New Doctor Who

[Daaaaaad!]

I know people think Moffat's timewimeyness is clever but I'm getting tired of the "I'm from the future, I know how this will end, you know how this will end, we all know how this will end" plot. The first time I liked it but less and less so.

I'd have to agree with this actually. The cyclical plots are getting a little tiresome, in a similar way to RTD's constant use of 'OMG world exploding WAIT deusexmachina everything's fine'. I guess, though, that the fact we don't have those 'magic saves the world' moments any more is why Moff's stories are so much better in comparison.

 

That and the River Song revelation seems very odd when River was amazed to meet Donna but seemed considerably less so at meeting her own mother before she was pregnant.

To be fair, she probably never expected to meet Donna, whilst she seemed to know she'd meet her mother in the future and exactly when and where that would be.

[GalaxyV.2]

Exactly. Plus remember 'SPOILERS'.

 

about the episode that I loved but I didn't really feel it was that great an episode to be honest. I guess I'm not digging the serial feel of the series (I know) that much. And I'll be honest and say I felt the cliffhanger was completely lame. In that the cliffhanger was negated at the exact same time it was constructed and I just don't get the appeal of it. I know its Doctor Who, and the good guys always prevail, and I love the show for that but I tend not to feel much suspense about that when one of the character's essentially comes out and says "I'm here, so it'll all be fine, honestly, I'm proof of that. There's literally no reason to worry about me."

 

Completley disagree. The revelation throws up so many other questions. Why is she in prison? And wasn't she with a religious order when we saw her in the Angels episode? IS she still a 'weapon'? Does she kill the Doctor and if so why?

 

That's the biggest thing, who kills the Doctor and why? The Song revelation is the tip of the iceberg.

 

Also, time can change!

Edited June 5, 2011 by GalaxyV.2

[Vamp]

I know people think Moffat's timewimeyness is clever but I'm getting tired of the "I'm from the future, I know how this will end, you know how this will end, we all know how this will end" plot. The first time I liked it but less and less so.

I'd have to agree with this actually. The cyclical plots are getting a little tiresome, in a similar way to RTD's constant use of 'OMG world exploding WAIT deusexmachina everything's fine'. I guess, though, that the fact we don't have those 'magic saves the world' moments any more is why Moff's stories are so much better in comparison.

 

That and the River Song revelation seems very odd when River was amazed to meet Donna but seemed considerably less so at meeting her own mother before she was pregnant.

To be fair, she probably never expected to meet Donna, whilst she seemed to know she'd meet her mother in the future and exactly when and where that would be.

 

I still think if you went back in time and met your mother before you were born you'd react far more enthusiastically. Even if you did expect to meet her. Though if River did kill Rory (which she didn't) then I suppose she'd be more cold.

 

And I wasn't favouring RTD's endings by any means. As good a writer as I think RTD can be it always amused me that he ranted on dream sequences because they rarely develop a plot, but then is so happy to use variations of a great big reboot button. Then again I seem to remember reading a Moffat comment that in the RTD years he often found himself rushing his episodes and that's where the timeywimey stuff came from. He seemed to have a low opinion of it himself. But then I don't mind slightly rubbishy conclusions, I feel like that's part of the charter for Doctor Who, but its not just reserved for the conclusions anymore.

 

I do hope Let's Kill Hitler is a bit more of a fun romp, its gotta be right? Doesn't really feel like we've had one of those this series. I'm a bit bored of things being dark and gloomy. Bugger that, its Doctor Who. Its fun in doses, and great if done right, but the show's better than having to rely on that all the time. Leave that to Tim Burton. They even manged to make Doctor Who and pirates bloody gloomy and boring. Although the budget doesn't seem to be helping, everything since they had their big road trip in the good old US of A has felt distinctly cheap, bar the TARDIS scrap yard.

 

Exactly. Plus remember 'SPOILERS'.

 

So she wouldn't tell them but she'd still react.

 

The revelation throws up so many other questions. Why is she in prison? And wasn't she with a religious order when we saw her in the Angels episode? IS she still a 'weapon'? Does she kill the Doctor and if so why?

 

So the revelation of this episode has thrown up questions that have already been asked? The only real new one is the fact that the clerics were previously opposed to the Doctor, but that wasn't the 'big' cliffhanger. And the bit about whether she's a weapon or not has pretty much always been the question about River, who is she, is she dangerous, is she good, etc. Not great work for a massive cliffhanger. And actually, thinking about it, it would have probably worked infinitely better if they didn't say who River was. If they hadn't have hyped her revelation, if the Doctor had looked at the cot then looked at her, if the Doctor had raised his eyes, if she had shook her head and he then raced off to the TARDIS and then Amy asked River what had happened and she'd said "he's worked out who I am" before vanishing again that would have been a good cliffhanger. It'd have still been a timeywimey conclusion again but its better than what happened. I honestly don't expect them to kill River or do anything else to rewrite her current established timeline, so using her and having her constantly talk about how the Doctor's already managed to this or that and now, have her say that he knows he can save the day because he already has, just reminds me of the fact that I don't expect her to die again. There's my suspense gone to be honest. Like I say, there were bits that I loved, it was a faily good episode but I don't think I could call it great. Maybe a rewatch will change my view of it. But that's my take on things now.

