Pick Your Power Game Thread

[swiftstrike]

not with only 5 pages of thread as I don't wish to alert them but two players interactions so far are interesting.

 

That's really quite anti town of you.

thank you, where as your input so far has been really quite townie...... or not. What is your opinion on the whether Bristep made a scum slip or not then Nexus?

[Retro Red]

TDK - Could you actually clarify exactly WHY Bristep immediately correcting himself makes him look scummy? If he was, as Swift suggested, trying to push that he didn't know that scum had time to change their numbers, then surely correcting himself right away would completely defeat the point? Actually, I'd quite like Swift to answer that as well.

Finley

 

Bristep corrected himself within 1 minute of posting now if he didn't know that the scum could discuss numbers and was going to check he could have done so before posting that and wouldn't of then posted it, yes? So it must have not been in his thoughts to do so for it then to appear in his thoughts and then check it out and come back here and post within the space of a minute seems suspicious.

 

As for the fact he did correct himself rather than wait for some else to do so it wouldn't matter would it, the first post sews the idea that he couldn't possibly be scum because he didn't know that and had to go check, waiting for someone else to correct him is immaterial to that point whether he self corrects or someone else does the job is done, the belief is then Bristep can't possibly be scum as he didn't know that info.

 

As much as it's frustrating having someone stand up and keep on saying "bristep did this deliberately because he is scum" when I didn't and I'm not, I understand that swift has a thread and is pulling on it, much like I did with Ron in the last game.

 

For Swift to lead such a (in my opinion, I must state that because I've gone on record before as saying I hate it when people present opinion as fact) flimsy wagon so early on is suicide for him on day 2 if I am lynched today. For him to be scum it's such a ballsy dumb move, he'd be candidate number one for the next lynching when I flip town that I just can't see him being scum at the moment.

 

End of the day, this is going to go down to whether people believe my word or swift's theory. Right now, so early on I don't think either is strong enough for people to put faith in, and it could end up leaving us scrambling for a lynch later on because we were distracted by this (or worse, have either Swift or I end up lynched which isn't good for the town because I'm not scum and at this stage I don't think Swift is either).

 

If you truly believe I'm scum Swift, then make a stronger case because this has clearly divided the game.

 

I fully believe at this point that Teedy Kay is scum. This is who I would like to see lynched at this stage. Spotlight is an acceptable alternate, but Teedy is my first choice.

[swiftstrike]

I have tried righting this post 4 times and can't answer your point without revealling some thought process that removes the chance of finding scum.

 

I think you may have slipped but I don't actual think you should be the lynch, risk vs reward is to great but pushing you let's me see who is willing to wagon you early and who is willing do defend you early, this helps with later working out who is scum and who isn't which is why I push votes hard on day 1.

 

given I have revealed that

 

UNVOTE

[Retro Red]

bristep how did you get that to do 2 separate posts there?

 

Manipulating the mechanics of the forum? Seems a bit scummy to me.

 

Anyway, seen as we're past the RVS, I may as well unvote for the time being.

 

I wouldn't want the town getting sidetracked by the whole numbers thing, if swiftstrike is happy enough to use the numerology in his arguments, then fair enough, but without some rock-solid reasoning and/or evidence to accompany them, I'd more than likely disregard them as a method of scum-hunting.

 

TDK's use of language, whilst intriguing, is not necessarily scummy. It indicates he is trying to start a wagon, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's because he's trying to get a townie lynched, more that he's trying to get a player lynched. Yes it could be because he's scum, but equally it could be because he believes bristep is scum and is trying to get his argument across.

 

Personally, I don't think bristep is scum based on the facts presented by swift and TDK, and don't think their arguments are solid enough to entice me to vote. Again, to clarify, that doesn't mean I think swift and TDK are scum because I don't agree with them, simply that I don't think they are correct in their accusations.

 

A lot of "I don't thinks" in there, anyone you do find remotely scummy yet?

[Retro Red]

Right, my actions aren't scummy at all.

 

I believe Bristep made quite a fundamental slip up, and I think Swifty may have come across something by highlighting it.

 

-=The use of language=-

 

I'm going to break this down and give counter language examples to try and wrap up this absolutely ludicrous wagon against me.

 

"I think a nail may have been hit on the head here, not willing to vote yet, need to let the day progress just that touch more, however"

 

Notice the word 'THINK' this clearly highlights a thought process, it does not in any way indicate a clear decision bought from fact, at the moment there is only assumption that could be made from such an early post as Bristep's.

 

He either did what he said, or did what Swiftstrike said. I leaned towards Swiftstrike, because I honestly believe there may have been an early slip there, not the words 'may have been'. Nothing is for definite, hence why I FOS'ed and didnt VOTE.

