General politics discussion thread

[Kenny McBride]

The last game I was at, I told someone I thought a song they were singing was not cool. I've walked out of pubs when I've heard songs I didn't think were cool. The thing is that by and large, the problem doesn't exist at Celtic Park any more. There are a handful of offenders - led by the Green Brigade, for the most part - and I've said a million times that if only to get the real moral high ground, Celtic fans should button it and the club should permanent ban anyone who can't. I've condoned nothing and repeatedly tell the Celtic fans I know not to get into the knuckle-dragging contests.

 

However, I'm not actually a huge Celtic supporter. I've been to a few games over the past few seasons. Before that, my last game was in the mid-90s. What I AM is someone who deals with casual anti-Catholic comments at work and in the pub very regularly. Oh, and on here, obviously. The fact is that Catholics historically have been a put-upon minority in the west of Scotland, often resented and discriminated against and usually misunderstood and mistrusted, and today, with the Dawkins crowd at one end of the spectrum and the knuckle-draggers at Ibrox at the other, that anti-Catholicism is on the rise again. I fail to see how anyone can look at the objective facts and not see that. Who was the last Rangers player or manager to receive death threats, or even get beaten up the street? Who was the last CoS Moderator to receive bullets in the post? Did Donald Findlay, when defending the scumbag who killed Mark Scott, get letterbombs for his efforts? I also mentioned elsewhere the statistics on religiously motivated crime in Scotland, which is overwhelmingly anti-Catholic. As Reznor noted in the football thread, while the latest stuff is pretty extreme, the attitudes that enable it have been tolerated for far too long.

 

I can see why some people disagree, but I don't see singing rebel songs as being the same as singing anthems to a specifically anti-Catholic razor gang. As one Irish friend noted to me, Scots Wha' Hae, Flower of Scotland and Ye Jacobites By Name are all Scottish "rebel songs" that celebrate killing the English, but no-one questions those. For what it's worth, I have no problem with the Rangers crowd singing The Sash or Derry's Walls to their hearts' content.

 

On a somewhat related note, I'd also argue that the existence of the pIRA is quite explicitly not the same as the existence of Loyalist paramilitary groups. Catholics were very definitely a subjected minority in Northern Ireland and some people felt that war was the only way to change that. I think even the biggest opponent of their methods should at least be able to understand the motivation and the frustration they felt after bullshit like Bloody Sunday and what we now know to be a shameful government cover-up. I'm not justifying their actions by any means, just as I don't try to justify Palestinian terrorism, but I'm intelligent enough to understand that people sometimes have legitimate motives which, for whatever reason, boil over into extreme actions when they feel they have no other recourse. Loyalist paramilitaries had no such justification. The British government was already murdering Catholics and locking up innocent men without trial. They really didn't need a pseudo-army on the ground to do their really dirty work for them.

[David]

What I AM is someone who deals with casual anti-Catholic comments at work and in the pub very regularly.

Well, I live in the hotbed of all this shite (Lanarkshire), yet very rarely hear any anti-Catholic comments in the places I frequent. Maybe you really should think about changing the places you hang out?

[Yoghurt]

What I AM is someone who deals with casual anti-Catholic comments at work and in the pub very regularly.

Well, I live in the hotbed of all this shite (Lanarkshire), yet very rarely hear any anti-Catholic comments in the places I frequent. Maybe you really should think about changing the places you hang out?

 

What is it with catholics and constant appeals to emotion and a constant persecution complex.

[SpursRiot2012]

I know it's different in Scotland but I've never in my life heard an anti-Catholic comment. Granted, me and my friends are all Irish Catholic decsent, and if somebody did there would be an issue, but man it's just not something I've ever encountered.

[PowerButchi]

I know it's different in Scotland but I've never in my life heard an anti-Catholic comment.

 

Same for me.

[King Pitcos]

I know it's different in Scotland but I've never in my life heard an anti-Catholic comment. Granted, me and my friends are all Irish Catholic decsent, and if somebody did there would be an issue, but man it's just not something I've ever encountered.

I've never encountered any anti-Catholic sentiment because nobody has seemed to give a toss about Catholicism wherever I've lived. I'm from an Irish Catholic background as well, and there are plenty of mongs in my own family who spout the "up the Ra, fuck the Queen" and "Tiocfaidh

Edited April 21, 2011 by King Pitcos

[The King Of Swing]

Can't speak for the Scots but the only anti-Catholic comments I hear down my end (South Wales) are from my AAA (Angry Alcoholic Atheist) Brother when he has had a few too many.

[David]

As well as Neil Lennon & co getting threats through the post, there are sick individuals from the opposite side of the fence carrying out the exact same kind of thing;

 

A group of former members of the Provisional IRA have reportedly claimed they carried out the car bomb attack that killed police officer Ronan Kerr in Northern Ireland.

 

Constable Kerr, 25, died earlier this month when a booby trap bomb exploded under his car in Omagh, Co Tyrone.

 

In their first ever public statement, obtained by the Belfast Telegraph newspaper, the ex-Provisionals said were responsible for "the recent execution of the RUC member in Omagh".

 

They vowed to continue the IRA's campaign of violence until the end of "British occupation" and the unification of Ireland.

 

"The will of Irish republicans to resist the forced occupation and partitioning of our country has not been defeated," they said.

 

"Irish republicans have continued to organise against the British presence in our country. We continue to do so under the name of the Irish Republican Army. We are the IRA."

 

A 33-year-old man has been charged with terrorism offences by police investigating the murder of Constable Kerr.

 

The suspect is due to appear at Dungannon Magistrates Court, Tyrone, on Saturday.

 

He is accused of possession of firearms and explosives with the intent to endanger life and possession of articles likely to be of use in terrorism.

 

Two other suspects were released earlier this week.