Edited June 5, 2011 by Vamp

[rohpete]

Teaser trailer for 2nd half http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erH-6vd8C5o

[rohpete]

Seen this in the comments on the you you tube vid

 

Actually, the biggest spoiler going around the forums is that the Autumn series is set *before* the Spring series, bridging the gap between A Christmas Carol and The Impossible Astronaut, then episode 13 continues from the end of episode 7.

 

Given everything we know about episode 8, it's got nothing to do with episode 7, so it's not a two-parter at least, even if that spoiler isn't true

[Adam South]

Personally loved the episode, though wasn't exactly wowed by the cliffhanger. Although, given the amount of time between transmission of last night's and the next episode, probably right to not go full kilter- there'd be a lot of frustrated folks out there who'd be giving Moffatt all sorts of grief.

 

Ref. the River Song reveal (I sussed this and tweeted so as far back as episode one of this current run (@Adam_Southward if you care to check!)) and her non-reaction to meeting Amy and Rory before Amy was preggers- well, if you think about it, it can easily be explained in the same way that they haven't been able to tell the Doctor they saw him killed. It's part of Amy and Rory's future, so they mustn't be told. And River is extremely skilled at holding back future secrets ('Spoilers, sweetie!'), to the extent where she can restrain any reaction (especially if she is part Time Lord) so bit of a non-issue for me.

Edited June 5, 2011 by Adam South

[andrew "the ref" coyne]

It's been established that river songs life will be played backwards in correlation to the doctors, I.e. Technically speaking we should see river song get younger with each passing appearance. The fact that song can now regenerate means that song can now be played by different actors over forthcoming seasons, and is a useful way of getting around the fact that alex Kingston will get older as her character is suppose to get younger.

 

My theory is that the baby / melody / song is set to become a future doctor who super baddie. E.g. From rivers point of view...

 

- baby is kidnapped.

- melody is brainwashed to hate the doctor and try and take him down.

- melody / river learns the error of her ways and goes to jail

- river and the doctor marry but there relationship is on off due to their time travelling antics

- falls in love with the doctor

- river dies saving the doctor

 

Maybe we will see two rivers / melodys floating around for a few seasons... One evil and one post rehabilitation.

Edited June 5, 2011 by andrew "the ref" coyne

[Vamp]

Personally loved the episode, though wasn't exactly wowed by the cliffhanger. Although, given the amount of time between transmission of last night's and the next episode, probably right to not go full kilter- there'd be a lot of frustrated folks out there who'd be giving Moffatt all sorts of grief.

 

Ref. the River Song reveal (I sussed this and tweeted so as far back as episode one of this current run (@Adam_Southward if you care to check!)) and her non-reaction to meeting Amy and Rory before Amy was preggers- well, if you think about it, it can easily be explained in the same way that they haven't been able to tell the Doctor they saw him killed. It's part of Amy and Rory's future, so they mustn't be told. And River is extremely skilled at holding back future secrets ('Spoilers, sweetie!'), to the extent where she can restrain any reaction (especially if she is part Time Lord) so bit of a non-issue for me.

 

Yeah, but Amy and Rory knowing about the Doctor's death is a shit example because we saw them react. Several times in fact.

[GalaxyV.2]

But Vamp she's met them before, Infact we don't know the current situation with Rory and Amy in relation to her time line. I thought her reaction to Rory was perfect, subtle and sad, not overblown.

[JNLister]

Courtesty of Holy Moly, an old post from rec.arts.drwho, an old school USENET newsgroup. Check out the date and the poster as well as what he says.

 

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.dr...845f05e9b213df9

[freaky]

That's utterly amazing.

[Foale]

Courtesty of Holy Moly, an old post from rec.arts.drwho, an old school USENET newsgroup. Check out the date and the poster as well as what he says.

 

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.dr...845f05e9b213df9

 

Fuck that's awesome. Who would've thought 16 years later..

[LariatTom]

Wow, that's pretty amazing. In a way it's nice to see that something he thought of 16 years ago was clearly still in his mind and he's implemented it into his writing of the show.

 

I thought the last episode was pretty good, but the ending wasn't really dealt with that well...they could have made it far more cliffhanger-y, and if the idea that the second part of the series is set between Christmas Carol and the start of this series, does that mean we'll be without Rory and Amy for a part of it? Similarly, if the Christmas episode picks up from the end of this episode, will he be alone? It's a fantastic name for the next episode though. I agree with comments on the previous page (I think) in hoping that that episode will be light hearted and fun. We need some of that in this series otherwise it all seems a bit too serious.

[JNLister]

I like the idea of the "second half occurs before first half", but it effectively means the viewer has four chronologies to cope with:

 

1) The order in which we see the episodes

2) The chronological order in which the events take place (eg pirates before Nixon before astronaut shoots Doctor)

3) The chronological order in which most of the main characters experience the events

4) The chronological order in which Melody Pond/River Song experiences the events

 

Even by Dr Who standards, that could be a bit much for a Saturday teatime audience. Get the dude from Memento watching and his head would explode.

[ReturnOfTheMack]

Interesting. Its a kind of predestination paradox. The Doctor chose that name because of the meanings behind it (according to The Master, amongst others), meanings that came around due to his actions. I quite like that.