 

"I think a nail may have been hit on the head here, not willing to vote yet, need to let the day progress just that touch more, however"

 

Yup told you all in that exact post I wasn't willing to vote, this is because of the word THINK being in the first line of the sentance.

 

"I think a nail may have been hit on the head here, not willing to vote yet, need to let the day progress just that touch more, however"

 

I believe the slip 'could' yield a result, but I'm not jumping into a vote at this moment in time

 

What you lot are accusing me of saying is this:

 

"A nail has been hit on the head here, want to vote but I'll wait a wee while, once more have I'll jump on this bad boy"

 

To claim I am actually starting a Wagon is ridiculous, a point has been highlighted by Swift, I think it's an extremely valid point, and in this whole thread so far has been the most incriminating bit of posting, I however am the one advocating the notion of patience, to let the game go on, to see if others slip, to gain ideas and thought from everyone else before snatching at a lynch. It is in fact an anti-wagon that I have started if you truly break it down and look at it.

 

I love that you respond to accusations of cagey wordplay by pointing out all of your cagey wordplay.

 

Nobody has claimed you started the wagon, Swift started it quite obviously by a) making the post and b) by voting for me. What I am saying is that you did want to jump on the wagon on me, but knowing how scummy that would look you didn't, and merely gave your support of it but with enough caveats to exonerate yourself when you jump on it later on and I flip town.

[Teedy Kay]

I thought the whole '48 hours to talk and change numbers' was fairly clear. I can understand he made a mistake but then when people started to question how quick he was to clear it up, I thought maybe it was a little speedy.

 

See, I've taken this exact same opinion of Bristep's Mistake/FuckUp.

 

So clear that you both just got the hours mixed up.

 

You had 24 hours to discuss and change names

You had 48 hours to discuss and submit role requests

 

Yes so Teedy Kay and spotlight are scum, folks I'd like to see some of those FOS's on Kay turn into votes.

 

Bristep, please, for you to get all these FOS's turned into votes, please show me where I've even mentioned hours at all?

 

Nobody has claimed you started the wagon

 

Yes they have

 

Seems like a case of, again, trying to distance himself from the scum by setting the seeds for a wagon but not jumping onto it

 

Bristep, I really do believe that you have slipped up, the reason I did not vote was because it was early in the game and I wanted more from other people, before I finalised a vote, I don't want to waste a vote through a paranoid jump. Now that is either what you are doing, or the more likely, your VERY early slip up has cost you your position and highlighted you to buggery.

 

Your case on me is flimsy and based on flights of fancy, I could vote for you but I'll stick to my original plan of seeing this day phase through and seeing who else could be brought to our attention.

 

The fact certain people are coming after me on the basis of Bristep possibly fucking up, and Swiftstrike highlighting it (now that's surreal) is interesting, take note folks in case I do come to an end early on.

 

Another thing I'll ask is this, when I'm L-2 leave me for a while, I'll accept my lynching as it'll bring others (scum) to the forefront, I just want to give out my draft pick information before I go, fair enough?

[Ron Simmons]

Finally, your choice of using 'us and them' for Town & Scum respectively, in more than one post, is suspicious in itself as nobody had questionned your alignment before me, that's why the minor suss.

Seph, that's the terminology used in these games - if you look in a lot of people's posts you'll see they use "we." I've not used "them" for the scum, but if you mean I mentioned "the scum" and then started referring to them as "they" in the rest of the post? Well, what else would you do? Referring to the town as "we" collectively isn't something you should get hung up on.

 

As for the Bristep/swiftstrike exchange? I don't fully trust anybody, but I do feel swiftstrike is getting hung up on a "slip" that isn't one. It really reminds me of a few games ago where swiftstrike built a really odd case on Bristep, which in turn (I think) lead to the lynching of swift. Turned out they were both town. I think you're a good player swift, don't get me wrong, but I think there's a part of you that really fancies the challenge of "uncovering" a good player such as Bristep. And I think that's a pretty dangerous attitude.

[Retro Red]

Bristep, please, for you to get all these FOS's turned into votes, please show me where I've even mentioned hours at all?

You agreed with Spotlight, despite him being wrong. I didn't say you mentioned the hours, can you point out where I said you mentioned the hours? Oh that's right, you can't because I didn't. Really, please continue to twist statements.

 

Bristep, I really do believe that you have slipped up, the reason I did not vote was because it was early in the game and I wanted more from other people, before I finalised a vote, I don't want to waste a vote through a paranoid jump. Now that is either what you are doing, or the more likely, your VERY early slip up has cost you your position and highlighted you to buggery.

Voting me from L-8 to L-7 is "wasting a vote"? See it's stuff like this which is just really anti-town to me. If you *thought* that Swift *may* have hit a nail on the head then the sensible option is to add your vote and put pressure on me. We know that there are 4 scum in the game, so unless I'm at L-5 or less there's no danger of your vote causing an immediate mislynch. I don't buy that as a thought process. I just don't.

