Chinatown: Mafia Scum Thread

[Chris_Stone]

post #332 - Kenny mentions me and Bristep as suspects since we pushed hard against Ron even though we'd know that a town vig would be useful for us - mentiones my elaborate game structure idea.

post #333 - I dispute the idea that i dismissed ron's claim - after all that's why i switched my vote.

post #334 - Ron is with me here, votes Bristep for 'dismissing ideas out right'

post #335 - I tell Ron to shoot Kenny, mention that he pushed a vote onto me and fos's bristep - 'Now that the wagon is pushing on Bristep, lets see you follow through with your suspicion Mcbride'

post #337 - Bristep mentions that he'd had ron claim vig, at L-1 and points out that if he was scum having scum reset the vote would be silly. Claims ron was L-1, his team knew they had the reset button and used it, thus rons attempt at a counterwagon on bri. Votes Ron.

Post #345 - Kenny tries to make out that i'm ok with losing a town vig again, thinks one of me and Ron are scum but bristep is viable for him too. 'If others want you to live, i'll switch but i've suspected you for longer'

Post #348 - Kenny unvotes and vote's Bristep

post #350 - I mention it was a quick change of heart.

Post #400 - kenny: Right, I'll not have another chance to post tonight. My vote stays. I suspect Chris more, but Bristep is a more viable wagon. Trying to lynch a vig is anti-town however you look at it. The reset could be a town pwer. It could be automatic. It could be scum. We don't know. Let's not get too hung up on it when we don't have long to deeadline.

 

It seems to me here that practically all of Kenny's interaction past the vote reset was with me, Ron and Bristep (unless I missed something here).

 

He seems to costantly suspect me the most, he tries to pin me with wanting to see the vig dead and for some reason finds me scummier than Bristep who he also finds suspicious. The thing that strikes me as odd is the quick change of heart which went unanswered for 50 posts.

 

He had said in his post he was willing to change his vote if people wanted to see me live, then 2 posts later switched his vote (there were no bristep votes made in that time). Then as i say, 50 posts go by and he mentions that he though Bristep was the most viable between myself and him and so had put his vote there, but neither were actually going to happen at the point we were at and there was some discomfort in killing Ron.

 

I don't know, it just seemed like i dared him vote Bristep and he did because i called him out on it, I even said i'd have preffered that he stuck to his guns some on me when i mentioned it being a quick change of heart- his reason for voting bristep was null, he seemed to do it to proove me wrong.

 

From what i saw he didn't even mention me and my telling ron to shoot him, at the same time i had voted and already began going toward Bristep, as had Ron. He accused me and Bristep of being ok to see a town vig killed but pushed that he was obviously more suspicious of me but i had already changed my vote to bristep ALONG with the suspected town vig SURELY this was now more of a reason to have Bristep lynched who was still on the Ron wagon?

 

I don't understand it, but the 50 post gap certainly gave time for that to slip under the radar a little. What is obvious to me at this point however is this: If Ron is scum, Bristep is not, If Bristep is Scum, Ron is not - ofc it could be town vs town but something here tells me that isn't the case.

 

I'm going to go back and look a little further, i just wanted to post my findings from kennys interactions after the vote reset.

[Chris_Stone]

Right, need to get back into this and todays the perfect day, been keeping tabs so I'm pretty upto date, so far the way I see it is Ron is the nearest we have to a confirmed town right now (I'm not calling him confirmed though), and the scum day kill theory is looking like a possibility, although I believe there must be some kind of day doctor or roleblocker as the scum had a Night doc to protect from our vig. As for suspects I will take a look as kenny interactions properly this afternoon that should give me some idea where my vote is going to go.

 

You're always making this kind of promise and then you either 'forget' or give us a small post - stop coasting, make some kind of case - active lurking isn't necessarily a scum tell with you - you often do it BUT i want a read on you in some way or another.

[Dan Williams]

Having a re-read, kenny only really became active around the 24hrs before the lynch and apart from what chris has already posted didn't do much real scum hunting and never really alligned with anyone, if anything he tried to distance himself from people like dazz, bristep and chris, but I really don't see that as good enough evidence to lynch somebody right now. Chris B's vote was abit strange, possibly scummy but we have no read on him what so ever so even if we lynch him and he is scum it won't give us much to go on to find any more of his scum kin (I'm Guessing 1-2 more)

[Chris_Stone]

Dan:

Top suspect and why?

