The Fortean/paranormal/conspiracy thread

[Horrorshow]

If Horrowshow was a building and I was a metal ball.

 

Who's that? My Japanese counterpart?

[Surf Digby]

lol Triplegay got pwned!!!!!1111 ~~~~ lmao, etc...

[FLips]

If Horrorshow was a building and I was a metal ball.

 

Fixed.

Edited September 14, 2011 by TripleGay

[DJ Kris]

It's not about assuming that everything you hear is a lie. Far from it, Kris. But when you encounter evidence that you feel brings something that you've been told into question, it's natural that you might want to dig a little deeper

Absolutely, but there is a difference between evidence and speculation and where 9/11 is concerned the two seem to get confused a lot!

 

 

What have our democratic governments done to earn our undying trust though? In theory, those who we elect are our servants and servants should always be monitored closely. That's not just our right. It's our duty. Each of us has made a decision to accept whichever theory makes the most sense to us personally based on the evidence we've encountered. The work of Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth compels me to believe that there are discrepancies in the official 9/11 story.

I'm not saying anything about undying trust, I pointing out that th whole world saw 2 planes fly into the towers, so anything suggesting otherwise needs to really step up to prove it. We also all saw them collapes and honestly I see no reason why that wouldn't result from the planes crashing into them, so again, anyone wanting to suggest otherwise really needs to have some serious evidence, which they don't.

 

 

According to the official FEMA report, WTC 7 sustained relatively light damage prior to it's collapse. So why did in go down and again how many examples can you find of steel-frame high-rise buildings that have been ravaged by severe fires collapsing as a result of said fires?

I understand you may have missed part of this thread, but the idea that it only sustained light damage is totally untrue and while someone may correct me, I understand that a later more informed report found that one side of it had lost about 25% of it's lower half putting extreme pressure on the rest of it. That combined with the fire that went on for hours on (I think) the 5th floor made it collapes and even the firefighters could see that it was going to happen so pulled back.

 

If you watch the footage of it collapsing you'll see the roof starts to cave in several seconds before it finally falls. There was actually nothing unusual about it's collapes.

[Loki]

I see Horrorshow is resorting to the classic "ignore any posts that challenge my assumptions" technique pioneered in this thread by Duane.

 

It's like somebody pointing at the one blue thread in a green blanket and saying "but isn't the blanket blue?".

[ReturnOfTheMack]

With respect RotM, my post (#1145) related to corroded steel, not melted steel.

 

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, even the official 9/11 reports have been unable to explain some of the aspects of the building's collapses, describing such things as the corrosion of steel beams as unexplained events. The FEMA report stated that the severe corrosion and subsequent erosion of multiple steel samples from the collapsed buildings was very unusual and that no clear explanation for the source of the sulphur they discovered could be identified.

 

 

Apologies I misunderstood what you were getting at.

 

Wall board is CaSO4.2H2O. A 4'x10' section of 5/8' wall board weighs about 110 pounds. Of that, about 20 pounds is sulfur. Every 4' of single sided wall is 20 pounds of sulfur. Double sided partition walls are 40# of sulfur. Conservatively estimating about 400 sheets per floor gives 8,000 pounds of sulfur per floor. About 100 stories gives 800,000 pounds of sulfur for WTC-1. Allow another 800,000 pounds for WTC2 and you get about 1.6 million pounds of sulfur for those buildings alone.

 

Where do you think all the sulfur came from?

 

 

 

According to the official FEMA report, WTC 7 sustained relatively light damage prior to it's collapse. So why did in go down and again how many examples can you find of steel-frame high-rise buildings that have been ravaged by severe fires collapsing as a result of said fires?

 

 

The National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) has released its long-awaited report on the collapse of World Trade 7 following the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. "Our take-home message today is that the reason for the collapse of World Trade Center 7 is no longer a mystery," NIST lead investigator Shyam Sunder told journalists at this morning's press conference in Gaithersburg, Md. "WTC 7 collapsed because of fires fueled by office furnishings. It did not collapse from explosives or from diesel fuel fires."

