Chinatown: Mafia Scum Thread

[Chris_Stone]

I still don't know what to make of this game, but whatever happened last night, was a good thing.

 

We took out one of the scums main roles, which now puts us back on an even playing field, but does the fact scum have a doctor leave anyone feeling like town doesn't?

I also wonder what it was that the killer saw in Kenny as a target, but he wasn't the most obvious choice to me, but I get we will have to wait and find that out at a later time.

 

The fact Kenny was not protecting himself, probably means he was protecting his boss or some scum team mate who looked scummier than him, so I am off to read back through everything later today to see what I can find.

 

No it doesn't make me feel we don't have a doctor, i think it's still possible and if not some form of protective role may be in play - Why would you be looking for answers on that point anyway? Why would you bring that point up to scums attention? Instead of looking for someone who's less likely to be protected (usually the less active ones) they'll be happy to take pot shots at those more involved in the game.

 

I made a point on the 'probably protecting someone who seems more scummy than himself also but you also just said that Kenny didn't seem like a target at all - perhaps it was due to him feeling he had no chance to worry he just protected someone else as opposed to one of them seeming scummier.

 

Scum not having a night kill is something I refuse to accept, as it breaks the very basic game rules, so that leaves me with the thought that Ron is scum and made the night kill.

 

We don't even know if we have a vigilante, they may not want to reveal themselves just yet either as they may become a target, plus it could be a one shot deal.

 

Scum, always have and always will have a night kill, because I looked through lots of other games played on different sites and never came across one any different.

 

We are dealing with a scum group and daytime vigilant / serial killer or two scum groups.

 

Ron killing Kenny and Kenny being scum does not prove me wrong on this theory yet, however I do need to do a bit more research, so I will try and do that at my computer tonight.

 

 

Your first assumption, is that Ron is lying scum rather than scum kill got prevented and Ron is telling the truth?

 

Bristep pointed out here that you're quite happily leaving out one side of the argument, you're still painting ron to be scum here by not presenting it even whilst you're leaving the idea he could be innocent, you're just giving it no credit.

 

I just didn't believe what Ron was saying at the end of the last day and have no reason to believe him now.

 

I am sticking my neck on the line here, because I know I could easily be targeted now, but Ron is my main suspect followed by Snake.

 

I have to go to work now but await Rons response.

 

You're quite adamant on having no reason to trust him still, after all you've nothing but kenny's death with you have already said does not prove rons innocence. Also, you're sticking your neck out and you could easily be targeted... Well no, you're working off fairly ok reasoning and since no one can be fully sure of ron's alignment at the moment that's ok!

 

Sorry if you thought I was tunnelling you Ron, but I just wanted some post from you to try and prove that you shouldn't be our lynch for the day, as I just feel you haven't defended yourself well enough for the day.

 

I know it is easy for me to say this, because it is not me having everyone questioning whether my role is town or scum at the moment, but you have to understand why I feel it necessary to push you on this.

 

I have been looking around elsewhere, but have very little to go on, so whilst searching for clues I admit I was trying to push you a bit to see if I could get a slip up from you.

 

I thought you were guilty, but reading through things again, I may have jumped a little too quickly and really thought your last response was a valid point.

 

I still don't feel a great sense of trust from you, but I really don't want to be the one to start a lynch on a possible town power role, not that anybody else appears interested in voting for you anyhow.

I won't be around much tomorrow, so I need to look at my other main suspects, them being Snake and Bristep before I vote.

 

Unvote: Ron[\b]

 

Waaaait a minute, in the previous post you mentioned being a possible target, talking about how you're sticking your neck out, the wagon on Ron had already died down. You start this post saying that he hasn't defended himself enough for the day, that he needs to convince you on why he shouldn't be lynched... fair enough yet later in the same post you said you've read through you think you may have jumped on too quick 'I THOUGHT[/](past tense) that you were guilty' yet you go on after it to again say that you still don't trust him and then the icing on the cake:

I really don't want to be the one to start a lynch on a possible town power role'

You don't want to start a lynch on a possible power role? You're changing your vote because you don't want to be the person starting it? Is this down to the withdrawal of me and Bristep who in the previous day had started things on Ron? Oh wait... IT IS!! 'not that anybody else appears interested in voting for you anyhow'.

 

This is perhaps the absolute scummiest vote switch i've seen and believe me, i've even done a few which could look that way so i'm in a good place to judge.

 

Removing a vote because you don't want to start the lynch and because no one seems interested, saying in one post that you thought he was guilty but that he was guilty and then going on to say you don't trust him...

