Comic Book and Superhero movie & TV discussion.

[quote the raven]

 

So heres a really random idea, could they not have shown Lex dad being killed in the Zod fight? would that have given him the motivation to hate superman. Its such simple story telling. Likewise with Batman so there is uproar that he is branding people so that they get mashed up or killed in prison, i kinda like that darker batman. Yet no one cares when he kills 20 odd people atleast saving supermans mum and trying to get the case ? Would not a simple few lines from Alfred about how he is going to far, and a nod to the robin suit sort that out? Lazy story telling of the hightest order

 

Removing Batmans morals makes him a very boring character the constant fight to that kept him from killing people was always one of the main points in nearly every comic. Hell Jokers point in life is to get bats to kill him. He claims to have followed Millers "dark knight" well he maybe needs to re read it. Bats cant even bring himself to kill Joker after he does some crazy shit

 

 

 

Edited March 27, 2016 by quote the raven

[d-d-d-dAz]

 

 

I think what they were going for, and is one of the things I didn't really have issue with, is that you have two competing ideas of what a heroes ideology should be. One is a narcisstic, authoritarian at heart who willingly kills the bad guys but his line in the sand is that no innocents will die. He's fearsome, but in a way that EVERYONE is afraid of him, not just the villains (hence the women afraid to leave their cell). He's a devil, doing the angel's work. The other is a whiter than white, live and let live kind of fella who believes in allowing the people a say in how their world is ruled, and questions his place in it. He is against killing, unless he has to to save the human race that he's adopted as his own, but ironically through his powers, unwittingly, his body count is super high (the best thing about Snyders films is addressing that part), particularly amongst the innocents that Batfleck cherishes.

 

I think had Batfleck not been so hard nosed, and into the extermination of bad guys, but not at the cost of innocent lives, it'd have been much harder to draw the line in the sand between the two.

 

Supermans existence, in a way, challenges Batmans world view. He wants to assassinate Superman for the greater good of the innocents (who he incorrectly believes Superman has a devil-may-care attitude towards) but in the end realises that Superman, like him, just wants to kill the bad guys and so they bond over that. And Martha.

 

Also, as per Lex, I think if you base his villainy on the loss of his father, you complicate him by making him somewhat sympathetic. I think if he's concerned by a loss of revenue based on his buildings coming down, and doesn't seem to care about the people within, then you're accentuating his evil.

 

On another note, how weird was it when, just after seeing his old man get shot in flashback form, Bruce Wayne starts referring to the old fella in the tower as 'dad' without context. That was odd.

 

 

Edited March 27, 2016 by d-d-d-dAz

[Chest Rockwell]

I can't believe you guys haven't started a separate thread for this films. All these fucking spoiler tags are such a chore.

[Nick Soapdish]

 

 

GOOD GOOGLY MOOGLY fellas. What the fuck was that?

 

I didn't hate it, it's nowhere near as bad as some of the rampaging bandwagon of hate would have you believe, but I didn't love it either. I don't really know what I thought.

 

It was as if they literally threw everything they could think of at it in the hope that something would stick. Like when Superman proposed to Lois from beyond the grave... It came from nowhere and fizzled out immediately. I also didn't like having to spend 20 minutes trying to believe the big man was dead when literally no one believed it.

 

I also hated how Snyder clearly couldn't work out how to resolve Superman v Batman properly, so settled on a really lame 'a single name can diffuse homocidal rage' and then just lobbed another baddy on.

 

Jess Eisenberg was a pain. For the first few scenes, I was thinking he was going to be the best thing about it and then he just got boring and annoying very quickly. It sticks in my throat abit that Snyder has gone on record this week as saying Bryan Cranston was as good as cast and he went out on a limb to get Eisenberg cast. I genuinely believe Eisenberg was the root of all evil in this film (well, after the harsh cuts and schizophrenic bouncing around in the first hour) as his childish, skittish, goofy character not only seemed to be in the wrong film but seemed to provide the lack of purpose or motive that characterised the rest of the film. If as an audience we don't see any reason for the motivations for the antagonist, it's much harder to root for the heroes fighting his villainy. I reckon an actor like Cranston could single handedly made this an infinitely better move, with purpose and audience investment.

 

But yeah, it wasn't all bad.

 

Lost in amongst it was possibly the greatest screen Bruce Wayne (if not Batman) ever, and a crack-a-jack performance from Affleck in general. Jeremy Irons was great, too.

 

Oh, and Wonder Woman had a pretty fantastic introduction.

 

I was watching the uninteresting, bloated CGI shitefest that was Doomsday and the gang and I couldn't help but think 'gee whizz, I'd really like to see an actual Batman film and an actual Wonder Woman film.'

 

Once the gags started flying towards the end I could see some potential for a justice league film, but Jesus they need to bomb Snyder off.

 

I realise this review was a rambling mess. But, in a way, it's really hard to compile a sensible, linear review of a film that was not sensible and lacked any logical linear progression.

 

Tell you what, though, fucking easy to override Kryptonian security on their mother ships.

 

I'm exhausted.

 

Though, I saw it at the Empire in Leicester Square and it got a round of applause at the end, and a standing ovation from some quarters. So it's doing something right.

