OOOLD SCHOOOOL

[wandshogun09]

They also omitted the Hitman/Vader match, although that was commercially available on Bret's "Pink & Black Attack" tape.

 

Was that the one where Bret wore plain white boots and Shawn Michaels was taking the piss on commentary?

[IANdrewDiceClay]

I'm certain there was a fuck up in luggage or something. He wore all white boots, black knee pads on pink tights (which he never did since his days in ther Hart Foundation) and his elbow pad (not pads) were like the ones the Undertaker wore, as opposed to the ones with the white trim around it. His outfit looked like a prototype that WWE would keep in the production truck in case of emergencies as well. There was no logos were all colourless on it and it didn't have any text. And the tank top had no trim around the neck and the logo was so far off centre it was almost falling off. If I know what I know now about Demolition Ax not putting his Brylcreem on at Survivor Series 90, I'd have thought he was on the way out. But I'm saying his home kit was misplaced and they had to give him a shite prototype singlet that wasn't finished and he had to borrow a pair of boots and pads.

[air_raid]

Was that the one where Bret wore plain white boots and Shawn Michaels was taking the piss on commentary?

 

Yes. In particular stuff like "hope it's not a Russian legsweep!" after Bret punches Vader in the gut and then "it's the same thing all the time." It's not quite the sulk he was in at "It's Time" but yeah.... I hated him at the time.

[air_raid]

I didn't watch as much as I thought I would today, but here are my assorted thoughts on Clash of the Champions XXXII, 24 hours after the Nitro where Savage, Sting & Luger won big.

 

** Tony Schiavone refers to the ending of last night's tag title match by saying : "Lex Luger obviously used SOMETHING..." we know exactly what he used, you thick fuck. Did you watch Nitro on mute or something??

 

** Public Enemy cut an embarrassing rap promo prior to their match with the Nasty Boys, who come out to their embarrassing sing-a-long entrance theme. Thankfully the match is chaotic and plays to both teams' strength, so it's OK to watch. Hilariously, Brain and Tony agree that Nick Patrick is doing the right thing letting them fight on because if he disqualifies them they'll just carry on fighting... mere seconds before Patrick calls for the bell.

 

Tony : "Where's Jerry Sags going?"

Brain : "He's not going for a shower. It's not Saturday."

 

** I miss that blue ring with the yellow crosshairs on and yellow turnbuckle pads. It was quintessentially "WCW."

 

** Before the Malenko v Alex Wright match they show Malenko trying to cripple Alex with the Texas Cloverleaf on Saturday Night. I'm shocked that wasn't interpreted as a babyface turn. Said match ends with a Malenko jacknife pin which Wright blatantly kicks out of at 2, but Randy Anderson counts anyway. Lots of screwy finishes so far, and not intentionally screwy, but "someone ballsed up" screwy.

 

** When the Road Warriors come out for the surprise return (that they gave away the night before) during an interview with Sting & Lex, Sting is way too buddy-buddy with the two guys that blatantly have come looking for their belts. Luger really takes the piss saying they can't give them a title shot because they owe a rematch to Harlem Heat and they also have obligations to "the Nasty Boys, the American Males, State Patrol...."

Bischoff : "State Patrol??"

Luger then says that with Animal's previous back injury, he'd hate to put him in the rack first match back and put him out for good. What a bastard.

 

** The old Horsemen music always made me think "something good is about to happen" and it still does. Here, it's Pillman vs Eddy.

Brain : "The man has really changed his personality. Something has overcome this man." Truer words never said. Until later, when he refines the analogy to "He's nuts." Of course not long after Pillman gets his hands all over Brain's jacket and he exclaims, LOUDLY, "What the FUCK are you doing?" then nearly walks out.

 

Brain regains his composure by saying : "I'd like to apologize if I said anything I shouldn't have or off-colour or anything but... I mean I mean, the man was going for my neck, he was going.. I was, I was concerned for my own well-being. He's a loose cannon, he'll turn on anyone, and if I said something I shouldn't have, I apologize." Best of all when Tony suggests that Brain would now rather see Eddy win, ever the pro, Bobby replies "No, I still like Pillman's style. I just dont want him to put his paws on me."

Tony : "If this is the new IV Horsemen, I'll be the first to say that this elite group has gone downhill." Oh, belt up Schiavone. As opposed to the last incarnation that had Paul Roma in it? After Pillman gets the win with a little help from pulling the tights, Pillman tries his hardest to "accidentally" end up in the Brain's lap again as he scoots out of the ring. What a handful he was, eh?

 

** Hogan and Savage come out for an interview with Kevin Greene and afterwards argue about who gets to "take Liz out on the town" after the match. Savage to Greene : "You might have a better time and an easier time with the Dallas Cowboys!" Hogan to Savage : "Well we know that she's more than you can handle dude!" Hmm.

 

** Sting & Luger come out for their match (with the Bluebloods) to Luger's music - seems fair, they came out for their interview to "Man Called Sting." Sting smacks hands, Luger ignores them and jiggles his pecs, even while walking to the ring. We're getting there. Luger is still just "heel" rather than "super smarmy git." Regal bumps off a shoulderblock and sells like he's got a sword going through his back, really over the top. Sting shouts "Come on, your Lordship!" Nice touch.

