Chinatown: Mafia Scum Thread

[Retro Red]

-"Kenny put his vote on your because he supposedly saw it as a more possible wagon, yet still claimed me to be MORE scummy. He didn't put a good case on either of us, as you pointed out."

So his vote on me is distancing but the one on you isn't, because he said you were 'MORE scummy'. You had no votes on you when he voted you, I had 2. and was the only wagon going at that point. If one of us was distanced by Kenny's vote it's you I'm afraid.

 

-"You're suggesting the scum killing Kenny would have been a viable option, which i just don't buy and i think you've pushed it enough that you think it plausible and i feel that such would cause confusion. "

No, I've not pushed it. I've responded to you trying to shoot it down as an impossibility.

 

"You're painting my play as scummy, when i've put plenty out there and lets face it, of all the night actions we know of, there's nothing yet to disprove my theory. "

And nothing to prove it either. Evidence to support a theory is not proof. I'm saying your actions are suspicious/scummy, not using conjecture based on unproved theories to paint you scummy, which is what you're doing to me.

 

-"You were happy to go with the idea that you were being framed due to the L-1 vote reset and lets look at the vote reset a little more:"

 

"Kenny wasn't on the wagon (as you've said) - scum had the means to push that wagon through because kenny was free to put his vote there at least. Although, what we have to think about here is even if he had of put his vote here, if it was automatic it wouldn't have counted and the votes still would have been reset due to the condition being met - The scum still had plenty of time to make the wagon on Ron go though - there was no rush to throw the hammer in and perhaps they'd hope to keep someone seperate from the wagon anyway - split their viewpoints ofc.

They had Ron right there to their knowledge, there was still time left, of course they'd not just hammer right away and i don't think that in itself hurts Rons standing at all."

 

This is the thing. The vote count was initiated for one of three things. 1) To get Ron off the hook (if he's scum) 2) an automatic passive ability or 3) To fuck shit up.

 

It succeed on 1 and 3, and 2 is conjecture. The vote reset wasn't initiated by me, so damn right it looks suspiciously like a frame up from where I'm standing. Do I believe it's passive? We've never had passive secondary abilities in the games before, so the most logical assumption is that this is the game we do have one in? Or is the logical assumption that we don't have a passive secondary ability attached to the vig role and that this was initiated by someone else?

 

Here's your timeline around the reset.

 

Voting for Ron

*reset*

Vote bristep - Teedy points out the obvious flaw in the logic, so,

Unvote

Vote ron - Then you realise if could have been passive not active, and of course that becomes instantly the most logical reason, so,

Unvote

Vote bristep

 

You have made a game out of picking the less likely scenario as the most likely scenario. You're basing your theory on Carbomb using roles and mechanics that we've never had in a mafia game before, rather than the other theory, based on traditional rules and roles. you throw out comments like "Oh I know Kenny, he votes a town and FOS a scum friend" to push me as his scumbuddy before Kenny even dies. Sowing seeds is a very clever tactic, but a lot of you play so far just seems really forced to me.

[Chris_Stone]

Oh my dear Bristep we can continue in this way for days without getting anywhere, if you're wanting a slip from me, it will not come, i'm not scum.

 

My timeline of votes prior to the reset doesn't really hold much weight in analysis, it shows nothing, does it?

 

On roles we've never seen here before, i'd put to you that the Scum doctor is not one i remember seeing and possibly hasn't been used?

 

I'm not using crazy theories to paint you as scum though, Bristep. Tell me at this point:

 

-What is there in way of evidence to disprove the idea that Ron killed Kenny?

-What is there to disprove that he is a town vig as opposed to a SK?

 

Look at it this way: The day killer - Killer one :: The kill on Kenny - Killer two :: A protected kill - Killer 3.

 

Killer 3 would obviously be the scum kill in your mind

Killer 2 would be a SK

and Killer 1 the vig - (Ron?)

 

Tell me also, do you still find Ron to be suspicious at this point? One of the things with rons claim that was brought up is: It can't be true, that would mean 3 killers in a 13 player game, which is too much, it's why a lot did not believe him, but in your scenario's we're looking at the 3 killers, or scum killed scum.

 

I'm willing to accept both as possibilities although the latter one makes no sense at all to me.

 

So then, why the distrust for Ron? Suddenly the idea of 3 killers is acceptable and there is REAL evidence to support that idea. That is not conjecture, it's 3 killers or scum has a night kill at this point, in my mind - UNLESS scum killed Kenny - which i think even you will have to admit is highly unlikely, isn't it?