 

Please correct me if i'm wrong about any of this but it seems very much to be a case of 'I don't want to appear scum' but this after you already aknowledged that you were sticking your neck out, which you were happy enough to do.

 

This, the over reaction to my vote on you and probably other things i'm yet to discover (i'm going to do a full read of your posts tomorrow) and you're not looking great.

 

Vote: SMS

[Chris_Stone]

unvote

 

Sorry that was actually meant to be a Massive FOS - damn my tired mind.

 

As I say though i'm looking through the rest of your votes tomorrow, don't be surprised if it does become a vote.

[Chris_Stone]

Lol, i seem to have 'votes' on my mind -'looking through the rest of your posts'**

 

Just saw your latest post SMS and it seems fair enough, can i ask specifically what changed your mind on Ron? suspecting him is fine, I think most have at some point in this game suspected him i just didn't like your posts regarding it and the way you removed your vote.

[Mafia Scum Scum]

I have tried to work out a possible game set up using what limited info we have.

 

The combination of Ron now attempting to defend himself to me with a reasonable response, the scum doctor role (scum needs protecting from someone / something), as well as the bulletproof role all seem to suggest I might have been in the wrong.

 

I can't totally dismiss him, or anyone else for that matter, but there doesn't appear to be as strong a case as I originally thought.

 

For the record Chris, when I voted Ron, I revoted for him after the votes were wiped and straight away on this day, so you can't say I have been throwing my votes around as I have stuck to my one main suspect.

 

Quick question though, you know what I am like and that my play is a bit odd, so why do you believe my early post is any different to how I normally play?

 

I admit I sometimes over react, that is because I sometimes allow myself to get too involved in these games, but that is just me I'm afraid.

 

If you suspect me though Chris, please put your vote on my early, as time is running out and we need to declare our top 2 or 3 suspects ASAP and maybe get the vote in 24 hours early.

 

This is because we don't know if we will have our votes wiped again and I would rather lose one days discussion than have another no vote.

[Chris_Stone]

Quick question though, you know what I am like and that my play is a bit odd, so why do you believe my early post is any different to how I normally play?

 

it's been quite some time since we played together and people seem to have changed the way they play or at least are much better at hiding tells than previously.

 

At this point SMS i was just pointing out my suspicions and you must admit, if that had come from someone you may have also looked at it and been a bit o.O.

 

I was actually generally looking through the game, mostly from the vote reset / start of this day and those couple of posts from you stuck out in my mind, thus my bringing them up. Does it make me suspect you? Yes and it gives me enough to put an FOS on you, but it's not vote worthy by my own admitance and your reasoning for ron seems fine, the lack of it at the time and the fairly non-commital posts and slight contradictions / quick ideology change was what caused me to notice those posts, i'm happy enough you've cleared it up for the most part but my eye is on you and i'll still be looking over your posts for anything else.

 

I must say, i'm looking forward to Teedys thoughts on the game which he should be posting later

[Chris_Stone]

Bristep just a quick question:

 

You're bullet-proof and if the day killer targetted you today that's why we haven't seen a kill, although surely the day killer (scum or SK) should have targetted Ron, especially when it started to seem like Ron was not to be the lynch target? Unless of course Ron is actually one of these 2. I mean, even with your suspicions and such it is quite the gamble to leave Ron in the game over a breadcrumbed tracker?

 

Would you agree it's likely that one or more of these are true?:

a) Ron is infact the day killer

b) The day killer believes there is enough distance from himself and ron that he need not worry about ron right now

c) You were getting close to the day killer at some point

d) The day killer has a cooldown on his kill ability

 

as for the 'missing' night kill:

If they shot you they must have had a reason to do so, does anything stick out as to why you would be targetted? Usually we see a seemingly random shot from scum you must have done something to piss them off. Is there anyone else you can see who might have been a target from scum that night who may also have been somebody likely to gain protection if so, who would have maybe escaped scrutiny from their death, who may have been stitched up?

 

Well the second bit is the line of enquiry i'll be seeking to look down later today once i've had a sleep, we can't assume that the kill attempt was on Bristep as we may have a protector amongst us, if that's the case working out the most likely candidate for protection and who that would implicate might be helpful. Any speculation on these points is actively encouraged from absolutely anybody at this point, we need to get a case fairly quickly and i feel this may help us, or at least back up cases already out there or ready to be brought to the forefront of discussion.