 

** Schiavone shills the hotline by mentioning an interview with Tenay getting Bischoff's reaction to "certain skits being used by another wrestling organization." Well, we've already had that for free on Nitro! He got a kick out of them, he said. Dickheads.

 

** Bizarre finish in Konnan v Psicosis where Konnan hits a release spider German suplex (WTF!) then climbs to the top rope only to drop back down into the ring and apply a standing figure-4 on Psicosis while doing a muscle pose, and the ref calls for the bell because Psicosis gave up, even though he didn't look in much pain. Vegas is a bit mystified by that one. K-Dog seemed to really half-arse it for... well, his whole career, really.

 

** Bischoff mentions "all you computer nuts" can check out WCW on CompuServe (is that related to CompuGlobalHyperMeganet?) by typing "go convention." It's like watching black and white footage of people trying out the first horseless carriage for tuppence ha'penny.

 

** Pillman has an interview and threatens to "rifle off the seven" i.e. words you can't say on TV. Bischoff looks shit-scared.

 

** The wedding of Sherri and Col Parker gets the semi-main position. Madusa interrupts by attacking Sherri at the vital moment, which considering it was a harmless comedy skit, seems pretty heelish. During the ensuing fight, Disco just stands around not knowing what to do, while Harlem Heat piss themselves. That's pretty funny.

 

** Michael Buffer being booked to announce the main event of the free show seems a complete waste of money to me, although not as grandiose as later on when he's showing up at every Nitro. He introduces the Mouth as "The Mouth Of The South, Gentleman Jimmy Hart" and proclaims that Giant "defied death at Halloween Havoc" - that's nearly as daft as the time he introduced Sting and Luger at a combined weight of eight hundred fifty-two pounds. Bellend.

 

Flair coming to the ring to the Dungeon's music - to ANYBODY ELSES' music - seems really weird to me, as if he isn't the star of his team?? Savage, the new World Champion, has to trudge out to American Made, like we didn't know who the star of his team is. That pair of wallys come out with Kev, Woman, four random girls, then Liz comes out to get her own pop. I think Liz is just wearing a push-up here, this is definitely before she had them done. Buffer reacts to the sight of Liz by exclaiming "Ladies And Gentlemen! This is unbelievable!!" - somebody really should have told him that everybody knew Liz would be there because Bischoff blurted it out the night before on Nitro, and he and the Brain have been talking about her all night.

 

It's only now that it dawns on me how lucky the Giant/Big Show has been to carve out a proper career because here he comes across as just another freakshow for Hogan to go through. Schiavone and Heenan spend too long making comparisons to the Mania III main event for my liking. Flair naturally pins Savage to lay claim to the next title shot. After the match Hogan and Greene repel run-ins from Pillman and Zodiac. The fans in Vegas dislike Hogan and don't give a shit about Greene, and at this point, neither do I.

 

On the whole it's a hell of a mixed bag of a show but the talented guys and good matches comfortably outweight the dross, although there are too many instances of commentators, announcers or referees seemingly not really knowing what's going on, that all make you think "this wouldn't happen in the WWF."

 

** My DVD has some UWF at the end, taped in the build-up to Starrcade '87, which is obviously shitloads better than Clash XXXII. It's ripped from an almost unwatchable tape, but still - Rick Steiner with hair! Schiavone's tache! JR referring to Flair as merely "4-time World Champion!" Magnum looking the boss! Missy fucking Hyatt!

[Devon Malcolm]

Heenan's work during that incident with Pillman is AMAZING. Seriously, halfway through his comments when he comes back on to the headset, he turns it from a shoot into kayfabe again and actually puts Pillman's loose cannon gimmick over by doing so. It's absolutely brilliant stuff, putting the product first.

[IANdrewDiceClay]

How odd. The Observer back issues show they reported the Hogan heel turn before it happened.

The third member of the heel team for the PPV won't be announced until the night of the show. Speculation is running rampant about who it is. I've been told that the deal was finalized last week for whomever it is. My feeling is that it's Hulk Hogan because a reader was working on the set of the movie Hogan is doing with Roddy Piper and said that Hogan told Piper he was asked to be the third guy and that he probably was going to do it. It wouldn't be a disappointment like most mystery partners turn out to be, and it would be the best thing for Hogan's career in some ways although there is a legit risk that the heel Hulk Hogan won't have the same PPV drawing power of the babyface version and when a guy gets 25% of the cut, he'd better have incredible drawing power or he's not worth it.

[air_raid]

Good stuff, especially that Hogan was only going as far as "probably" going to do it. As Bischoff noted in his book, they had Sting on standby to turn heel right up to the Hulkster arriving at the building in Daytona on the day of the Bash, just in case Hogan changed his mind. That's just how much the risk to his drawing power and the effect it would have on his "hero" status (the Make-A-Wish kids, not just the "wrestlings fans' good guy" stuff) had the Hulk teetering between should I-shouldn't I, and how aware of it Eric was. This was another of those huge events in big time wrestling that even on the day of the PPV, might not have happened.

[air_raid]

Two more Nitros in the can, following on from Clash XXXII and starting the build for SuperBrawl VI.

 

** Bischoff makes a unique excuse for Flair losing the World title one week previous : "Vegas is a big distraction, especially for a guy like Ric Flair." To be fair, too much booze, gambling and fanny probably does take an athlete off his game.