 

I'm not going to touch on the Kenny distancing things again right now, I need to go through and look through all of the interactions he had to do that correctly.

 

Anyway, you're not pushing the idea that i'm scum, you're certainly hinting at the idea. Also, my play hasn't been slightly forced if anything its been far too open and far too impulsive. Surely if i was forcing my play, i'd unlikely to be flip flopping around as much as i seemingly did in the last day? Let me give you a hint: It was the actions of somebody really concerned that we may not make the right move.

 

Annnnd my last point:

 

If i'm scummy, why am I on the side of Ron? Why protect him when he is likely the Vig especially when he likely shot kenny? He's a massive danger to the scum and it would make absolutely no sense. Why would I have switched up my vote and went for you instead? Well, Ron would also have to be scum no doubt for me to protect him like that but again, his vig claim makes some sense now, doesn't it? So that's unlikely the case.

[Retro Red]

Oh my dear Bristep we can continue in this way for days without getting anywhere, if you're wanting a slip from me, it will not come, i'm not scum.

 

My timeline of votes prior to the reset doesn't really hold much weight in analysis, it shows nothing, does it?

 

On roles we've never seen here before, i'd put to you that the Scum doctor is not one i remember seeing and possibly hasn't been used?

 

I'm not using crazy theories to paint you as scum though, Bristep. Tell me at this point:

 

-What is there in way of evidence to disprove the idea that Ron killed Kenny?

-What is there to disprove that he is a town vig as opposed to a SK?

 

Look at it this way: The day killer - Killer one :: The kill on Kenny - Killer two :: A protected kill - Killer 3.

 

Killer 3 would obviously be the scum kill in your mind

Killer 2 would be a SK

and Killer 1 the vig - (Ron?)

 

Tell me also, do you still find Ron to be suspicious at this point? One of the things with rons claim that was brought up is: It can't be true, that would mean 3 killers in a 13 player game, which is too much, it's why a lot did not believe him, but in your scenario's we're looking at the 3 killers, or scum killed scum.

 

I'm willing to accept both as possibilities although the latter one makes no sense at all to me.

 

So then, why the distrust for Ron? Suddenly the idea of 3 killers is acceptable and there is REAL evidence to support that idea. That is not conjecture, it's 3 killers or scum has a night kill at this point, in my mind - UNLESS scum killed Kenny - which i think even you will have to admit is highly unlikely, isn't it?

 

I'm not going to touch on the Kenny distancing things again right now, I need to go through and look through all of the interactions he had to do that correctly.

 

Anyway, you're not pushing the idea that i'm scum, you're certainly hinting at the idea. Also, my play hasn't been slightly forced if anything its been far too open and far too impulsive. Surely if i was forcing my play, i'd unlikely to be flip flopping around as much as i seemingly did in the last day? Let me give you a hint: It was the actions of somebody really concerned that we may not make the right move.

 

Annnnd my last point:

 

If i'm scummy, why am I on the side of Ron? Why protect him when he is likely the Vig especially when he likely shot kenny? He's a massive danger to the scum and it would make absolutely no sense. Why would I have switched up my vote and went for you instead? Well, Ron would also have to be scum no doubt for me to protect him like that but again, his vig claim makes some sense now, doesn't it? So that's unlikely the case.

 

We really are dancing around the point now. Last time of saying. I'M NOT DISCOUNTING ANYTHING THAT HASN'T BEEN PROVED IMPOSSIBLE. End Fucking Of.

 

Oh and if anyone here still played the game waiting for those elusive 'slips' I'd be disappointed. That's entry level play and we're all long past it. I'm not trying to get a 'slip' out of you Chris. That's not how I play.

[Chris_Stone]

^_^

[Mafia Scum Scum]

Sorry I didn't join in last night but my laptop is now dead and I ended up going to my mates to watch the TNA PPV and Raw last night.

 

I have no problem still playing this game, but if anyone expects to do my usual number of posts and a lot of quotes, there is no chance of that with me having to type everything on my iPhone.

 

Nothing seems to have changed since I last posted so here are a few thoughts of my own.

 

Triad has to mean three in a game this size, as the scum doctors group must have a leader, as well as 4 scum with the possibility of another scum member / group out there would unbalance the game.

 

For now, with the evidence we have, I don't doubt that Ron killed Kenny but I don't believe he is town either.