[Chris B]

Vote: Teedy Kay

 

 

Teedy Kay - A game this early won't have much from Brownie. This is the argument in favour of a serial killer or day mafia kill. As a result, post 191 is utter bollocks. Post 342 - totally redundant logic. Stating the absolutely bleeding obvious. Pushing massively on Ron. If Ron is a vig, this needs to be worked out. Scum 100% want rid of him. Also pushing on the breadcrumbing, which is a bit shitty. Bad logic re: Ron not targeting him overnight.

 

Scum didn't kill last night. There's a fairly strong chance that they're the day killers, which explains their early kill - they can afford to be indiscriminate. Teedy's posts are scummy as hell. There's stalling, redundant posts which state the obvious, attacking someone who claims to have killed scum and putting out any theory other than the obvious - that the day killer is scum.

 

The only other explanation for no scum kill overnight is that the doctor was lucky.

[Retro Red]

Bristep just a quick question:

 

You're bullet-proof and if the day killer targetted you today that's why we haven't seen a kill, although surely the day killer (scum or SK) should have targetted Ron, especially when it started to seem like Ron was not to be the lynch target? Unless of course Ron is actually one of these 2. I mean, even with your suspicions and such it is quite the gamble to leave Ron in the game over a breadcrumbed tracker?

 

Would you agree it's likely that one or more of these are true?:

a) Ron is infact the day killer

b) The day killer believes there is enough distance from himself and ron that he need not worry about ron right now

c) You were getting close to the day killer at some point

d) The day killer has a cooldown on his kill ability

 

as for the 'missing' night kill:

If they shot you they must have had a reason to do so, does anything stick out as to why you would be targetted? Usually we see a seemingly random shot from scum you must have done something to piss them off. Is there anyone else you can see who might have been a target from scum that night who may also have been somebody likely to gain protection if so, who would have maybe escaped scrutiny from their death, who may have been stitched up?

 

Well the second bit is the line of enquiry i'll be seeking to look down later today once i've had a sleep, we can't assume that the kill attempt was on Bristep as we may have a protector amongst us, if that's the case working out the most likely candidate for protection and who that would implicate might be helpful. Any speculation on these points is actively encouraged from absolutely anybody at this point, we need to get a case fairly quickly and i feel this may help us, or at least back up cases already out there or ready to be brought to the forefront of discussion.

 

Thing is, it's only speculation that the daykill might have already been attempted. We have absolutely no way of knowing if it has, or if it's 1 shot/alternate days/etc either. I roleclaimed because people are caught up on setup speculation, and this is required info.

 

The only person who knows for sure what the daykiller does and why they do it is himself. Anyone else is just speculating really.

 

As for the which is most likely - Again you're acting like I've come out and said that I'm certain the daykill has already been used and it was on me. I'm not, I merely said it was possible. Of course from a straight forward scum point of view Ron would be next. I'm not going to try and second guess the actions of a lone SK if that's what we've got. They be all crazy and shit.

 

Also maybe they make the assumption that Ron would have a doctor protecting him (if there is one) and that it's not worth taking that shot. Why not take out the person who's flip would incriminate Ron the most and get him lynched instead? (Something that you've already made inroads towards with your "If Ron is town Bristep is scum, if Bristep is town Ron is scum" comment")

[Chris B]

The only person who knows for sure what the daykiller does and why they do it is himself. Anyone else is just speculating really.

 

Unless, of course, the daykiller is scum. At which point, their team knows as well.

[Ron Simmons]

God Damn it, my Masters degree has been nothing but trouble for me. First my broken leg, and now I've been diagnosed with food poisoning It's been so bad that my eardrums have burst so I can't walk around without chucking up chunks. Feel attrociously awful.

 

I've not contributed as much as I'd have liked the past few days as I've progressively gotten worse, but I can stare at a laptop screen in bed without vomitting on it, so I'll do just that.

 

Bristep's so adamant that the day killer isn't scum that it makes me doubt my vote for him. If he's indeed scum, and the scum operate during the day as I theorise, then why be so adamant that you don't? That'd give away your whole game.

 

That said, I think we should try to get a vote pushed through tonight to try and combat the obstacles of the vote blitzing that could occur. If someone's waiting to see what happens before making a move we need to lure them into making it before it's too late and we're unable to salvage our lynching option.

[Dazz]

I've missed a lot, so let me summarise where I am.

 

1) It's obvious now that there are two different Scum factions, or so I believe. The Triads (Evil people), and some other Scum faction. What the implications of this are, I don't know. Is it the day-kill that one Scum has, and a night kill that the other has? Or can they both whack at any time, leaving us in limbo?