 

 

The fact it got a round of applause at the end means nowt. Especially if you paid £20 plus to see it in IMAX Laser 3D (I did opening day for Episode 7, luckily my reaction to that movie was the same as Affleck in Phantoms yo. Also I saw SW Episode 1 opening day first screening back in 1999. We gave that a standing ovation. Sometimes the expectation, and subsequent failure, clouds rational thought

[Juan Manforce]

 

Some of the Punisher stuff was amazingly brutal and I could've done with seeing a bit more of it. Overall there were a couple of aspects of the Punisher character that didn't sit right with me, but more in concept than execution, Bernthal (as always) was great.

What in particular irked you about the portrayal of Frank? I definitely think that his stuff was the strongest part of the two main story arcs. Particularly the way Frank was more than happy to play possum draw ib his enemies.

 

Thinking about it more, I guess it was only really his arc while he was in hospital and court (episode 8 aside) that I didn't enjoy as much as the rest of his stuff. Obviously since it's set in a more grounded and realistic world than the comics you kind of have to, but the way they humanised him by having him show guilt, the way he only wanted to talk to Karen, it just felt a bit off, like he was too vulnerable for the Punisher. I wasn't a huge fan of the "Karen Page: Journalist" story so the way their stories intersected again in the back half of the season wasn't my favourite thing. You're right about him playing possum, that was good stuff. A lot of his stuff was great. It's hard for me to explain, I'm probably coming across more negative than I mean to about it. They're things I might not have an issue with on a rewatch, hell I didn't really have an issue as such with them at the time, I'm just that kind of pessimistic prick that can love 90% of something but focus on the 10% that was only OK and nitpick.

[King Pitcos]

Juan, I get what you mean about the Punisher. There's a lot of Frank Castle humanity/depth in the show, and from the Ennis comics, I'm used to more Punisher being a big bastard going on kill frenzies around Hell's Kitchen. Although I found a lot of the Ennis Punisher Max run boring, especially when Nick Fury's involved or when Ennis is just masturbating while watching army documentaries. 

 

I'd say the Daredevil version of Punisher is a much richer, stronger character. It's just in those moments you described, it's jarring with the character I had in my head.

[Rey_Piste]

Can you please mark if the spoilers are for BvS or something else like Daredevil.

 

As I previously mentioned I really liked the way Frank was portrayed as more than a one man genocide. What Ennis did best with the character was to bring him back to being a bad arse killer after he was made to look really soft in the overly politically correct 90s. He did show him as having a softer side, but Punisher came about as a Charles Bronson in Death Wish mixed with "Dirty" Harry Callahan character. Since those revenge films became a popular sub-genre in the late 70s and early 80s. It was also the fact that Ennis used a guy who was well into his 60s and backed that up with pre-Punisher Frank Castle stories in Born and Tyger. The general's story he told in the courtroom is basically Born.

 

 

 

I also liked the subtle skull imagery that was attached to Frank namely the Xray, his black eyes makng him look like he had a skeletal face and bloody skull you can see on his white prison jumpsuit after the stabbening.

 

Though when Wilson Fisk is shown in the white jumpsuit I did watch nder why Buster Bloodvessel from 80s ska band Bad Manners had turned up. Because whilst Vincent D'onofrio looks great in a suit he has skinny arms for a man his size, so when you see him fighting Frank I didn't believe he could win that fight.

 

 

Edited March 28, 2016 by Rey_Piste

[Scott Malbranque]

Bernthal has very skinny arms

[Rey_Piste]

Bernthal has very skinny arms

At least he looks athletic compared to this.

[DJM]

Went to see Batman v Superman today and really enjoyed it. It has its flaws and I can see why a lot of people found it to be confusing due to it being non-linear at times, the film jumping around a lot from scene to scene, and the number of dream sequences, but it really does not deserve the overwhelming criticism it has received and the many negative reviews.

I will be very interested to see what the 3-hour cut that they are releasing in July delivers.

[King Pitcos]

Rey, I think that was what I found jarring actually, Punisher being young and new but doing some of the things I associate with him doing as an old psycho.

[Scott Malbranque]

His height really took me out of the show when it was highlighted, K-Pits.

Minor gripe though, as I nearly fucking wept with it's throwbacks and outright respect to the source material.

[DJM]

Batman v Superman Spoiler

 

 

An interesting deleted scene from the film, with Lex and hints of The New Gods/Steppenwolf(?):

http://s25.postimg.org/72yiw2lsu/newgods.jpg

http://comicbook.com/2016/03/28/batman-v-superman-deleted-scene-seems-to-hint-at-the-new-gods/?utm_source=Comicbook.com&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=160328_123508_Comicbook.com%20Daily%20Newsletter&utm_content=Link

 

 

[Rey_Piste]

Rey, I think that was what I found jarring actually, Punisher being young and new but doing some of the things I associate with him doing as an old psycho.

I can understand that, but I don't think it would've worked within the storyline if he was a 'nam vet. I couldn't think of an actor who is within the age range who could pull it off, apart from possibly Ian McShane. It is still weird to think of Lovejoy as playing a grizzled hard arse.

[Rey_Piste]

His height really took me out of the show when it was highlighted, K-Pits.

Minor gripe though, as I nearly fucking wept with it's throwbacks and outright respect to the source material.

I am a big spoiling idiot

Edited March 29, 2016 by Chest Rockwell