 

Conspiracy theorists have long pointed to the collapse of the 47-story structure as key evidence that the U.S. government orchestrated or abetted the 9/11 attacks. No planes struck the building, and the commonly available views of the exterior didn't show significant damage. Yet, at 5:20 pm, 7 hours after the collapse of the Twin Towers (WTC 1 and 2), WTC 7 rapidly fell in on itself. Since WTC 7 housed Secret Service and CIA offices, conspiracy theorists claimed that the building was destroyed in a controlled demolition in order to obliterate evidence of the U.S. government's complicity in the terrorist attacks. "It is impossible for a building to fall the way it fell without explosives being involved," stated actress and TV personality Rosie O'Donnell of ABC's The View in March 2007. "For the first time in history, steel was melted by fire. It is physically impossible," she said.

 

Today's report confirms that a fire was, indeed, the cause. "This is the first time that we are aware of, that a building taller than about 15 stories has collapsed primarily due to fires," Sunder told reporters at the press conference. "What we found was that uncontrolled building fires--similar to fires experienced in other tall buildings--caused an extraordinary event, the collapse of WTC7." The unprecedented nature of the event means that understanding the precise mechanism of the collapse is important not just to answer conspiracy theorists' questions, but to improve safety standards in the engineering of large buildings.

 

The final report describes how debris from the collapse of WTC 1 ignited fires on at least 10 floors of WTC 7 at the western half of the south face. Fires on Floors 7 through 9 and 11 through 13 burned out of control, because the water supply to the automatic sprinkler system had failed. The primary and backup water supply to the sprinkler systems for the lower floors relied on the city's water supply. Those water lines were damaged by the collapse of WTC 1 and 2. These uncontrolled fires in WTC 7 eventually spread to the northeast part of the building, where the collapse began.

 

 

 

After 7 hours of uncontrolled fires, a steel girder on Floor 13 lost its connection to one of the 81 columns supporting the building. Floor 13 collapsed, beginning a cascade of floor failures to Floor 5. Column 79, no longer supported by a girder, buckled, triggering a rapid succession of structural failures that moved from east to west. All 23 central columns, followed by the exterior columns, failed in what's known as a "progressive collapse"--that is, local damage that spreads from one structural element to another, eventually resulting in the collapse of the entire structure.

 

The report clarifies a number of widely debated issues concerning the collapse, particularly the role of the building's many diesel fuel tanks and the importance of structural damage from falling WTC 1 debris. Both of those factors have been cited by investigators as possibly contributing to the collapse; the 2006 Popular Mechanics book Debunking 9/11 Myths: Why Conspiracy Theories Can't Stand Up to the Facts mentions both hypotheses. However, the final NIST report downplays both scenarios, concluding that the diesel fuel stored in tanks (and intended to power backup generators) did not burn long enough or hot enough to account for structural failures. And, while debris damage to WTC 7's southern exterior was considerable (and initiated the destructive fires), the collapse originated in the northeast portion of the building. In fact, the report concludes: "Even without the structural damage, WTC 7 would have collapsed from fires."

 

The report determines that the actual culprit in the collapse was the combustion of ordinary building furnishings: "These uncontrolled fires had characteristics similar to those that have occurred previously in tall buildings." If the sprinkler system in WTC 7 had been working, it is likely that "the fires in WTC 7 would have been controlled and the collapse prevented." The report also suggests that current engineering standards for coping with fire-induced thermal expansion need to be re-examined, particularly for buildings like WTC 7 that have long, unsupported floor spans. A key factor in the collapse, NIST concluded, was the failure of structural "connections that were designed to resist gravity loads, but not thermally induced lateral loads." According to Sunder: "For the first time we have shown that fire can induce a progressive collapse."

 

Spurred by conspiracy theorists' questions, investigators did look specifically at the possibility that explosives were involved. "Hypothetical blast events did not play a role in the collapse of WTC 7," the report states, adding that investigators "found no evidence whose explanation required invocation of a blast event." Moreover, the smallest charge capable of initiating column failure "would have resulted in a sound level of 130 dB [decibels] to 140 dB at a distance of at least half a mile." Witnesses did not report hearing such a loud noise, nor is one audible on recordings of the collapse.

 

NIST will accept public comment on the final report until Sept. 15, 2008.

 

 

Read more: World Trade Center 7 Report Puts 9/11 Conspiracy Theory to Rest - Popular Mechanics

 

 

 

 

Oh, and the PM ebook has videos of flight 73 hitting the pentagon.