 

** Bischoff : "This is where the big boys play. Vince, forget about it. Get a job in a pizza parlour, buddy."

 

** I don't have much to say about Flair vs Hogan - Flair wins after he and Arn both hit Hogan with a shoe, I assume belonging to Liz. Eric acts like it's a massive upset going so far as to repeat the result during the next match. I know Hogan getting pinned is always a big deal, but think it's weird how they act that it's such a shock for Flair to beat him, given that he's Ric fucking Flair. Him pinning anyone shouldn't be presented as THIS much of a shock. Mongo again ignores his wife in Hogan's corner. I suppose it makes sense if we aren't supposed to know she's his wife, but it's still weird.

 

** Uncle Eric gets a dig in at the Goldust gimmick : "WCW has introduced new talent in the last 90 days than anybody else has in the last two years. We're not talking about Ru Paul wannabes here ; we're talking about world class athletes." He picks a strange match to make this point about fresh new talent though - Road Warriors vs Faces of Fear.

 

** Barbar shows off some great strength giving Animal a standing powerbomb. Really awkward spot later where he gives Animal a shoulderblock from the middle rope and Animal at first just stands there as though it didn't effect him, then he falls forwards instead of backwards. They do the finish were Hawk clotheslines Barbar off the top as he tries to piledrive Animal which always looks a bit contrived for me. Bit of a shaky first match back for the Roadies, but at least they got to win here, in contrast to their super weak double count with the Headbangers in their WWF return. What a pointless result that was.

 

** Arn Anderson tells Pillman about tough love and says "it's gonna hurt you a lot more than it hurts me" and takes his belt off. For a split second, I think he means to bum him, but thankfully Kevin Sullivan blindsides Arn before anything can happen. Pillman bails out of the ring until Sullivan chases him. Seems like the Dungeon picked an unnecessary fight there, Arn and Sully had always been respectful to each other, it was PILLMAN that Sullivan had the problem with, and Arn was trying to discipline him. I'd love to say this marked the end of the "Horsemen and Dungeon don't like each other but team up against Hogan and Savage" tedium, but we know that's not true.

 

** Madusa attacks Sherri from behind again when Gene is about to interview her, which again is pretty heelish. Sherri wins their match clean, then Madi attacks her like a sore loser. This feud has been booked completely backwards, I really want to see Madusa get the shit kicked out of her. "Heck, Madusa should have stayed in the WWF, she could have taken on some of the male athletes in that division." Good one, Eric.

 

** The Savage v Giant World title match consists of : Savage attacks Giant from behind and hits him with the belt twice. The ref calls for the bell to start the match. Savage hits him with the belt again. The ref calls for the bell for the disqualification. Seriously, that's your match, prior to the usual array of run-ins.

 

** Savage v Benoit is an excellent start to the 5th Feb show. Benoit is still coming out to his own music here instead of the Horsemen music Arn and Pillman are using - the same theme he reverted to when the Horsemen split at the end of '97. Odd. Woman looks wrong coming out with Savage is a glorious full-length sparkly dress. She's already dressing like she's with Flair. Heenan describes her as "a 10" and here, I'm inclined to agree. Thankfully, this is the match where she turns. Benoit is intense as fuck here, but unusual for him, he neglects to target Savage's taped arm. Woman jumps on Savage's back as he's conveniently distracted by Flair stalking Liz at ringside. Liz' turn was really well foreshadowed with her shoe twice "accidentally" being involved in losses for Hogan and/or Savage within the first six days of her return. After the match Hogan is jawing at Mean Gene and Liz doesn't bother warning him that Flair is about to attack him from behind. Zodiac tries to stop Giant belting Hogan with a chair, as a pre-cursor to his turn and becoming the Booty Man. Savage pulls Liz up on not warning Hogan. Can you really not see where this is going, lads?

 

** Woman comes out with Flair later for his match with Bagwell, and all looks right in the world. Paul Orndorff comes to the commentary desk to threaten the Horsemen with payback that best as I can remember, he never got. For those that don't know, Mr Wonderful needed neck surgery at the tail end of '95 so they wrote him out by having the Horsemen spike piledrive him on the floor. Bagwell shows some decent fire, but he's a thousand times better as a heel.

 

** Luger watch : he comes out with Sting to defend the tag belts against the Road Warriors. He poses in the aisle and doesn't react to the fans at all. Nothing overtly heelish. Hawk no-selling a piledriver makes sense in this match when it looks as crap as Luger's. Hilariously there is a technical fuck up and the building has a power cut and we lose the feed for a couple of seconds and it sounds like Bischoff's talking on the phone going "are we on?" Eric later says "Some people say you never know what's going to happen - at Nitro, you REALLY never know what's going to happen." Well, the phrase he's taking the piss out of is actually "anything can happen in the WWF" but we get the point. Luger waffles Animal in the kidneys with a foreign object provided by Jimmy Hart, and pins him. Sting looks suitably miffed.

 

 

On-going feature #1 :

 

Head to head comparison (and my opinion on which was the better show, having seen each and every one) :

 

29/01 Raw - Diesel v Bulldog, Godwinns v Body Donnas, HBK v Yokozuna. Nitro - Hogan v Flair, Road Warriors v Faces of Fear, Madusa v Sherri, Savage v Giant World title non-start. 4-1 Nitro.

