The Orton/Triple H clusterfuck

[Dashing]

Lately I've been watching a lot of PPV's from 2009. And the earlier ones bring it all back to me what a colossal fuck up WWE made of the Randy Orton/Triple H feud.

 

As most of you will probably remember, Orton was put out by Triple H in mid 2008 after Orton broke his collarbone at Extreme Rules (then still known as One Night Stand too). The feud itself however was based upon a lot of past history between the two, including the Evolution days, the Rated RKO vs DX feud and also the No Mercy 2007 clashes they had.

 

The booking was baffling though. Orton cracks McMahon about the head and this is supposed to make him a heel? Doesn't really make a lot of sense. Firstly, Orton is bad-ass enough to smash his boss in the head 3 times within a few seconds after refusing to apologise to him. Secondly, McMahon is a huge, on screen cunt. So is his daughter whom Orton had also wronged.

 

Orton runs riot until the flabby, ageing, annoying and also cuntish Shane McMahon turns up and somehow is able to get through Legacy to beat up on Orton. Orton drops him at No Way Out and then eventually breaks his ankle.

 

Orton loses to Triple H at Mania in a match which cops a lot of unfair flack in my view before winning the Championship at Backlash.

 

WWE then get rid of Orton's bad-ass aura until late 2009, by making him a typical chicken shit heel who is always hiding behind Legacy and trying to get himself DQ'd in matches with John Cena.

 

[KillerTwist]

Orton has always been bland as fuck to me, as a heel and as a face. The only time I've ever found him engaging was during his legend killer phase, the fued against Foley in particular. WWE don't seem to have a great deal of faith in him either, his booking is always all over the place.

[Michael_3165]

Orton has always been bland as fuck to me, as a heel and as a face. The only time I've ever found him engaging was during his legend killer phase, the fued against Foley in particular. WWE don't seem to have a great deal of faith in him either, his booking is always all over the place.

 

This! In my mind, no matter how awesome the booking could be for Orton he does nothing for me and is bland as hell so either way I wouldn't have been interested

[air_raid]

Orton cracks McMahon about the head and this is supposed to make him a heel?

 

Orton was already a heel.

 

Secondly, McMahon is a huge, on screen cunt. So is his daughter whom Orton had also wronged.

 

I think we were supposed to forget about Steph being an on screen "cunt" since to the best of my recollection whenever she had been on screen (correct me if I'm wrong) since her GM days of 02-03 she has been portrayed as nicey-nicey or just kind of normal, and in the context of the angle she was just "concerned daughter" which thus would draw sympathy for Hunter as "enraged husband" when she got attacked. They really do underestimate the loathing the McMahons (Steph especially) have created within a lot of fans over the years. At least Vinny can draw a little shock (if not actual sympathy) from being twatted, like when Nexus attempted senicide on him, rather than Steph whose misfortune prompts a lot of people to go "YAAAAYYYYYY!!!"

 

WWE then get rid of Orton's bad-ass aura until late 2009, by making him a typical chicken shit heel who is always hiding behind Legacy and trying to get himself DQ'd in matches with John Cena.

 

The problem is if you are too good at being "bad-ass" you end up cheered, whereas the "chicken shit" / escape artist is a well-trodden path to rabid boos observed by Honky, Money Inc, JBL and other cretins. Would you want to run the risk of male WWE fan 18-30 in the stands thinking "Orton is a bad ass, I much prefer him to the pandering, over bearing, childish buffoon John Cena," or do you do everything in your power to try and make your fans react to your top heel by going ??

 

WWE don't seem to have a great deal of faith in him either,

 

How many other wrestlers on the roster that WWE don't have a "great deal of faith in" have won a world title seven times?

[RepoMan]

I think, with Orton, it's not a case of 'lack of faith' but often they seem to stumble across on something better at the time.

[Dashing]

I know he was a heel already, I just worded it badly.

[KillerTwist]

How many other wrestlers on the roster that WWE don't have a "great deal of faith in" have won a world title seven times?

 

Because he's a reliable hand. Orton's a good wrestler, far better than The Miz, but I'd still rather watch The Miz. I agree with RepoMan, he's the go-to-guy when there's nothing better.

[air_raid]

Because he's a reliable hand. Orton's a good wrestler, far better than The Miz, but I'd still rather watch The Miz. I agree with RepoMan, he's the go-to-guy when there's nothing better.

 

To consider him a reliable hand or go-to-guy in your parlance sounds like faith to me. Hitman scored a couple of title reigns off being a reliable hand when the next big thing fell on its face, after all.

 

I see what you are saying though, they have never positioned Orton as "the man." Personally I think that has less to do with faith in any other wrestler or more to do with the stubborn reluctance to present anyone other than Cena as the star of the show.

[KillerTwist]

Because he's a reliable hand. Orton's a good wrestler, far better than The Miz, but I'd still rather watch The Miz. I agree with RepoMan, he's the go-to-guy when there's nothing better.

