Punk to make it more interesting and get people behind him since the whole point of the storyline is for him to beat Alberto for the 1,2,3 and get that title back again. That's the show side of it, the real side of it, the personal side is that they are trying to draw money. Alberto by being the champion, not even doing nothing means he gets a bigget paycheque at the end of each night. Punk should be trying to help this guy and get him over because if he can do that then the more he can work with him and draw more money himself. This is the guy who's the Champion, this is the one guy in the company that when you work with him you're getting paid more money at the end of the night.

[PunkStep]

Don't worry guys, crazyshady is here to make sense of the promo with his astounding logic! Huzzah!

 

If Punk and Alberto are given a script and it buries Alberto, how does it come across if he questions it with the writers? He's been around just over a year and they've thrown their top title on him. If it was on-the-fly from Punk, then if Alberto were to fire back an ad-lib insult back at him he'd be in the shit if his stuff is meant to be scripted. He couldn't do a thing.

[Devon Malcolm]

Gladstone....

 

You may not have enjoyed the promo but everyone else in the arena did. Punk was getting spontaneous chants and people were hanging on what he said. Like I said earlier, Punk got cheered, bertie got booed. The promo completely DID work, even if it wasn't to your tastes.

 

You know, you accuse other people of not reading your posts but you're giving that impression here, to be honest, addressing absolutely zero points as you have.

[King Pitcos]

You didn't paraphrase me at all. You cut out all my reasoned language and cut it down to your usual black & white way of putting things.

Your language was about as reasoned as "HHH ISN'T ALLOWED TO BURY PEOPLE BECAUSE HE'S NEVER EVEN DONE AN HOUR WITH NIGEL MCGUINNESS! HE WAS JOBBING 2 WARRIOR TIL HE MARRIED STEPH!" I think him marrying Stephanie McMahon was even one of the reasons you did give as to why you think he's not allowed to bury people and Punk is.

 

Do you not think that maybe Punk has been going around in interviews saying he "says what he likes" to play into the rebel character that he has been playing? Is it not possible that (like most things involving main event talent) he gets some say in what he says, but clearly still follows direction and does what the writers ask, even if he does put it into his own words?

I think that none of us know how much input any talent has on a given promo, though I'm not inclined to the "if the wrestler used to work in ROH, everything bad they do is definitely all the writers' fault" school of thought. Because ultimately, it doesn't matter who wrote it. The point is if it was an Internet hate figure rather than darling coming out and dressing down the new, struggling WWE champion as fast-forward material and promising to take the title and make it interesting again, there'd be tears before bedtime about the promo being counter-productive and cutting the legs off the new champion.

[crazyshady]

He may have been around for just over a year but he's a real fighter. He can kick the shit out of most of that locker room legitimately. He says himself he doesn't want a long career in wrestling. The fact is it makes him look bad and not in a good guy vs bad guy way, it's him as a person and the title is on him, not CM Punk so he obviously has some supporters in the office.

 

 

Like i said earlier, kinda like i said when Gordon Brown stepped down as PM, he let the Tory's take over and now look at them and i do love it. Same reason i loved the London riots, i love seeing people fight the establishment although i can't support them. They should have been burning the parliament buildings and Royal Palaces to the ground but anyway there is a time and place for that and that time will come soon enough. In Punk's case, they just give him enough rope to hang himself. I'm sure Triple H and many others laugh along backstage when Punk is out there because they can see what is happening and what the end result will be. Just like Labour did to the Torys, just give them enough rope to hang themselves and let people see they don't really know what they're doing..........BUT you voted for them! You voted for Punk too and now you got him! And when you had enough the pros will be there to step in. Kinda like Labour will once again step in to save the day from those evil Torys lol.

[PunkStep]

He may have been around for just over a year but he's a real fighter. He can kick the shit out of most of that locker room legitimately.

I don't even know why I'm bothering when you come up with shit-tripe like that. You're clearly seeking a response and previously I've bitten- but fuck off you've had your share of my pie, no more for you cuntchops.

[King Pitcos]

Gladstone....

 

You may not have enjoyed the promo but everyone else in the arena did. Punk was getting spontaneous chants and people were hanging on what he said. Like I said earlier, Punk got cheered, bertie got booed. The promo completely DID work, even if it wasn't to your tastes.

 

You know, you accuse other people of not reading your posts but you're giving that impression here, to be honest, addressing absolutely zero points as you have.

That's not fair. Also, if he's not just playing favourites, Dirty Eddie believes it's fine for the likes of Triple H and John Cena to bury up-and-coming talent as long as it gets a cheer from the crowd as well. Which might be an opinion you don't share, but at least he's consistent.

[Devon Malcolm]

Gladstone....

 

You may not have enjoyed the promo but everyone else in the arena did. Punk was getting spontaneous chants and people were hanging on what he said. Like I said earlier, Punk got cheered, bertie got booed. The promo completely DID work, even if it wasn't to your tastes.

 

You know, you accuse other people of not reading your posts but you're giving that impression here, to be honest, addressing absolutely zero points as you have.