 

I don't get why people can't accept the possibility that Ron is a scum member with a different agenda to Kenny.

 

Scum wouldn't kill off their own doctor, maybe goon or some other lesser role, but not doctor if it means their boss can be protected all game.

 

We have two scum groups to deal with, one day and one night, but that is all I have worked out so far.

 

I might be right, I might be wrong, but that is how I am approaching this game and what I believe we will find if we keep looking hard enough.

[Retro Red]

Setup speculation aside, we need to agree on a lynch this time and the phase ends Friday night at midnight. I'm out Friday night like I'm sure many of you are so may I suggest we maybe get something done sooner rather than later.

[Ron Simmons]

Setup speculation aside, we need to agree on a lynch this time and the phase ends Friday night at midnight. I'm out Friday night like I'm sure many of you are so may I suggest we maybe get something done sooner rather than later.

Keeping in mind the vote blitzing of last time I suggest we set a deadline on the Thursday incase it happens again, and if it does at least we have a whole day to make sure we get a lynch this time.

[unfitfinlay]

I'd like everyone to answer the following questions:

 

-Do you believe that ron killed Kenny? If not, then who / what do you suspect?

-Do you believe Ron is the town Vig? If not, what is he?

- You're Kenny, you know that you're the doctor, Teedy and Bristep are your partners, Do you protect yourself or one of teedy / Bristep and why? Do either of those 2 in your mind seem less likely to be killed by Ron (we're assuming he is the town vig in this question) than you would have as kenny last night?

-Also a general case study on someone you believe to have been aligned with kenny would be nice.

 

1. Unless someone else comes forward with a reason not to believe him, I think he is.

 

2. I think he's either the town vig or a serial killer. I really don't buy the idea that scum would use a nightkill on their own man. Especially when he looked so scummy that they could've easily bussed him the next day.

 

3. I'm not convinced either Teedy or Bristep were partners with Kenny but, hypothetically, if I'm a scum doctor, I'd protect the most important scum player. In the WCW/NWO game, we had our scum doctor protect our recruiter the first night and then our (newly recruited) rolecop for the rest of the game.

 

4. I've already said why I suspect Snake might've been aligned with Kenny and, despite Kenny's posthumous attempt to get me caught up in WIFOM, that's where my vote is going to remain for now.

[unfitfinlay]

EBWOP

 

I'd like everyone to answer the following questions:

 

-Do you believe that ron killed Kenny? If not, then who / what do you suspect?

-Do you believe Ron is the town Vig? If not, what is he?

- You're Kenny, you know that you're the doctor, Teedy and Bristep are your partners, Do you protect yourself or one of teedy / Bristep and why? Do either of those 2 in your mind seem less likely to be killed by Ron (we're assuming he is the town vig in this question) than you would have as kenny last night?

-Also a general case study on someone you believe to have been aligned with kenny would be nice.

 

1. Unless someone else comes forward with a reason not to believe him, I think he did.

 

2. I think he's either the town vig or a serial killer. I really don't buy the idea that scum would use a nightkill on their own man. Especially when he looked so scummy that they could've easily bussed him the next day.

 

3. I'm not convinced either Teedy or Bristep were partners with Kenny but, hypothetically, if I'm a scum doctor, I'd protect the most important scum player. In the WCW/NWO game, we had our scum doctor protect our recruiter the first night and then our (newly recruited) rolecop for the rest of the game. The only way I'd self protect is if I was a town weak Doctor and even then only if I was completely clueless about who to protect.

 

4. I've already said why I suspect Snake might've been aligned with Kenny and, despite Kenny's posthumous attempt to get me caught up in WIFOM, that's where my vote is going to remain for now.

[Ron Simmons]

I find Bristep's "throwing theories at the wall to see what sticks" approach really suspect, particularly since he rubbishes other people's attempts at doing the same thing. Some of his theories are so illogical it seems completely out of character, making him right up there on my current suspect list.

 

Chat has currently died down a little here, and I think there are a few people who really need to contribute something more. I find Seph and Teedy Kay's interactions quite suspect, I wonder if they're doing their "banter" bits to keep Seph occupied without him actually having to say anything of substance?

 

People are definitely slipping under the radar to the point it's very difficult to form opinions on certain players.

[seph]

I find Bristep's "throwing theories at the wall to see what sticks" approach really suspect, particularly since he rubbishes other people's attempts at doing the same thing. Some of his theories are so illogical it seems completely out of character, making him right up there on my current suspect list.

