Official ROH Discussion Thread

[GlennCullen]

I'd forgotten about that one! I can remember them having a match in autumn 06 that wasn't much cop due to Dragon's knackered shoulder. I'll try and rewatch them all at some point, probably in the summer when I've got some time off.

 

Re : Steen, I just watched his match with Human Tornado at SoCal Showdown. The problem with Steens' heel turn is that Steen has essentially always wrestled like a heel, so in the HT match he doesn't really do anything different, apart from licking himself and the camera, which just looks daft quite frankly. He needs to drop the comedy - if I was Pearce (thank fuck I'm not) I'd ban him from interacting with the crowd whatsoever in his matches. He needs to develop some new offence and let that do the talking. I think having Corino as his manager is a stroke of genius, as Steen just doesn't have the mike skills to carry this angle on his own.

 

Forget that. The crowd interaction is Steens strongest point, and its a nice change from the plethora of indy wrestlers who work through spots without paying any attention to the crowd.

[cobystag]

I'd forgotten about that one! I can remember them having a match in autumn 06 that wasn't much cop due to Dragon's knackered shoulder. I'll try and rewatch them all at some point, probably in the summer when I've got some time off.

 

The Enter The Dragon match that Gadge was talking about happened October 05.

 

But they had a match in Sept 06 at Motor City Madness where both of their ring gears were lost by the airline(?).

 

And yeah, Steen's merciless taunting of the fans is what's selling it so far. Bastard even wiped his ass with my Union Jack flag.

[Dearly Devoted Dexter]

Forget that. The crowd interaction is Steens strongest point, and its a nice change from the plethora of indy wrestlers who work through spots without paying any attention to the crowd

 

But if he's supposed to be a heel and he's still coming out with stuff that gets a laugh from the crowd.... This reminds me of something Raven once said. Talking about Paul E and Cornette, he remarked that both were supposed to be heels, but while he hated Paul E he never hated Cornette because he made you laugh so much. Like I said, I've only seen SoCal Showdown at this point - and Steen is super over in California anyway, so maybe ROH were a tad unfortunate that that was the first show post-turn for Steen. I thought it was really unerving the way that he looked at the camera as he pinned Tornado...but then he licked it, and he came across like a guy playing a heel role and the suspension of disbelief went. But still, it's early days

[gadge]

Liking the discussion going on here. I had planned on starting FCT: Boston by now, but really want to finish Danielson's TV matches before the DVD ones. So here's some ongoing reviewage:

 

ROH on HDNet tapings #11 & #12 - 9/9/09 & 10/9/09

 

Episode 31 (airdate 26/10/09)

 

We open with a promo from Austin Aries and Kenny King who brag about defeating Danielson and eliminating Jerry Lynn from competition respectively in the previous episode. Tyler Black comes out, supposedly fuming about King's actions towards Lynn, but in actuality he barely seems annoyed. He draws King's opponent from the "everyone wants to kick Kenny King's ass lottery" and we have King vs Eddie Kingston in our main event. Alrighty then.

 

Sonjay Dutt vs Delirious vs Joey Ryan vs Necro Butcher - This is basically the Delirious vs Sonjay and Necro vs Embassy feuds jammed together. Necro takes a sunset flip powerbomb from the apron to the floor, which is ridiculous for a throwaway six and a half minute Four Corner Survival. Sonjay's singles victory over Delirious from the previous taping is wiped from relevence as Delirious gets his win back easily. Nothing too special here.

 

Skullkrusher Rasche Brown put a truck in the graveyard. Watch this guy in 2 weeks! Eddie Kingston isn't happy with his main event spot because he wants Chris Hero. He's going to make Kenny King pay anyway! Bryan Danielson is facing Roderick Strong in 2 weeks! Exclamation marks!

 

Brent Albright vs D'Lo Brown - This sounds about as appealing on paper as poking your eye with a sharp stick. What unfolds is actually a watchable heavyweight (by ROH standards) match, as long as you're prepared to accept Albright as a fan favourite. Good finish too, as D'Lo blasts Brent with a powerbomb, but when Brent kicks out of the folding press he then grabs the Crowbar and rolls through with it for the tap out at 9:20.