That's not fair. Also, if he's not just playing favourites, Dirty Eddie believes it's fine for the likes of Triple H and John Cena to bury up-and-coming talent as long as it gets a cheer from the crowd as well. Which might be an opinion you don't share, but at least he's consistent.

 

That's fair enough, I suppose, although I was under the impression that Eddie detested Cena for some reason. Maybe not.

[King Pitcos]

He might do, but apparently he thinks promos that could be seen as cutting the legs off rising talent are fair enough if the crowd cheers (unless he only thinks that if it's CM Punk doing the promo). And I'm largely inclined to agree, because I don't think that segment made anyone genuinely think less of Alberto, the same way the "we're the only match that matters at WrestleMania" didn't really make anyone genuinely think less of the other matches. I think Punk's speech could've been one of those things where WWE decides to do a bit of an on-screen humbling to give someone a kick up the arse, in the hope that Del Rio will start putting in more dynamic performances. And as such, I don't think Del Rio lost anything from that exchange, but he might have gained something if his stuff picks up from now on.

[Dirty Eddie]

You didn't paraphrase me at all. You cut out all my reasoned language and cut it down to your usual black & white way of putting things.

Your language was about as reasoned as "HHH ISN'T ALLOWED TO BURY PEOPLE BECAUSE HE'S NEVER EVEN DONE AN HOUR WITH NIGEL MCGUINNESS! HE WAS JOBBING 2 WARRIOR TIL HE MARRIED STEPH!" I think him marrying Stephanie McMahon was even one of the reasons you did give as to why you think he's not allowed to bury people and Punk is.

 

Do you not think that maybe Punk has been going around in interviews saying he "says what he likes" to play into the rebel character that he has been playing? Is it not possible that (like most things involving main event talent) he gets some say in what he says, but clearly still follows direction and does what the writers ask, even if he does put it into his own words?

I think that none of us know how much input any talent has on a given promo, though I'm not inclined to the "if the wrestler used to work in ROH, everything bad they do is definitely all the writers' fault" school of thought. Because ultimately, it doesn't matter who wrote it. The point is if it was an Internet hate figure rather than darling coming out and dressing down the new, struggling WWE champion as fast-forward material and promising to take the title and make it interesting again, there'd be tears before bedtime about the promo being counter-productive and cutting the legs off the new champion.

 

See, you have just done it again.

 

I don't give two shits about RoH, I watched it for about the first year, then gave up completely.

 

At no point did I say "CM Punk CAN bury people and triple H CAN'T". You are literally making shit up.

 

I said, if you bought the argument that Triple H did bury people, it's a completely different situation to what Punk is being accused of in here. Triple H does have power in the company, that's not an opinion, it's a fact. If he did bury people, it was a cuntish thing because he's completely untouchable.

 

Also, more to the point, i don't think Punk did really bury Alberto. He was a little harsh perhaps, but calling a smarmy heel champion boring is hardly a first-rate character raping is it? He didn't say "you are a bad promo" which would have been super-smarky, he said when he talk's people know it will be the same old shit. That's calling him dull, not a sub-standard pro-wrestler who should be sent to FCW or something.

 

--

 

If Punk had stood there and given del Rio a shoot dressing-down while the crowd sat there looking confused, I'd be entirely in agreement that the segment was shit and hurtful to ADR. But the crowd loved it and it all got over. Berie's "destiny2 stuff became a sham months before he even met CM Punk when he failed to cash his Destiny in a bunch of times.

[Devon Malcolm]

He might do, but apparently he thinks promos that could be seen as cutting the legs off rising talent are fair enough if the crowd cheers (unless he only thinks that if it's CM Punk doing the promo). And I'm largely inclined to agree, because I don't think that segment made anyone genuinely think less of Alberto, the same way the "we're the only match that matters at WrestleMania" didn't really make anyone genuinely think less of the other matches. I think Punk's speech could've been one of those things where WWE decides to do a bit of an on-screen humbling to give someone a kick up the arse, in the hope that Del Rio will start putting in more dynamic performances. And as such, I don't think Del Rio lost anything from that exchange, but he might have gained something if his stuff picks up from now on.

 

I hope you're right, although I still think it was a bit shitty.

 

I've said myself that Del Rio, who I do really like and generally his matches are great, has been missing something in recent weeks and it has definitely been his promos. I just wonder if they could have used Ricardo more - instead of just having him put to sleep every week, actually use him on the mic because from what I gather he's supposed to be very good and maybe he could have helped ADR out, especially being a weasly shit himself.

[King Pitcos]

At no point did I say "CM Punk CAN bury people and triple H CAN'T". You are literally making shit up.

Alright, if you're fine with them both doing it, fair enough.

 

Also, more to the point, i don't think Punk did really bury Alberto. He was a little harsh perhaps, but calling a smarmy heel champion boring is hardly a first-rate character raping is it? He didn't say "you are a bad promo" which would have been super-smarky, he said when he talk's people know it will be the same old shit. That's calling him dull, not a sub-standard pro-wrestler who should be sent to FCW or something.

So if Triple H had done that same material that Punk did, you wouldn't have taken issue with it? Or if Punk had instead said "you are a bad promo" you would have taken issue with it?