 

Chat has currently died down a little here, and I think there are a few people who really need to contribute something more. I find Seph and Teedy Kay's interactions quite suspect, I wonder if they're doing their "banter" bits to keep Seph occupied without him actually having to say anything of substance?

 

People are definitely slipping under the radar to the point it's very difficult to form opinions on certain players.

 

It's not like I've actually got, y'know, paid employment or anything like...

 

I'm not too sure about Bri. He's played about as much as we've come to expect - undeniable logic but overly-aggressive delivery that begs the question as to whether or not he's on edge about his position; his 'ooh, hit a nerve have I?' at you earlier really contrasts with his 'FUCKING IDIOTS' play and 'WE'RE PAST BASIC THEORY' speech a few posts above. Chris is taking the circular play between them much better, and while Bri is understandably miffed at such 'basic' play we, as a whole, still don't really have any better ideas.

 

Chris is taking the right path in trying - at breadth - for an unconventional solution to this game. And this is an unconventional game, let's face it. The two things that Ron's not taken into account with his challenge for a Thursday sub-deadline is that the day-killer has his eye on the vote reset just as much as the rest of us - does he wait until after it's lapsed to force a non-lynch, or does he lynch before to stifle any wagons before the reset can be triggered, mechanically or not?

 

And for Teedy's benefit, I'm typing this with two whiteboard markers up my nose. They're awesome.

 

EBWOP: One thing*

[Ron Simmons]

Chris is taking the right path in trying - at breadth - for an unconventional solution to this game. And this is an unconventional game, let's face it. The two things that Ron's not taken into account with his challenge for a Thursday sub-deadline is that the day-killer has his eye on the vote reset just as much as the rest of us - does he wait until after it's lapsed to force a non-lynch, or does he lynch before to stifle any wagons before the reset can be triggered, mechanically or not?

You're right, I'd forgotten about that. But I still think an earlier deadline is a good idea. If the kill's stifled we'll have enough time to get the votes back on person X before the real deadline. If we don't set an earlier deadline I don't think we'll have a lynch today.

[Carbomb]

Not sure if this was the direction people were going, but just to be absolutely sure: Kenny's "bah!" post was purely that. It was a reference to Big Trouble In Little China, and nothing more. I know enough of Kenny's character in these games to know he wouldn't try to influence the game after being eriminated.

[Chris B]

The interminable game that never ends has finally gone to a night phase. A month, and we've just finished the second day. Ugh.

 

I will catch up today/tomorrow. Anyone that fancies handily summarising their thoughts so far, this would be much appreciated, and would gain you town points in my eyes (although also suspicion that you're trying to gain my favour).

 

Oh, also, anyone fancy explaining major events so far?

[Retro Red]

I'm not too sure about Bri. He's played about as much as we've come to expect - undeniable logic but overly-aggressive delivery that begs the question as to whether or not he's on edge about his position; his 'ooh, hit a nerve have I?' at you earlier really contrasts with his 'FUCKING IDIOTS' play and 'WE'RE PAST BASIC THEORY' speech a few posts above. Chris is taking the circular play between them much better, and while Bri is understandably miffed at such 'basic' play we, as a whole, still don't really have any better ideas.

 

Chris is taking the right path in trying - at breadth - for an unconventional solution to this game. And this is an unconventional game, let's face it. The two things that Ron's not taken into account with his challenge for a Thursday sub-deadline is that the day-killer has his eye on the vote reset just as much as the rest of us - does he wait until after it's lapsed to force a non-lynch, or does he lynch before to stifle any wagons before the reset can be triggered, mechanically or not?

 

And for Teedy's benefit, I'm typing this with two whiteboard markers up my nose. They're awesome.

 

EBWOP: One thing*

 

I just want you to clarify something seph. If "I'm playing about as much as we've come to expect" then how does that tally to me looking like I'm "on edge about his position" given that we've only played games where I've been on the town side? I don't see how the 2 equate.

 

Regarding the Chris remark, you're right he is approaching things unconventionally but that could also be him leading town down the garden path. Nobody is 100% to be trusted here.

 

How ChrisB has the energy for any mafia play while that stupid game on MS is going on I have no idea but credit to him. I know mine is sapping my willpower, his is a lot worse.

 

@Ron : Point out my illogical theories and I'll happily address them. The only one that goes against the known evidence is you superbussing Kenny but even in saying it I said it would have been a hella gambit. Meaning that it wasn't likely. Something that people are failing to mention when bringing it up again and again.