 

Colt Cabana vs Nigel McGuinness is going to be our main event next week. From Cabana's promo on the subject, you'd never guess those two had a long rivalry in 2005 with a handful of really nice matches. You wouldn't guess Cabana belonged anywhere near any main events anywhere either.

 

Eddie Kingston vs Kenny King - Speaking of non main event material, this is bland as heck. Kingston has some mild Philly support, King has no heat whatsoever. Hero comes out and distracts Kingston, who then walks into the Coronation for three at the eleven minute mark.

 

A completely irrelevent show this week.

 

Episode 32 (airdate 2/11/09)

 

The Young Bucks vs The Briscoes - Solid but unspectacular tag fare that had just about got up to third gear and the ten minute mark when the Dark City Fight Club run in drawing a no-contest. I only remembered that I knew that was the finish (courtesy of Final Countdown Tour: Dayton) as it happened, and it still sucked. The DVD match is much better.

 

His match with Nigel McGuinness as part of the Driven PPV (Domination live event) is #4 Danielson moment in ROH. It made me want to re-watch that match for one thing.

 

The American Wolves hype their match with Danielson and Roderick Strong "tonight" even though it's actually next week. Oops.

 

Rhett Titus vs Alex Payne - Not really a squash, as Rhett requires four minutes and a handful of tights to defest Sugarfoot. Meh.

 

Footage of Glory By Honor VIII, complete with a crowd actually reacting to stuff, makes me begin to regret not watching that instead. This taping has been pretty duff so far compared to recent ones. Let's hope Danielson's last two TV matches are worthwhile...

 

Tyler Black is feeling all sad about Jerry Lynn being out, but Nigel doesn't feel the same way. Tyler looks weak as hell here.

 

Claudio Castagnoli vs Grizzly Redwood - Now this is a proper squash. Slap the porpoise in impressive fashion in 3:00. Necro then saves Grizzly from a beard cutting at the hands of Ernie Osiris....

 

Nigel McGuinness vs Colt Cabana - To start, the commmentary is made to look ridiculous, as they've been talking about "internet speculation about Nigel's future" and yet as soon as Nigel comes out, he's greeted with telltale "Thank You" chants. The crowd are hot to start, but half pace, low impact euro-style mat wrestling and little else of note soon cools them off. Cabana wins with an inverted Colt 45 at twelve minutes or so to end a disappointing match.

 

The end of another blah episode...

 

Episode 33 (airdate 9/11/09)

 

Austin Aries cuts a cheap heat promo, and calls out Tyler Black to 'supervise' the Lucky Lottery. When Tyler pulls out the paper, Aries sets it on fire and it supposedly goes in Tyler's face. Not a convincing angle, it has to be said.

 

#3 on the Bryan Danielson great moments countdown is his Manhattan Mayhem II match with Morishima. A great match that I was lucky enough to witness live.

 

The Super Smash Bros vs Kevin Steen and El Generico - A decent little seven minuter. I have decided at this point the crowd aren't so much dead as they're just really small in number. Steen and Generico win with the package piledriver-brainbuster combo.

 

Prince Nana illogically accepts the Grizzly Redwood vs Ernie Osiris beard vs beard match. Yes, really. And then...

 

Chris Hero vs Bobby Dempsey - It's only been six to eight months, but this feud seems like lifetimes ago in ROH terms. Big, Bad Bobby does some no-selling, but gets clobbered with some elbows in 3:30. Eddie Kingston then comes out and says maybe he should be more like Hero. Whatever that means is not made clear.

 

Skullkrusher Rasche Brown vs Sal Rinauro - Short and to the point, but the Skullkrusher doesn't show much personality in his 67 second drubbing of Sal here. Weird, as in some of his DVD matches his wild eyed cackling as been the best part of his act.

 

Bryan Danielson and Roderick Strong vs The American Wolves - A solid non-title tag match, but as Danielson's penultimate HDNet bout I expected quite a bit more. The Wolves' double team moves take most of the spotlight, and they pick up the win with Edwards forcing Roderick to tap to the half crab after a low blow and a powerbomb/lungblower combo in 16:49.