 

05/02 Raw - Diesel & HBK v Bulldog & Yoko (Yoko face turn), Kid v Hakushi, Hitman v Undertaker WWF title match. Nitro - Savage v Benoit World title, Arn & Pillman v Sullivan & Hugh Morrus, Flair v Bagwell, Sting & Luger v Road Warriors Tag title. 4-2 Nitro (just).

 

On-going feature #2 :

Towns in which babyface Hogan gets booed

Atlanta, Las Vegas, Canton (OH), Lakeland (FL).

[PowerButchi]

The Dungeon Horseman Hatelovehatelove in '96 sucked a million dicks. When Arn Anderson turns on Sullivan at GAB '96 you'd think it'd be over, but... no.

[air_raid]

This one's for you, Butch.

 

 

Lawrence 'Lex Luger' Pfohl has experienced the best and worst that life can throw at you. A former football player, Luger's rise to stardom in wrestling was truly meteoric. Earning $500,000 per annum two years after his debut, the man nicknamed 'The Total Package' headlined for JCP and later WCW and the WWF. Following his return to WCW in 1995, his earnings exceeded one million dollars per year. Meanwhile, he operated a successful gym business with friend Steve 'Sting' Borden. He had it all. Or so it seemed. There was a dark side to Luger's lifestyle, which went public after the drug-related death of his girlfriend Elizabeth Hulette in 2003. Convicted of drug possession, Luger spent time in prison from 2005-2006. His troubles didn't end there. In 2007, Luger suffered a devastating spinal cord injury which deprived him of his ability to move his arms and legs, temporarily, along with his muscularity. The ordeal changed Luger in ways that were more than physical, as he told Calum Waddell on August 14. Once self-absorbed, Lex's injury caused him to look at the world in a new light. In his own words, the 55-year-old is now a "better man" ...

 

You suffered a spinal stroke nearly six years ago, which initially left you paralysed. How are you today?

 

I'm fabulous - from where I was supposed to be. I was meant to need 24-hour care, around the clock, and having my teeth brushed for me. But now I'm living on my own and doing the things I was never supposed to do. I am very thankful to have my health.

 

We'll go into more detail about your injury later. Before that, I would like to discuss with you your pro wrestling career from the beginning. Receiving a mega-push from your debut in the Championship Wrestling from Florida territory in October 1985, you won the Southern heavyweight title from Wahoo McDaniel on November 19, less than one month later. As the recipient of this star treatment, did you sense resentment or heat from other wrestlers in the locker room?

 

Yeah. I did experience some heat. It was like fourth of July fireworks almost from the first day I arrived (laughs)... I guess that new look (due to the success in the WWF of Hulk) Hogan was what the bookers were looking for.

 

Right. You had a bodybuilder physique and the height, obviously, right from the start.

 

I really can't say what any specific guy thought (of me), because no one said anything to my face. But, at the time, a lot of us could see how the business was changing. I think most of the guys in Florida were professionals, and if someone is on board that they think can draw. You know, the top guys in Florida, they saw an opportunity to draw by working with me.

 

I had a lot of great mentors behind me in those early days. Ric Flair was great to me, and then Arn (Anderson) and Tully (Blanchard) in the NWA (Jim Crockett Promotions). Hiro Matsuda, who helped to train me. I didn't come up against a lot of resentment, once these guys were behind me.

 

Tell us more about Matsuda, your trainer.

 

I don't know if I would have gotten into wrestling without him. I was playing American football back then, and he took me under his wing, agreed to train me and got me into Championship Wrestling from Florida. I made my debut (and) I liked it so much, I never went back to football after that.

 

Hiro was a great, great guy. He broke in a lot of talent: Hulk Hogan, 'Mr Wonderful' Paul Orndorff. I worked with a lot of big stars back then, and I was really grateful to have Hiro pushing for me. He was a fantastic guy.

 

Matsuda acted as your manager in the Florida territory. Did he ever call your matches for you from ringside?

 

Yeah. At the beginning, he would be down at ringside with me to make sure things went well. He had never done that before. I was nervous in those early matches, but I think he was even more nervous than me. He was willing to be a prop at ringside for me. Such a wonderful guy. I miss him.

 

Kevin Sullivan was the booker at the time.

 

Yeah. It was Kevin for the most part in Florida. Actually, Wahoo McDaniel too: Wahoo was there at the time. I got along fine with them. Wahoo let me take his belt.

 

On September 1, 1986, you fought NWA World Champion Ric Flair in the top match of Battle of the Belts III, a major show in Daytona Beach, Florida, before 8,000 fans. On this TV special, you battled to a draw with Flair in an ultra-heated match which lasted nearly 35 minutes. In this spot, while still in your rookie year, you must have had a lot of pressure on your shoulders. What are your memories of the match?

 

It was funny, man. I was so nervous... But Ric took me right through it. Unfortunately, he called a couple of things in there and, I was so green, I didn't know what to do. I remember there was a spot where he said "Let's go into a sunset flip." That's a real basic move, but I had never done a sunset flip. I was relying on power moves in my matches - bodyslams and stuff. So, he calls the sunset flip, and I had to say "Hold on. What is that?" Ric laughs and goes, "Oh my goodness. They've not taught you that yet?" He truly is one of the all-time great technicians. To carry me through a (bout of that length) at that point in my career tells you what an amazing talent he was. Ric was one of those instrumental guys who helped to develop me. So many young guys benefited from being in the ring with him. It was a great opportunity, looking back.