Second suspect and why?

Which of the cases presented already do you feel are being pushed for scummy reasonings?

Which of the cases presented already do you feel are being pushed for the right reasons, but are probably wrong?

[Teedy Kay]

Right, I am promising you all that my take is coming tomorrow.

 

I have a few points to make, just want to try and clarify pieces.

 

There is one thing I am certain of, there are two people within this game that are Town, possibly three.

 

They are:

 

Chris Stone

 

Bristep

 

and the possible is unfitfinlay, who would be a defo for me if he posted a tad more (kettles and pots in black and whatnot)

 

I hope to explain my feelings towards the above tomorrow at around 1600 hours (Ugh I just typed a number and proceeded it by the word hours, see what my jobs doing to me?)

 

The rest of my feelings come from a process of elimination.

 

Yes Seph, you will feature, and seriously from me for a change.

[Chris_Stone]

Request vote count

 

We're getting closish to the end of the day phase and it doesn't seem like we're going to reach any clear answer on who we want to lynch, so something i want to ask for an answer on (whether or not it has been discussed):

 

Who do you feel we should lynch today and why? Make a full case post, don't just say 'I feelk the argument against them is good' YOUR thoughts are needed.

 

Me?

 

I still don't feel comfortable with Bristep, his interaction with Kenny seem suspicious from what i've looked at and i realise alone it is not enough to lynch on - I feel he hasn't been quite as proactive with scum hunting as in previous games and allowed me to draw him into a circular argument which i also don't feel he'd have done if he didn't want to convince his innocence. My reasonings are not the best, but i don't think kenny's flip painted him in a good light and I was suspicious enough to have put my vote on him in the previous day and i don't feel any more comfortable with him than then. Also, this day phase he seems to be a lot more open to other ideas, that's not to say that he hasn't made it clear he still thinks some are unliekly which of course is fine. I just feel a change in tone from him as if he's backed off slightly without doing so in a way which would raise further suspicion. The talk about the gambit from scum and then calling Ron as close to confirmed town as anybody or at least that we can't assume Ron is lying seems almost contradictory - IF the scum made such a gambit it would have had to be done to protect someone high on the list of suspicions, which would be Ron, perhaps Bristep himself but i don't see anyone else really benefiting from it - of course, Ron would benefit from a play MUCH more than Bristep and so it seems to me that the suggestion and talk about such a gambit would be done to incriminate Ron. We should at least consider the fact that Ron is the main person with a reason for a gambit.

 

Why do i trust Ron at this point?

 

I've mentioned it before and i want to do so again these are the main points:

- His claim isn't the one i'd expect him to run to after the day kill which took place

- No one has disputed his claim

- There is plenty there to help us believe he would have shot kenny, I had suggested it to him twice and his explaination is also good enough.

 

Bristep, you've been a suspect of mine for a while, whether at times for the right reasons or not, i believe a lot of things are starting to go against you and in this game I don't trust you to be town at this point.

[Dan Williams]

1. Top suspect and why? Chris B, His one post was really iffy with the wording saying he hoped he wasn't the hammer and just dropping a vote that would fit in perfectly in the RVS but completely out of place at the start of the second day, also his game at MS is apparently at night phase yet he has become no more active in this game. If I were to vote now it would be on him.

2. Second suspect and why? Teedy Kay / SMS, continued push on Ron even though at the moment he is the most confirmed person we have.

3. Which of the cases presented already do you feel are being pushed for scummy reasonings? See number 1

4. Which of the cases presented already do you feel are being pushed for the right reasons, but are probably wrong? Not many cases being presented right now, alot of people are lurking, even more so than me.

 

So chris there are you answers, why don't you go ahead and give us your answers to them?