 

2) Ron Simmons, I am still slightly suspcious of you. There's something about you that just doesn't say town to me. I've not been about, and nor have you really, but, it seems that the suspicions towards you just won't shake. And surely that's not a good thing at all? I do however agree with you pushing for a vote, but, rather than rushing a vote, we should really consider it, because, even if the vote does get blitzed (Which could have been a one time deal only), we've gotta be sure we're lynching the right people.

 

3) RE: Bristep. I'm not sure I believe his bulletproof claim, likewise, I don't think he's scum. I'm confused by Bristep at this time, and before the end of the day phase I'll have a good little peruse into his interactions in this game to get an idea of what exactly I think of him.

 

4) SMS - I don't believe you are scum. I think you are one of the town with us, I've seen nothing in my mind to suggest otherwise.

 

5) Chris B - I like your view on Teedy. Therefore.

 

Vote : Teedy Kay

[seph]

I've missed a lot, so let me summarise where I am.

 

1) It's obvious now that there are two different Scum factions, or so I believe. The Triads (Evil people), and some other Scum faction. What the implications of this are, I don't know. Is it the day-kill that one Scum has, and a night kill that the other has? Or can they both whack at any time, leaving us in limbo?

 

2) Ron Simmons, I am still slightly suspcious of you. There's something about you that just doesn't say town to me. I've not been about, and nor have you really, but, it seems that the suspicions towards you just won't shake. And surely that's not a good thing at all? I do however agree with you pushing for a vote, but, rather than rushing a vote, we should really consider it, because, even if the vote does get blitzed (Which could have been a one time deal only), we've gotta be sure we're lynching the right people.

 

3) RE: Bristep. I'm not sure I believe his bulletproof claim, likewise, I don't think he's scum. I'm confused by Bristep at this time, and before the end of the day phase I'll have a good little peruse into his interactions in this game to get an idea of what exactly I think of him.

 

4) SMS - I don't believe you are scum. I think you are one of the town with us, I've seen nothing in my mind to suggest otherwise.

 

5) Chris B - I like your view on Teedy. Therefore.

 

Vote : Teedy Kay

 

Let's clear something up. Your first two points are obviously related - If you're insistent that the two scums have alternate day/night whacks then there can't really be a full-time vig as if both are true it would mean three at-will kills and a very short game as a consequence. If Ron's had his only shot then he's VT and at this stage a natural target for the scum; yet he's playing a lot more securely than you are right now.

 

As for your last point You've done what Dan Williams did yesterday and not bothered to prove your own case, and it's an even weaker latch as you're going with someone who's been just as active in the game as you. While I don't see eye-to-eye with the Orange One I'm interested to hear his opinion on myself, especially as it may actually be rational this time.

 

Bristep, I may not have been cogent enough in my last post with you but for someone who's normally clear in asserting himself the Bulletproof claim does sound a bit uneasy, especially - as Chris S. explains - someone will want to test that. As with the last game I'm assuming that nobody gets confirmation that their secret action is a success unless it's investigative or results in a kill. Therefore if there is a town Doc as well as a he's going to be in two minds about protecting you in case a Town player dies today as a consequence.

 

FOS Bristep

[Retro Red]

Bristep, I may not have been cogent enough in my last post with you but for someone who's normally clear in asserting himself the Bulletproof claim does sound a bit uneasy, especially - as Chris S. explains - someone will want to test that. As with the last game I'm assuming that nobody gets confirmation that their secret action is a success unless it's investigative or results in a kill. Therefore if there is a town Doc as well as a he's going to be in two minds about protecting you in case a Town player dies today as a consequence.

 

FOS Bristep

 

I'd hope that if we have a town doc that he doesn't try to protect me. It'll be a redundant move as I'm already kill immune.

 

As for getting success results, I'm not sure what you're driving it with that. You get a failure message if your action cannot be completed, but no, doctors don't get a "successful protect" message. What relevance does that have to my bulletproof claim and Chris' assertion that someone would want to test it?

[Retro Red]

Bristep's so adamant that the day killer isn't scum that it makes me doubt my vote for him. If he's indeed scum, and the scum operate during the day as I theorise, then why be so adamant that you don't? That'd give away your whole game.

 

What makes me lulz is that I'm not adamant that the day killer isn't scum, I just have a different viewpoint right now. I'm open to it being true but it's not the line of logic I'm currently subscribed to. There seems to be far more adamant conjecture from the other side of the fence with people who are resolute in their belief that the day killer *is* scum and seem to use my refusal to comply with their line of thinking as scummy (or using it to paint me as scum if they are infact not town).