 

To consider him a reliable hand or go-to-guy in your parlance sounds like faith to me. Hitman scored a couple of title reigns off being a reliable hand when the next big thing fell on its face, after all.

 

I see what you are saying though, they have never positioned Orton as "the man." Personally I think that has less to do with faith in any other wrestler or more to do with the stubborn reluctance to present anyone other than Cena as the star of the show.

 

Perhaps I should have worded it differently. They see him as someone who is safe and reliable, but they don't see him as someone who can carry the company. And rightly so, in my opinion.

[Magnum]

Orton has always been bland as fuck to me, as a heel and as a face. The only time I've ever found him engaging was during his legend killer phase, the fued against Foley in particular. WWE don't seem to have a great deal of faith in him either, his booking is always all over the place.

 

This! In my mind, no matter how awesome the booking could be for Orton he does nothing for me and is bland as hell so either way I wouldn't have been interested

 

You're entitled to your opinion - I feel the same way about Cena - but looking at it from as objective a point of view as I can manage, the crowd reactions alone suggested they were onto something special with Orton around the time of the Vince punt. He was getting the sort of rabid, Attitude-level heel heat that's only really been seen in the last several years for Cena at ONS.

But a heel who keeps getting cleanly pinned is going to struggle to maintain that sort of heat. That he didn't reach the heights he should have was absolutely a question of booking, and it's because they do everything backwards these days - instead of letting a heel get heat on a babyface for months until the crowd are dying to see him finally get put in his place, they have the babyface beat him at the first attempt and THEN try and get his heat back. They did exactly the same thing with Wade Barrett last year.

 

As far as the perception of him being bland - I think a lot of that is down to his slow, methodical style and his usually monotone delivery in interviews. That probably renders him limited as an all-round performer and a bit shit as a babyface, but it was absolutely perfect for the cold, calculating psycho heel role he was playing at the time.

[ColinBollocks]

It was clear mid-2010 WWE were actually positioning Randy Orton as their no. 1 babyface. He was always potrayed as invincible during that period and even got a couple of clean(ish) wins over John Cena. The point where they lost faith was when he got a babyface run with the title and he was absolute shite in his role. A couple of defences into his reign WWE put all their focus back on John Cena. So WWE did see him as THE man but he's a bit boring as a babyface.

[andrew "the ref" coyne]

The booking was baffling though. Orton cracks McMahon about the head and this is supposed to make him a heel? Doesn't really make a lot of sense. Firstly, Orton is bad-ass enough to smash his boss in the head 3 times within a few seconds after refusing to apologise to him. Secondly, McMahon is a huge, on screen cunt. So is his daughter whom Orton had also wronged.

 

Nah I disagree. In my opinion it was good booking but the reason for it was not to make Orton more of a heel, but rather as a mechanic in the storyline. I.e. it was a cliff hanger. Orton had just punted his boss and because of it you wanted to tune into the Rumble / the next raw to see what the consequence of this action was.

 

Will Orton be fired? How will McMahon react? Will McMahon recover from the punt of doom? How will the creative team get out of this corner booking wise?

 

Personally when it happened, the first thing I did the following morning was watch it on YouTube. And I loved how Orton came up with a bullshit reason for his actions; he had a psychological condition / illness that the WWE failed to recognise AND he had won the Rumble so if you did fire him the wwe would rob him of his contractually obligated title shot and he'd sue them for every penny.

 

Personally I loved it. Awesome.

[d-d-d-dAz]

Orton's biggest problem, without question, is not they don't have faith in his ability but they don't trust him to not go native the minute they give him the ball. The reason why he never really goes through his own personal glass ceiling is because they always book an implicit get out clause for themselves, never going all-in like they do with Cena.

[Fatty Facesitter]

What sticks out for me is the awful Wrestlemania main event between Orton and Trips. Absolute dogshit, but in all fairness the crowd was knackered after Taker/HBK anyway and Cena's title match prior to it. After months of build up though, the match just never clicked. I understand the babyface traditionally prevails in the Wrestlemania main event, but Orton was just made to look like a complete and utter scrub against HHH and I'd say that was the wrong decision.

 

On Orton, sometimes I enjoy him, other times I think he needs to have something more about him. He's the closest person in terms of character to Steve Austin that WWE has in this decade and I think he should be pushed as such. This means more cheeky, smart ass remarks towards other wrestlers, having a DTA approach to both faces and heels, having cooler T-shirts fly off the shelves and generally being more smug in the ring. Instead of being so intense, maybe he needs to lighten up a little and be a little more cocky. Not to the point where it's cheesy, but like, say, Batista cocky just before he turned on Evolution.

[King Pitcos]

The thing with him making smart-ass remarks is he's not very good at talking. Orton's never going to be able to pull off witty comebacks and all that. If they tried to go down that route, he'd struggle and it'd only further emphasise the gap between him and Cena.