 

Your most notorious match in the Florida territory was against the late Bruiser Brody in a cage in January 1987. Unfortunately for you, Brody, a well-known hard-man, ceased cooperating with you. Every punch or kick you threw at him, he no-sold. Clearly alarmed by Brody's behaviour, you abandoned the match a few minutes later and climbed out of the cage and headed for the locker room. We've heard several explanations for Brody's conduct that night. You were the one who wrestled him. Tell us, why did Brody do what he did?

 

That was crazy (laughs). I had never worked with him before. It was a morning TV taping in Tampa, Floridam and I had to drive there from Miami. It was my first Cage match, and I meet this crazy-looking guy. That wild hair. I was scared before they even put me in the ring with him. Then five minutes into it, he stops working. He wouldn't shout anything, wouldn't do anything. I was in a state of panic. Fortunately, they had a veteran referee in there, a guy called Fonzie (Bill Alfonso), and I said "Hey, man. What are we gonna do? He's not working with me." At this point, Bruiser's eyes are as big as saucers. So, Fonzie is worried for me. He says, "I don't know."

 

Oh, dear.

 

So, I went back and tried to work with him again, but everything I do, Bruiser just stands there and gives me this scary look. Finally, Fonzie says, "Get him into the corner and keep punching him. I'll ask you to stop, but you ignore me and I will DQ the match." Fonzie kept his wits about him (when) Bruiser wasn't selling my punches. So, Fonzie tries to unlock the cage - and he can't get it open. At this point, I realised I was in trouble. I am in there with this gigantic madman, so I did what anyone would do: I climbed over the cage and ran to the back (laughs). I have never been so scared.

 

Rumour has it that you immediately left the building after this incident. Is that true?

 

No. I would have, but Mr. Matsuda told me to go over and apologise if I did something wrong or if he was mad at me. I had to swallow it up. So I walked over to Bruiser's locker room and asked if I could come in, and he talked as if nothing had happened. (Brody) said "It just wasn't working out there. People weren't buying it." He was doing stuff for the Von Erichs at that point in Texas, and they just turned him good guy. I had just done some TV for (Jim Crockett Promotions) and they had turned me bad guy. He felt it wasn't going over with the crowd. He says, "Look, it's no problem." I was greatly relieved, because I was expecting some lumps.... What a memorable experience (laughs).

 

Did you get any flak from Jim Crockett Promotions talent when you signed a mid-six-figure contract after JCP had bought the Florida territory in February 1987?

 

Not directly to my face. It was usually just in a joking sort of way. Arn Anderson, who is one of the funniest guys you will ever meet, would say, "Man, what were they thinking of paying you this much money?" So, I'd get that (sarcasm) after a match, "Wow! Nice match, Lex. What was Crockett thinking again?" I think it was a good thing, because after that, other guys were demanding guaranteed contracts. So it worked out for a lot of people. But I definitely took some ribbing about it.

 

You faced NWA World champion Ric Flair in another major match at The Great American Bash on July 10, 1988 in Baltimore, Maryland. This time, Flair escaped with the title when a representative of the Maryland State Athletic Commission stopped the match because you were bleeding slightly as you held Flair in your Torture Rack submission hold. The fans were livid. What did you think of that outcome?

 

I thought that was one of the greatest things we ever did. My gosh! We sold out every building for months, until Ric went on to work with (Ricky) Steamboat after that. I thought it was a masterstroke of psychology. That was Ric's character: he always weaselled out somehow. The fans loved to hate him for it. Man, there he was, in the Rack, beat, and he ends up winning , anyway. The fans loved to hate that finish. In the heyday of (Hulk) Hogan and the WWF, we did a rematch in Philadelphia and we sold out, and they didn't. That was because of that angle. The WWF usually dominated us everywhere.

 

Good point. As deflating as the finish had been to The Bash 1988 main event, the Luger vs. Flair rematches did brisk business, although it wasn't enough to save JCP which was sold to TBS and renamed WCW in November 1988. You had to wait until 1991 before you laid your hands on the World title. When you did, it was not in the way originally planned. You were supposed to defeat Flair for the belt in a Cage match at The Great American Bash 1991. However, Flair was fired by WCW boss Jim Herd two weeks before The Bash and you instead beat Barry Windham for the vacant WCW title on the card. Not only were fans denied the sight of you beating Flair for the belt, there was no feel-good ending because you turned heel in the match. You must have been disappointed by the way in which your night of glory panned out.

 

It really didn't matter what I wanted to do. Ric had just left for (the WWF), and that opened up a huge void. The fans wanted him in that match and WCW didn't deliver. No one could take the place of Flair. They asked me to turn heel. They felt the belt worked better with a heel champion and the babyface chasing. I went in there and it was a substitute match. But you know what? It was still a World title win. So I'll take it (laughs).

 

You lost the WCW World title to Sting at SuperBrawl II on February 29, 1992, and then left wrestling for Vince McMahon's World Bodybuilding Federation. Why did you leave WCW?

 

Well, some things happened that indicated WCW was heading in the wrong direction. They had lost Flair, they were letting a lot of talent go, and they even tried to fire (my manager) Harley Race. They were working on an austerity budget, and I had the belt but not a lot of challengers. I didn't want that to be my World title legacy, so I was looking for a way to bail out.