Edited September 15, 2011 by ReturnOfTheMack

[Dynamite Duane]

This video is well worth checking out if you watched the BBC 3 Conspiracy Road Trip programme or for that matter anyone interested in the 9/11 topic. It's an excellent rebuttal and only about 40mins long. Keelan makes some valid points and quotes some expert engineers.

 

Propaganda Defined: BBC Conspiracy Road Trip Review

 

By the way Charlie Veitch who featured in the Road Trip programme is known for "doing a Duane", as it's now known as around here Myself and others posed questions at him on Facebook regarding the anomolies of 9/11 and he never replied. Odd as well how he left Facebook in March when he decided he needed to go all low-key following March 26 demonstrations in London, then a month or 2 later he reappeared on there.

[Dynamite Duane]

Oh, and the PM ebook has videos of flight 73 hitting the pentagon.

Have I missed something? I must see this! I've yet to see conclusive video evidence of the airliner hitting the Pentagon.

[ReturnOfTheMack]

Theres more than enough evidence without the video... but Popular Mechanics say they have it. Go buy the enchanced ebook and see.

[King Pitcos]

Keelan makes some valid points and quotes some expert engineers.

Is that video made by ex-UKFFer Keelan who splashed his mental illness all over this thread? http://ukff.com/index.php?showtopic=118572

Edited September 19, 2011 by King Pitcos

[ReturnOfTheMack]

Here you go Duane

 

August 4, 2011 12:00 AM BUY THE BOOK

Debunking 9/11 Myths is available as a paperback, ebook, and enhanced ebook. The latter contains ten videos and audio clips, carefully selected to support the evidence presented, including the security camera footage of Flight 22 crashing into the Pentagon.

 

 

 

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Debunking...e/9781588169433

[Loki]

This video is well worth checking out if you watched the BBC 3 Conspiracy Road Trip programme or for that matter anyone interested in the 9/11 topic. It's an excellent rebuttal and only about 40mins long. Keelan makes some valid points and quotes some expert engineers.

 

Propaganda Defined: BBC Conspiracy Road Trip Review

 

By the way Charlie Veitch who featured in the Road Trip programme is known for "doing a Duane", as it's now known as around here Myself and others posed questions at him on Facebook regarding the anomolies of 9/11 and he never replied. Odd as well how he left Facebook in March when he decided he needed to go all low-key following March 26 demonstrations in London, then a month or 2 later he reappeared on there.

 

You've got no comment or input at all on the last 3 or 4 pages of this thread? Where people have debated and presented proof that answers pretty much all the main contentions of 9/11 theorists? And you're going to instead post a 40 fucking minute documentary made by a guy who famously lost his shit all over this forum? You really suck, Duane. At least Horrorshow had the balls to have some back and forth before pulling the disappearing act.

 

EDIT: oh, wow. The first few pages of that Keelan thread are brilliant. He's a complete lunatic. Butch posted a cartoon a couple of pages in from Viz that perfectly sums up the madness of conspiracy theory.

Edited September 20, 2011 by Loki

[DJ Kris]

You've got no comment or input at all on the last 3 or 4 pages of this thread? Where people have debated and presented proof that answers pretty much all the main contentions of 9/11 theorists? And you're going to instead post a 40 fucking minute documentary made by a guy who famously lost his shit all over this forum? You really suck, Duane. At least Horrorshow had the balls to have some back and forth before pulling the disappearing act.

Are you surprised? It's what he does. I'm pretty sure in the Hollie Greig thread one of the mods had to tell him he would be banned if he posted once more in the thread without addressing some of the comments already thrown at him.

 

On issues like this Duane has already formed his opinion and will not accept any facts presented to him.

[The King Of Swing]

Duane's antics are not even ammusing anymore.

[Astro Hollywood]

Duane, your next posts in this thread, or in any other threads where you choose to talk about this wacky shit, better be comprised of actual discussion.

 

No more link spamming. No more pasting of nonsense articles written by cum-smelling schizos. And definitely no more hit and running. If someone has a point directed at you, respond to it, even if it's just to say "I have no answer for that." Your one-sided shit has gotten beyond tiresome, and from now on, it'll earn you a suspension.

 

Luv

 

The UKFF Illuminati