[Chris_Stone]

Just to make my point clear: I believe Bristep to be a high suspect, I don't necessarily believe he is the right one to go with right now, a lot of what i have on him is through Kenny's interactions and we know he is scum - they could well have been to confuse us. I'm not going to push this hard to the lynch and whilst i say i'm no more comfortable with Bristep than i previously was, the idea that he is town is something which is in my mind more than previously. I'm not convinced he is scum, I am not convinced he is town, I just find some of the things he's said or some of the interactions which have been had to seem scummy.

 

I have to admit, the bit with kenny i instigated, I gave Kenny what was basically a dare and it was obvious that whenever Kenny had flipped his actions would paint Bristep badly, which is why it can't be taken to be too meaningful, but i've seen Kenny make silly mistakes when it comes to giving people away through elimination and that's why I am not writing it off.

[Carbomb]

The "Carbomb Finally Gets His Act Together" Votecount:

 

Snake Plissken (1)(L-5) - unfitfinlay

bristep123 (1)(L-5) - Ron Simmons

 

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Night Phase begins Friday 17th June, 23:59pm.

[Chris_Stone]

So chris there are you answers, why don't you go ahead and give us your answers to them?

 

Certainly.

 

1. Top suspect and why? Bristep - this is outlined but I'm not convinced of his being scum right now, The idea that even with my case that Kenny stitched him up is resounding in my mind, also the idea that Bristep stepped off a bit can also be read as him changing his mind on Ron somewhat after kenny's death - just some of the things said don't quite add up (see like 2 posts up)

 

2. Second suspect and why? Well, I'd have to say SMS - his over reaction in the early going to my vote was odd, further from that i have to echo the idea that at this point to still push against ron is a bit suspicious, that being said i believe his vote has been taken away.

 

3. Which of the cases presented already do you feel are being pushed for scummy reasonings? cases against Ron - Not because it's 100% confirmed he is town (because he isn't) but because we have no reasonable reason to distrust him at the moment and with the possibility he killed off a scum member in the last night phase, we should trust him for now - even if he's scum, we've our eyes on him, in that scenario the other scum member is still our biggest threat. If he is town vig, the scum may want rid of him in the day phases, due to it being increasingly harder to get him in the night now he's out in the open.

 

4. Which of the cases presented already do you feel are being pushed for the right reasons, but are probably wrong? I don't have enough strong reads to answer this fully, Unfitfinlays case on Snake would be closest to this though, I feel that he presented it for the right reasons, but there's not enough to suggest he's certainly right.

[Retro Red]

Request vote count

 

We're getting closish to the end of the day phase and it doesn't seem like we're going to reach any clear answer on who we want to lynch, so something i want to ask for an answer on (whether or not it has been discussed):

 

Who do you feel we should lynch today and why? Make a full case post, don't just say 'I feelk the argument against them is good' YOUR thoughts are needed.

 

Me?

 

I still don't feel comfortable with Bristep, his interaction with Kenny seem suspicious from what i've looked at and i realise alone it is not enough to lynch on - I feel he hasn't been quite as proactive with scum hunting as in previous games and allowed me to draw him into a circular argument which i also don't feel he'd have done if he didn't want to convince his innocence. My reasonings are not the best, but i don't think kenny's flip painted him in a good light and I was suspicious enough to have put my vote on him in the previous day and i don't feel any more comfortable with him than then. Also, this day phase he seems to be a lot more open to other ideas, that's not to say that he hasn't made it clear he still thinks some are unliekly which of course is fine. I just feel a change in tone from him as if he's backed off slightly without doing so in a way which would raise further suspicion. The talk about the gambit from scum and then calling Ron as close to confirmed town as anybody or at least that we can't assume Ron is lying seems almost contradictory - IF the scum made such a gambit it would have had to be done to protect someone high on the list of suspicions, which would be Ron, perhaps Bristep himself but i don't see anyone else really benefiting from it - of course, Ron would benefit from a play MUCH more than Bristep and so it seems to me that the suggestion and talk about such a gambit would be done to incriminate Ron. We should at least consider the fact that Ron is the main person with a reason for a gambit.

 

Why do i trust Ron at this point?

 

I've mentioned it before and i want to do so again these are the main points:

- His claim isn't the one i'd expect him to run to after the day kill which took place

- No one has disputed his claim

- There is plenty there to help us believe he would have shot kenny, I had suggested it to him twice and his explaination is also good enough.