 

You worked for McMahon's WBF in 1992 and appeared as host of its short-lived BodyStars television show. On January 24, 1993, you returned to wrestling with a new nickname, "The Narcissist" Lex Luger, in a segment at the WWF's Royal Rumble. Your character was first billed as "Narcissus" in videos on WWF TV prior to the Rumble. Like the character in Greek mythology, your "Narcissist" was obsessed with his physical appearance. On TV, you were surrounded by mirrors in which you admired your reflection. Despite the big introduction and a hefty push, "The Narcissist" did not connect with fans. What did you make of the gimmick?

 

I loved "The Narcissist". I was having a blast with that character: I wanted to do it longer. I was having so much fun with it. I got to beat guys on TV, take them over to the mirror and tell them what their faults were and how inferior they were to me. It was hilarious.

 

Your biggest match as "The Narcissist" was against Mr. Perfect Curt Hennig at WrestleMania IX on April 4, 1993.

 

That was funny. It was my first WrestleMania, and Vince tells me he has big plans for "The Narcissist": that's why he had me attack Bret Hart at his press conference prior to the event. They were planning a big run with me and Bret. So he wants me to have one of the best matches on the card, and he pairs me with Curt. Now, Curt was and always will be regarded as one of the best ring technicians in the business. He was an unbelievably gifted guy. So the attitude (in the WWF) is, "Curt can have a great match with anyone. I bet he'll get something out of Lex." (laughs)

 

The match wasn't very good.

 

We went over the match a couple of days beforehand, and I had my feet kicked up, I was relaxed. (I thought) "I'm working with Mr. Perfect Curt Hennig. I have the night off." We got to the ring, and I thought he was ribbing me because we lock up and Curt goes, "So, what are we doing?" I said: "What do you mean, what are we doing? You're leading the match!" He says, "I was out late last night. I've forgotten what we're supposed to do." I had to call that thing (laughs). I hadn't called a match before that. I always had Ric and guys like that leading me through the match. By some miracle, we got through it. But my dream of having this amazing, set-the-world-on-fire WrestleMania match never happened. Curt was so apologetic afterwards. It taught me to be a lot better prepared.

 

You underwent a character change when you bodyslammed Yokozna on the USS Intrepid on July 4, 1993. Dressed in red, white and blue, you became the flag-waving all-American babyface Lex Luger. What dod you think of the gimmick change, less than six months after your WWF debut as a heel?

 

Vince loved "The Narcissist" too, so I was shocked when they decided to (change) that character and have me slam Yokozuna. And that change over to the red, white and blue and the Lex Express was very quick, I was, like "Oh, you gotta be kidding me."

 

Following the Lex Express bus tour of the United States to promote SummerSlam 1993, it seemed inevitable that you would defeat Yokozuna for the WWF heavyweight title on the SummerSlam show. You did not: you won the match by count out.

 

Everyone thought I was going to get the belt at SummerSlam (laughs). But those rumours were not true. Vince never promised me the title (at SummerSlam). People still talk about this, and come up with reasons, but he never promised me the win. Vince said "Look, if I ever put the title on you, I want it to be at Madison Square Garden." That is a very special place for him and his family. So, he planned to do a rematch at WrestleMania X. He wanted to save it. He wanted SummerSlam to end the way it did, and he had a great angle planned with Yokozuna and The Undertaker (for the rest of the year), and then he wanted to heat things up for the two of us on the back of that. That was his thought process. Whether or not that was the correct thought process, I don't know.

 

You did collide with WWF champ Yokozuna again on pay-per-view at WrestleMania X on March 20, 1994 at Madison Square Garden. Once again, the match went to a screwy finish when you were disqualified by special referee Mr. Perfect. It was Bret Hart who left the MSG with the title after he pinned Yokozuna in the main event.

 

They gave me the joint win at the Royal Rumble with Bret. That was great - I enjoyed that. We both hit the ground at the same time (in the Rumble match), and then it was the two of us against Yokozuna (in separate title matches at WrestleMania X). I thought it was a good set-up. But they kept the booking for WrestleMania X secret. I didn't know what way they were going with it until the very last minute. They went with Bret in the end, and I was fine with that.

 

That said, it stifled your push: after 'Mania X, you were never a serious WWF heavyweight title contender again. One year later at WM XI, you were in the opening match as part of a tag team bout with Davey Boy Smith.

 

Titles are great, it's an honour (to hold them), but I never based my career on that. I was okay with not winning the WWF belt. Hiro Matsuda taught me, "Do your job, it's a work. Do it well. You don't need to be the greatest worker: your size and your physique is what is going to be your gimmick and what will keep you over." Sure, it would have been nice to get the (WWF) belt, but I promised myself I'd never hang my head, if it didn't happen.

 

How stringent was the WWF's drug testing policy when you wrestled for the company from 1993-1995?

 

They were pretty strict with the testing when I was in the WWF. During that period, I managed it without the drugs.

 

You work with WWE now, don't you? I believe you try to discourage wrestlers from using steroids and other drugs.

 

Yeah. I do informal stuff behind the scenes, when I am needed. I enjoy doing that. When they want somebody to tell the young guys all the things that you don't want to do, I'm there.