[Chris_Stone]

Bristep just a quick question:

 

You're bullet-proof and if the day killer targetted you today that's why we haven't seen a kill, although surely the day killer (scum or SK) should have targetted Ron, especially when it started to seem like Ron was not to be the lynch target? Unless of course Ron is actually one of these 2. I mean, even with your suspicions and such it is quite the gamble to leave Ron in the game over a breadcrumbed tracker?

 

Would you agree it's likely that one or more of these are true?:

a) Ron is infact the day killer

b) The day killer believes there is enough distance from himself and ron that he need not worry about ron right now

c) You were getting close to the day killer at some point

d) The day killer has a cooldown on his kill ability

 

as for the 'missing' night kill:

If they shot you they must have had a reason to do so, does anything stick out as to why you would be targetted? Usually we see a seemingly random shot from scum you must have done something to piss them off. Is there anyone else you can see who might have been a target from scum that night who may also have been somebody likely to gain protection if so, who would have maybe escaped scrutiny from their death, who may have been stitched up?

 

Well the second bit is the line of enquiry i'll be seeking to look down later today once i've had a sleep, we can't assume that the kill attempt was on Bristep as we may have a protector amongst us, if that's the case working out the most likely candidate for protection and who that would implicate might be helpful. Any speculation on these points is actively encouraged from absolutely anybody at this point, we need to get a case fairly quickly and i feel this may help us, or at least back up cases already out there or ready to be brought to the forefront of discussion.

 

Thing is, it's only speculation that the daykill might have already been attempted. We have absolutely no way of knowing if it has, or if it's 1 shot/alternate days/etc either. I roleclaimed because people are caught up on setup speculation, and this is required info.

 

The only person who knows for sure what the daykiller does and why they do it is himself. Anyone else is just speculating really.

 

As for the which is most likely - Again you're acting like I've come out and said that I'm certain the daykill has already been used and it was on me. I'm not, I merely said it was possible. Of course from a straight forward scum point of view Ron would be next. I'm not going to try and second guess the actions of a lone SK if that's what we've got. They be all crazy and shit.

 

Also maybe they make the assumption that Ron would have a doctor protecting him (if there is one) and that it's not worth taking that shot. Why not take out the person who's flip would incriminate Ron the most and get him lynched instead? (Something that you've already made inroads towards with your "If Ron is town Bristep is scum, if Bristep is town Ron is scum" comment")

 

Firstly allow me to say that my questions weren't trying to determine the validity of your claim, rather that they were trying to look for routes in which we could investigate down. You seem to answer these almost defensively and you even throw a little misrepping in for good meassure.

 

Let me make clear that all i was essentially asking was: Do you think anyone else other than yourself and Ron could have been targets for the night kill, if so who and who and were they likely to have been protected?

 

(Something that you've already made inroads towards with your "If Ron is town Bristep is scum, if Bristep is town Ron is scum" comment")

 

I didn't say this, if you read back on my comment what i said was the following: 'If Ron flips scum, Bristep must be town - If Bristep flips scum Ron must be town' whilst giving the possibility of it being town on town but that my gut was not to believe such.

 

This was a very defensive reply to a post just looking for your thoughts, not for evidence to incriminate you but since you want to defend yourself allow me to raise a few points:

 

I remember looking upon your tracker breadcrumbing in the early part of the game, what I noticed was that you did it a couple of times not long before Brownies death yet you stopped from that point (unless i missed something). Also, as I said your breadcrumbing was prior to Brownies death and when he came to flip as a watcher, did that make it more likely there was a tracker in the game and you didn't want to breadcrumb anymore incase of counterclaims or because such could get you shot? Not only this but surely with brownies death occuring after the breadcrumbing you should have been the target that day phase, then again I doubt a tracker would be of much concern for a day killer.

 

The bullet proof claim is fantastic, it allows you to go through the days without being lynched, it allows you to go through the night and day without being targetted and like my own theories of the past, there's evidence supporting it but nothing proving it. With a Watcher dead it's a fair assumption to say we may have a tracker in the game but fairly safe to say there's unlikely a completely sane cop anywhere in the setup and that my friend, makes disproving your claim quite difficult.

 

Infact the more i think about your role claim the more scenario's i have in my head where you could be lying - there's even one scenario where you and Ron are scum together, it's actually quite a cute theory and has very little in the way of holes. However, i've little reason to distrust your claim for the time being but that doesn't mean i'll see you as confirmed town any time soon and infact, i suggest Ron or whomever else can to test it.