 

Your case on me is flimsy and based on flights of fancy.

No it's not, it's a very strong case based on your actions and words. See, see how easy it is to present opinion as fact?

 

The fact certain people are coming after me on the basis of Bristep possibly fucking up, and Swiftstrike highlighting it (now that's surreal) is interesting, take note folks in case I do come to an end early on.

"Bristep possibly fucking up" goes against your earlier statement in the same post "Bristep, I really do believe that you have slipped up". It's contradictions like this which make me happy with my vote.

 

Another thing I'll ask is this, when I'm L-2 leave me for a while, I'll accept my lynching as it'll bring others (scum) to the forefront, I just want to give out my draft pick information before I go, fair enough?

How very noble. Of course a noble statement can make you look more like a martyr than a squirming scum caught in a net.

[Chris B]

Okay, two points:

 

A - Swift, what are your thoughts on my earlier post?

 

B - For the first time, we start a game with information. Anyone who chose a role that has been taken by someone else, and so is vanilla, knows that it's a role that is active in the game.

 

Now, I'm not sure what the best way to try and share that information is. One way would be for vanillas to identify themselves and explain what they went for and missed out on. Is anybody in favour of that idea? (NOTE - I'm not saying 'quick, out yourself'. I'm saying let's discuss it as a potential strategy).

 

Pros - it's not like the scum don't know who town are already.

Cons - Scum can pinpoint the power roles.

Pros - due to the number crunching, scum can probably do that already to an extent.

Cons - Scum can pretend to be vanilla in order to try and throw people off the right track.

 

So, I can see some advantages to this, for the first time in a game, since vanilla players have some information. What are your thoughts?

 

A - which one?

 

The one where I gave my thoughts on Bristep's 'slip', and also my reasoning for finding TDK suspicious.

 

B- more useful later one for example at this moment knowing there is a cop in this game reveals nothing to us apart from the fact there is a cop in the game, and they could be either town or scum so no real useful info there. it becomes more useful later when we force scum to claim as then they are forced to take a position and possibly lie, after all I can't see anyone admitting to taking either the janitor or framer roles which are pure scum roles so if scum have taken them then claim something else which someone above them can say they can't be as I was denied it or someone above them saying I have that role it becomes useful.

 

Fair point. It doesn't' seem to have caught anyone's imagination anyway, so it's a no-goer anyway.

[swiftstrike]

It could be anti-wagoning. It could also be trying to get a wagon going without looking like you're either starting it or boarding it. Keeping a level of deniability is definitely a scum trick. I know it is, because I've done it.

by anti wagoning do you mean starting a wagon to draw heat away from another wagon in which case who? The other point yes it could be the case at the same time isn't it interesting who came and defended Bristep always worth keeping an eye on because if town it could be both town and scum if scum it could be other scum mates.

 

What is your opinion on Lion, Chris?

[Chris B]

It could be anti-wagoning. It could also be trying to get a wagon going without looking like you're either starting it or boarding it. Keeping a level of deniability is definitely a scum trick. I know it is, because I've done it.

 

So if I drown I'm not a witch, but if I survive I am and I get burned at the stake?

 

How about you read what I'm saying, take the fact I'm 100% open about what I've said and would be willing to add to it, and realise that of all your options, I'm anti-wagoning.

 

How about I note that the one bit in your sentence that you didn't highlight was 'nail may have been hit on the head here'. That's pretty certain language, but it's been surrounded by uncertain language. It's not 'I think he's onto something' or 'I think he may have something here'. It's 'I think the nail may have been hit on the head'.

 

I'm seeing this as scummy because I'm looking out for the players in this round who are stirring, but trying to keep plausible deniability once the lynch actually goes ahead.

 

Scum are trying to do two contradictory things during day phases. Firstly, they try to lynch people, and secondly, they try not to look like they're trying to lynch people. The easiest way to do that is to avoid voting, but push a case on someone - with enough in there to pretend you weren't doing so. Your FOS absolutely stunk of that.

 

And since it's been brought up, since then you've been highlighting just how you did that, and making out that it's an absolute fiction and based on nothing. If you were, at least, saying that you could see why it seemed so, that'd be one thing, but you're getting hugely defensive instead.

 

Vote: TeeDeeKay

[unfitfinlay]

surely correcting himself right away would completely defeat the point?

 

It could also drive home the point, a quick realisation of his fuck up.

 

Especially as it seemed to be an initial waylaying of the idea that the actual number picking for the draft is of great importance to the game, which it can be folks.

 

But as you say, it could defeat the point.

 

Hell that's the whole reason I FOS'ed it and didn't VOTE.