 

You made a surprise appearance on the first episode of WCW Monday Nitro on September 4, 1995, one night after you had wrestled on a WWF house show in Canada. Did you jump ship because you were flagging in the WWF, and WCW had offered you the chance to wrestle Hulk Hogan for the WCW World title?

 

It is a bit of a roller coaster in this business. Unless you are Hogan or John Cena, you are not always going to be at the top of the card. I didn't feel I was necessarily on a down-swing, but I did feel my career was idling in the WWF. The opportunity to go to WCW came as a surprise. (WCW) had announced Monday Nitro and the head-to-head thing with Raw, and it was something I had to think carefully about. At the time, I had no plans on leaving WWF. My contract had expired, but Vince was working on getting me to resign. It was a spur of the moment thing: I had this conversation with Sting, just two weeks before Nitro premiered, and I casually told him I was not under contract to Vince. Sting went and ran it past Eric Bischoff, who was not real high on me, but they decided to bring me in because of the surprise factor. And the rest is history.

 

Did Vince or anyone else from the WWF contact you after your appearance on Nitro?

 

No. I did not get any feedback from Vince, but I heard he was furious that I never gave my notice - or any notice (laughs). That was part of the stipulation of leaving... WCW wanted to keep it quiet. That meant no one could know anything. That meant no one could know anything. They even kept me under a towel when they brought me into the Mall Of America (in Minneapolis, Minnesota) for Nitro. Bischoff wanted it to be a surprise to the boys in the back too.

 

It was a monumental start to what became known as the Monday Night War.

 

I thought Vince had been good to me while I was in the WWF. I did agonise a little about not telling him I was going to WCW but, on the other hand, the whole point of Eric bringing me in was as a surprise for that first Nitro. I have still never spoken to Vince about it. But, yeah, I heard he was not real happy. He had taped me for some of his television shows, and he had to go and (remove all traces of Lex Luger from the footage). It wasn't so good.

 

You had a bad reputation backstage in WCW from 1995-2001. We're told you had a lot of heat on you because people believed you had a massive ego.

 

Yeah. I was all that for sure. I called it confidence, but it was probably arrogance or ego. I drew a lot of heat from that. I have heard from some of the other guys - especially now - that I was difficult and quite full of myself. I don't deny that. I'm definitely not that any more.

 

Though you were dislike backstage, you were very popular with the fans. On the August 4, 1997 Nitro, you beat Hollywood Hulk Hogan to capture the WCW World title for the second time.

 

That was a huge surprise. I found out I was going to win the World title when I entered the ring that night. That was the thing with WCW on Monday nights: it was all keeping things secret or doing stuff at the last minute. I got in the ring and Nick Patrick, the referee of the match, had found out about the switch s minute earlier. He says to me, "You're going to win the title tonight, right?" I said "I am?" He was told right there. I had to get Hogan in the Torture Rack, and then they were going to call it.

 

Do you have fond memories of the Monday Night War era?

 

Absolutely. WCW was number two when Nitro started, but they were making such an effort to take on the WWF. Bischoff really believed they could do it, and most people around him did not. There were a lot of ratings wins, and it was an exciting time to work there. Then, when Scott (Hall) and Kevin (Nash) came in (and) Hogan went bad guy (in 1996), we were really eye-to-eye with the WWF.

 

Alas, it all came crashing down for WCW in 1999, under Bischoff, Nash and Hogan, and Vince Russo at the end of the year.

 

Ah, they were just trying their best. The competition had just gotten too much for WCW. Russo wanted to do the young guys vs. the old guys thing, and have us put the new wrestlers over.

 

That was something a lot of the veterans, including yourself, were reluctant to do.

 

I don't think the fans were buying it. That was the problem. But the tide was switching: "Stone Cold," The Rock and Vince (McMahon) had their thing in the WWF and it was huge, so Russo was just trying to do something new. I don't think it was (due to) a lack of trying at WCW, although I know that period wasn't so hot with the fans.

 

At Greed, the final WCW pay-per-view on March 18, 2001, the match pitting you and Buff Bagwell against World tag team champions Sean O'Haire and Chuck Palumbo turned into comedy when you and Bagwell threw yourselves to the mat and allowed the champs to simultaneously pin you in 55 seconds. It was reported at the time that you and Bagwell did this in protest against management's request that you put the younger guys over clean.

 

You know, we didn't have so much to do with that. We had to get pinned very quickly, and the bookers wanted to do a shocker. Originally, it was just Buff in the ring for two minutes, he never gets to tag me, they double up on him and then they pin him. I said to them, "Well, look, if you are going to do a squash, let me feed-in and I'll lie down too." They wanted these two young guys over, and originally, I wasn't even meant to be in the ring. We only did what was planned: we didn't change the script for that match. We all spoke about it in the back: me, Buff, Chuck and Sean. There was no heat over that, whatever way it looked.

 

Vince McMahon knocked you on the air during the Raw and Monday Nitro simulcast on March 26, 2001, after the WWF had purchased WCW. "The Lex Express has run out of gas," said McMahon. It seemed that he hadn't forgiven you for your defection to WCW in 1995. How did you react to that?

 

I didn't give it any thought at all. (Bill) Goldberg and I had over two years left to run on our contracts. I couldn't have worked for Vince without giving up a multi-million dollar Time Warner contract. It was a paid vacation for me: I could pump up, sit at home for the first time in years, relax. My plan was eventually to come back to wrestling, maybe in Japan, and eventually Vince McMahon, if that opportunity opened up for me. It was about mid-2003 that I wanted to come back.