 

Bristep, you've been a suspect of mine for a while, whether at times for the right reasons or not, i believe a lot of things are starting to go against you and in this game I don't trust you to be town at this point.

 

Define 'a lot of things' Chris. From my point of view, I see a lot of fuzzy logic and conjecture, setting up Ron to fall once I flip town and me to fall if Ron flips town ("If Ron is scum, Bristep is not, If Bristep is Scum, Ron is not - ofc it could be town vs town but something here tells me that isn't the case. "). From my viewpoint, I know that you're barking up the wrong tree with me so I have to ask myself. Is he simply wrong? Or is he trying to twist things to get me lynched?

 

I'll drop some knowledge, because I think that while I abhor claiming without good reason it may open up other theories to be more valid since this game is so entrenched in setup speculation.

 

I'm Bulletproof. S'why I've been putting my neck out there (and really blatantly fakebreadcrumbing tracker in the early going) to try and draw kills. That's helped colour some of my speculation, and without that being common knowledge I can see why others might see it as baseless conjecture. I know that there *could* have been a 2nd kill attempt last night, and there could have been a kill attempt today already.

[Dan Williams]

Chris may I ask your opinion of chris b's 2 posts, His I'm Here post and his Voting post?

[Chris_Stone]

(and really blatantly fakebreadcrumbing tracker in the early going) -

 

Heh, remember when i said i thought there was a tracker in the game and that i thought i had the person pegged? I wish i had kept to that idea, although let me say i had some issues with just how blatent you were regarding it and it didn't help me to trust you one bit, it seemed too easy to pick up on although i didn't instantly distrust it.

 

The things which have gone against you in some degree is probably down to the fact that you know certain things still could have easily been going on. I've admitted the short comings in my investigation on you and right now (prior to your claim in fact) I wouldn't have been happy leading a case to put you to the rope.

 

My tunnelling on you has been fairly bad play, to that i will admit however your bullet proof claim does not confirm you and as such I'd like to test it. As a full town we do not have 2 suspects (at this point - it could change) which are strong enough suspects that we should have a confident lynch and a town night kill, so i believe Ron should shoot at you. though there's plenty of scope for such to go wrong. So i'm not sure it is the best play.

 

Your story does add up, the lack of day kill, the lack of night kill (each could have been stopped in other ways but we have no evidence of such) and your fake breadcrumbing was something i had noticed and if i were scum, I know i'd have targetted you.

 

I do think however Bristep that if you're telling the truth the time was not now to be claiming it, especially when even with my case against you i had made clear that it wasn't the best and given both sides on it all, I don't see how that did anything but hurt us for the time being?

 

Another interesting point however is that the vote reset compliments your role, if it wasn't automatic on ron being L-1 (which is completely possible) it could have been to actually help save you specifically. I'd say it was probably scum in that case 'they can reset vote counts but it could be a very bad thing if they did it for the bullet proof) not that they'd necessarily want to stop you being lynched - if it's town i guess it could be to allow someone to try and stop us making a mistake.

[Chris_Stone]

Another point, my case against you or at least my vote and the idea that some might support it in someway probably helped any scum kill to be directed to you, if you're bullet proof - it's a good idea, they'd have likely killed 2 town with one bullet as i'd be strung up

[Mafia Scum Scum]

With kills taking place both day and night, it makes sense for town to have a bulletproof player, so whilst I don't like the way you role claimed I think I believe you.

 

As for my push on Ron, I wasn't convinced enough he was town, but trying to work out everything in my head I think I was wrong.

 

If I didn't at least try and push a scum slip out of someone I suspect, no matter who they are or what role they are claiming, then I may as well not even play.

 

I wasn't alone in suspecting Ron, but whilst trying to work out what might be a fair balanced game with 2 possible scum groups about, I can see the possibility of us having Ron on our side.

 

Chris Stone, even though you have said you suspect me, I don't suspect you.

 

Dan, you mentioned me as one of your top suspects, well it would be nice if you actually posted a bit more so I can get a read on you.