 

I need more before I can commit.

 

If he was trying to waylay the idea that numbers are a big part of the game then, again, why would he immediately correct himself? It's not like he would look more scummy by waiting for someone else to correct him and then go "Oh right, I must've missed that".

 

No, he doesn't. He WOULD have a point if he'd been going after me (since I wasn't very active in the last game) or one of the players who haven't posted much in this game yet but, as it is, it feels like he's attempting to distract from the issues at hand.

 

Oh and this is clear bullshit, I'm not going after anyone, all I'm putting across is that we need to wait to hear from everyone, it's VERY Mike Castle, but I feel necessary.

 

Unfitfinlay, just to add about your inactive play last game, I didn't even know you were in that game. That is what I don't want this game, by creating a wagon and having it pushed through people can go easily unnoticed, by asking for thoughts and opinions of everyone, we can get a greater understanding of everyone within the game. It's what undid us last game.

 

So I'm not distracting from the issue, I'm highlighting the reason I FOS'ed and didn't VOTE so early on.

 

Fair point. It just struck me as a bit out of place in the context of what's going on right now.

 

I thought the point of Teedy's post was to keep an eye out for those who haven't posted much or seem unwilling to post so much. I'm not full heartedly agreeing with Teedy and even said I concur with tom's theory on his first post of the game in the same post.

 

This is interesting since I never said you were agreeing with Teedy, just that I thought his point was irrelevant. You come across very defensive here.

 

I am suspicious of Bristep because quite honestly, I thought the whole '48 hours to talk and change numbers' was fairly clear. I can understand he made a mistake but then when people started to question how quick he was to clear it up, I thought maybe it was a little speedy. I read that he was fast, and started to wonder if maybe he was some distracting us with a silly point, but then decided against it, for whatever reason.

 

Again, though, if Bristep is scum then I fail to see how clearing up that mistake so quickly helps their cause at all. For what it's worth, if you go back and look his original response to Swiftstrike came one minute after Swift posted. Unless he and Swift are both scum then it seems reasonable to assume that he just typed his correction really fast as well.

[Chris B]

It could be anti-wagoning. It could also be trying to get a wagon going without looking like you're either starting it or boarding it. Keeping a level of deniability is definitely a scum trick. I know it is, because I've done it.

by anti wagoning do you mean starting a wagon to draw heat away from another wagon in which case who?

 

This is an interesting point here, swift. Didn't you spot what I was referring to?

 

To claim I am actually starting a Wagon is ridiculous, a point has been highlighted by Swift, I think it's an extremely valid point, and in this whole thread so far has been the most incriminating bit of posting, I however am the one advocating the notion of patience, to let the game go on, to see if others slip, to gain ideas and thought from everyone else before snatching at a lynch. It is in fact an anti-wagon that I have started if you truly break it down and look at it.

 

It could be anti-wagoning. It could also be trying to get a wagon going without looking like you're either starting it or boarding it. Keeping a level of deniability is definitely a scum trick. I know it is, because I've done it.

 

Why specify MY use of 'anti-wagoning', when I was blatantly responding directly to TDK? He was using 'anti-wagoning' in the sense of avoiding a wagon going too early. I obviously responded to that. It's the previous sentence to mine. Why did you lose the context there?

 

 

The other point yes it could be the case at the same time isn't it interesting who came and defended Bristep always worth keeping an eye on because if town it could be both town and scum if scum it could be other scum mates.

 

I had a feeling that, when you mentioned the two players you were finding interesting, it was probably Bristep and me. The truth is that I don't think the self-answering is particularly scummy, but I also think it makes you more likely to be town as well - scum wouldn't be likely to try to jump that early. Unless, of course, they were trying to play against their usual type.

 

That said...

 

What is your opinion on Lion, Chris?

 

I don't have an opinion. The RVS and an unvote are all that he's done. I don't tend to read anything into RVSing other than humour.

 

However, here's a better question. What is your opinion on TDK? This is the kind of scum-hunting you're usually all over, but instead, you're avoiding discussing him at all.

[swiftstrike]

Chris I wasn't referring to you and bristep.

 

Do you not think it's odd that both you and lion choose exactly the same numbers and the he randomly chooses a vote to go for and it's you again what are the chances of that?

[Teedy Kay]

Right then, due to me witless nature I'm getting this out the way now.

 

I truly can not be arsed with this game when it comes down to the breaking up and reading of one sentence as a possibility of a lynch, even though I have quite clearly explained the meaning of that sentence, and where I am with gameplay.

 

I am Vanilla Townie, I opted to aim high and go for Odd Night Vigilante, just on the off chance, so someone above me has that role for future reference.

 

and to think the reason I'm being off'd is because I didn't Vote, it was one of two things that I as Vanilla Townie had going for me