 

You didn't receive a job offer from WWE. But you did make an appearance for TNA in a tag match on November 12, 2003.

 

TNA was just a brief thing: I made a couple of appearances down there. But that was after some pretty rough things had happened.

 

You were arrested after an alleged altercation with girlfriend Elizabeth Hulette at your home in Marietta, Georgia on April 19, 2003. Two days later, you were arrested again for drink-driving and driving with a suspended licence. Then on May 1, 2003, Elizabeth died, aged 42, of an accidental drug overdose at your house.

 

Elizabeth made everything go public. My double life behind the scenes: living in a big mansion in Atlanta with my kids, and I had my fitness centres there - it was looking good on the outside. But behind the scenes, it was all wine, women and song. And a lot of drugs. My attitude was: "What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas." There's a life principle there: you reap what you sow. And on or two bad life choices turned into a lot of really bad life choices for me. I was lying (to) and deceiving a lot of people close to me. It was a bad time. But it all blew up, tragically, with the death of Elizabeth. That was a tragedy for me, for her family, for my family, for everyone involved.

 

Did you ever speak to Randy Savage about the death of Elizabeth?

 

No. Randy had been split up with her for so many years (they divorced in 1992). He was bringing a lot of other women to television when Liz was working at WCW. This was before I ever got involved with her. So, that was completely over. We never had a conversation about me and Liz, even when we began dating. I was pretty good friends with Randy, but we just never spoke about that.

 

You were convicted of possessing controlled substances, including anabolic steroids, HGH and prescription pills, which were discovered by police in your house after Elizabeth's death. You received five years' probation. In early December 2005, while crossing the border from the U.S. to Canada for a wrestling booking, you were arrested for an outstanding drug charge and violating your parole. Later that month, you were convicted and sent to prison for nine weeks.

 

It was rough. I was used to the Ritz-Carlton, and this was far cry from the Ritz (laughs). It was a very humbling experience, though, and one that I needed. I was worthy of jail time back then. The life I was leading was not good. I think jail was the best thing for me. I really didn't think things were falling apart until my private life became public.

 

You had a spinal stroke on October 19, 2007, caused by neck damage from years of wrestling and football. This changed your life in ways that you could never have imagined.

 

That definitely got me out of the mode for self-sufficiency. I was paralysed from the neck down. I went from having this great physique and everything to being unable to walk. That was the way I thought I was going to remain for the rest of my life. It has been an incredible journey for me, emotionally, mentally, spiritually - and coming out on the other side, it truly has been a wonderful experience. You certainly lose a lot of your pride when you need to be cared for like that, and it made me a better man: I'm a lot more empathetic to others who have struggles in their lives. I never really struggled physically before, and it introduced me to a whole new group of people - doctors, nurses and therapists - who do wonderful things to help other people. I now volunteer at the Shepherd Center (in Atlanta) where I did my rehab. I am able now to comfort others. I want to give other people that encouragement when they go through spinal cord injuries like mine. It has been a real opportunity to serve and help other people. Before that, I was quite self-focused. I think that adversary makes you stronger. At the time, it was very challenging but, in the long run, it has been a real blessing.

 

Now you have written your autobiography, Wrestling With The Devil. Were you hesitant to put the details of your story into print?

 

I think some members of my family would rather I (had) left a lot of my story private, but God made it clear to me that he wanted me to write this. At this point in my life, it just seemed like a great opportunity, and I just hope my book helps some other people. I hope they see the challenges I went through and respond to that. It's a personal story. Plus, there are some great stories for wrestling fans. I'm very proud of how it has turned out.

[PowerButchi]

Lex comes off really nice there, obviously his religion is good for him, and Good For Him. But Fin comes off like Fin. I've half a mind to think he didn't ask the questions going "that was shite?" looking at his dodgy past of editing PS, but Les came off great. Thanks for uploading!

 

Also, Fin finally mentions the Brisk 1988 business. Lex was the fucking man in 1988 and 1989. And it's nice he kind of admits it, even just 'cause he's interviewing him

[IANdrewDiceClay]

They should have put the belt on him at SummerSlam 93. If it bombed, you could have had him drop it to Yokozuna and then drop it to Bret, but we'll never know. Luger was like Superman or something. He just looked like someone you'd like to grow up to be. Its pretty shocking to think there was never any plans to put the belt on him at SS 93. That's insanity after all the money they spent on the Lex Express tour. I dont think he was ever the same in the WWF. It was diminishing returns up until the program with the Harris Boys in 95.

 

I have really fond memories of that 93-95 period. Like really nostalgic tinglings when I think of the roster at that time. I might start watching some of that stuff.

[PowerButchi]

If Fuckhead Fin actually asked this one I'll be amazed.

 

That was something a lot of the veterans, including yourself, were reluctant to do.

[CTXRussomark]

How refreshing to hear a guy who openly admits he was a complete cunt back in the day and who genuinely sounds like he's changed for the better. It's a shame it took what it did but at least he's doing well now and seems happy.

 

He's also one of the very few guys who is happy to admit he wasn't the best in the ring and needed carried for most of his career. He seems very self-aware of what his legacy and perception amongst others is which is VERY unusual in wrestling.

[darkship]

Calum Waddell did the interview rather than Fin.