 

The paramilitaries' statement was reportedly shown to the Belfast Telegraph at a meeting with a representative of the paramilitary organisation's 'chief of staff'.

 

It was signed "chief of staff, Irish Republican Army".

 

The newspaper said the bulk of the group's members were believed to be seasoned Provisional activists, aged from the late 30s to 50s, who were heavily involved in the previous IRA campaign.

 

Suzanne Breen, the security reporter for the Belfast Telegraph, said: "They bring a deadly expertise in paramilitary attacks.

 

"They present a greatest threat probably, a greater threat than any of the existing dissident organisations because they have been until very recently involved with the Provisional IRA."

 

The group said it was entirely separate from the Real IRA and the Continuity IRA but was "committed to working with other republicans".

 

They said they had been involved in other attacks over the past two years including the murder of two British soldiers at Massereene Army base which was claimed by the Real IRA.

[Ronnie]

^^ I think the element of that post that I find hardest to get my head round is that it's someone as young as 33 who is proudly committing murder in the name of resisting "forced occupation". It's not even someone who grew up in the 70s with all that this would have entailed for lifelong hostility, or who developed political awareness in the 80s, but someone who came into adulthood at the point when even people like Paisley realised it was time to seek peace. I find it absolutely mind-boggling.

[Loki]

It's not that mind-boggling if you consider Kenny McBride's contentions earlier in the thread. He doesn't even live in Northern Ireland. One can only imagine the sense of resentment fostered in poor Catholic kids on segregated estates in Belfast.

[David]

Following the events of the past week, Neil Lennon went on to manage his Celtic side to a 0-0 draw against Rangers in a game with no flare-ups, trouble or bad incidents.

 

After coming onto the pitch to applaud the Celtic fans, he proves how much of a fucking moron he is by deciding to react to the Rangers fans booing him;

 

 

Will this guy never learn?

[Glen Quagmire]

Following the events of the past week, Neil Lennon went on to manage his Celtic side to a 0-0 draw against Rangers in a game with no flare-ups, trouble or bad incidents.

 

After coming onto the pitch to applaud the Celtic fans, he proves how much of a fucking moron he is by deciding to react to the Rangers fans booing him;

 

 

Will this guy never learn?

 

Probably best quoting what I said from a few days ago...

 

Well he is from Lurgan.

 

 

It's not that mind-boggling if you consider Kenny McBride's contentions earlier in the thread. He doesn't even live in Northern Ireland. One can only imagine the sense of resentment fostered in poor Catholic kids on segregated estates in Belfast.

So what do you imagine goes on?

[Carbomb]

I know two people from Lurgan. Both very well-balanced, nice people. Mind you, they did move to London, so perhaps not that well-balanced.

[David]

I have a feeling that this isn't going to end well;

 

Scotland likes to pride itself on being an open and accepting society yet in the past week three high profile individuals have been sent parcel bombs in the post. This comes on the back on bullets posted to Neil Lennon and two other Celtic players. The offence of all of these people

[David]

Apparently the Government are looking at replacing the traditional May Day holiday. Bob Crow isn't happy about it.

 

Labour movement activists warned killjoy Prime Minister David Cameron today to "keep your hands off our May Day holiday."

 

They urged protests against the Tories' vindictive scheme to spoil the workers' extended weekend of celebrations by abolishing the May Day bank holiday.

 

Mr Cameron and his Cabinet of millionaires are hoping to make this Monday's May Day bank holiday one of the last.

 

Plans are afoot to abandon the holiday on the first Monday in May, and replace it with a holiday on St George's Day April 23, or the anniversary of the bloody Battle of Trafalgar on October 21.

 

Veteran Labour MP Dennis Skinner urged the labour movement to band together "to ensure that we keep the May Day flags flying as they do across the world."

 

Mr Skinner warned: "In sharp contrast to the pomp and circumstance and organised happiness around the royal wedding, the Tory establishment is now turning its attention to ruining the workers' traditional May Day celebrations.

 

"True to type, Cameron wants to create more unhappiness for working class people who are struggling to keep a job.

 

"He wants to stop them from enjoying the May Day bank holiday and from celebrating International Workers' Day along with people across Europe and around the world."

 

Rail union RMT general secretary Bob Crow said: "The most important events this weekend are the annual May Day celebrations - not the bread and circuses that were rammed down people's throats."

 

Declared Mr Crow: "Forget all the diversions. The trade union and socialist focus is on marking International Workers' Day at a time when the working class is under unprecedented attack."

 

He warned that the Tories were not only attacking the workers, but were also gearing up for an assault on May Day itself.

 

"Send out the message to the Con-Dems and the bosses loud and clear - la lucha continua!" urged Mr Crow.

 

Left Labour MP Kelvin Hopkins, who spent today tramping the streets of Luton delivering election leaflets, accused the government of blatant right-wing tactics in seeking to ditch the May Day holiday.

 

Unite union general secretary Len McCluskey said: "The Tory attack on the May Day holiday is to be abhorred and it's another reminder that this government has scant regard for the working people of this country."

 

May Day was an accepted holiday in many countries to commemorate workers' struggles, said Mr McCluskey, who suggested an extra bank holiday in October during the "long stretch" between August and Christmas.

 

General union GMB general secretary Paul Kenny had a blunt message for the government of millionaires: "Keep your hands off our May Day. Keep your hands off workers' day."

 

Mr Kenny added: "May Day is an important celebration of the achievements of humanity. We have got to fight to save the bank holiday."

 

Communist Party of Britain general secretary Rob Griffiths said International Workers' Day celebrated "the commitment to solidarity, peace and socialism."

 

But a change to Trafalgar Day would be celebrating "the slaughter of seafarers in yet another battle in Britain's long and bloody history of imperialist wars."