 

The best bout of these tapings so far is on this episode, but it isn't saying much...

 

Episode 34 (airdate 16/11/09)

 

I find it interesting that Danielson's farewell show airs immediately after his penultimate bout. We'll see if the second night of tapings has a bigger crowd in...

 

Chris Hero vs Delirious - The crowd definitely seem more up for things as Hero comes out, but Delirious is jumped by Sonjay Dutt on his entrance. After a beatdown, Shane Hagadorn rolls Delirious in and the match starts regardless of Sonjay's interference. Hero works over Delirious in VERY dull fashion for five minutes or so, cutting off any comebacks before they even begin, then Delirious gets in one proper comeback before Hero hits a rolling elbow for the pin at 7:33. Boring stuff that didn't get anything over.

 

Apparently Danielson's #2 ROH moment is the Gut Check match with Cabana where he seperates his shoulder five minutes into a 60 minute draw. Maybe a top effort, but nowhere near a top 5 match...

 

Grizzley Redwood and Necro Butcher vs Joey Ryan and Prince Nana - This is Grizzley's beard vs Ernie Osiris' beard. Except, as Osiris is injured Nana has to wrestle, and he doesn't do anything, so it's Joey who takes the pin after a Redwood swinging DDT at just 5:04. A nothing match, and Osiris then gets his beard and hair cut to no reaction.

 

In between some bizarrely out of place clips of the Danielson vs Strong aftermath, Danielson's #1 ROH moment is the Glory By Honor V Night 2 match with KENTA. Damned right too. That's still the best match in ROH history for my money.

 

Recaps of Austin Aries fireball attack on Tyler Black and Kenny King taking out Jerry Lynn are shown next. Somehow that equates to Aries facing Colt Cabana in two weeks, while it's King vs Brent Albright next week. Alrighty then.

 

Skullkrusher Rasche Brown vs Darren Matthews - A much better squash than Brown's last, slap the porpoise in 68 seconds.

 

Bryan Danielson vs Roderick Strong -

 

Part One: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPXwAFtDLQM

Part Two: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cp_0XXhHQzc

Part Three: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fISe7lkBexs&NR=1

 

It's not a match up to the quality of their 2005-6 DVD encounters, but it's a more than fitting farewell for Danielson by the standards of the HDNet show. Dave Prazak's comment about it being like Malenko vs Guerrero in the same building fifteen years earlier did made me cringe. The matwork in the early going feels like an exhibition too, but once they get the strikes and big moves going, it's real good stuff. Danielson naturally does the right thing and Strong goes over with a middle rope Super Gutbuster followed by a running big boot in 18:04. Strong says some kind words and the entire roster surrounds the ring to say thank you, but we fade to black before any farewell speech.

 

Episode 35 (airdate 23/11/09)

 

We get a brief farewell package to Bryan Danielson, sadly not featuring anything beyond where last week left off, then it's back to business...

 

Kenny King vs Brent Albright - A reasonable eight minute TV match lacking in proper fire from Albright if he's supposed to be looking to avenge Jerry Lynn. King takes a bit of a beating in terms of being thrown around with some suplexes, then when Albright tries to suplex him in from the apron, Rhett Titus grabs the foot (which the camera pretty mich misses) and King lands on top for the three count. Aries then runs in to try and help them repeat the spike piledriver, but Cabana makes the save. That's at least some build to next week and also to Reverse the Curse, the early December live event, so I guess that's good booking.

 

D'Lo Brown vs Sal Rinauro - D'Lo pisses about for a couple of minutes then puts Sal away with a modified Sky High.

 

Nigel McGuinness makes his last contribution to ROH on HDNet with a hilarious promo putting over only himself before he walks straight out of the building and off down either Swanson or Rittner. In my opinion, that's a quality farewell.

 

The Super Smash Bros vs Brandon Day & John Kermon - You know, i quite like watching the SSB work, but it's difficult to tell which team are the jobbers here if you don't see which one gets the entrance and the win. Four formula but fun minutes and that's our lot.

 

Jim Cornette cuts a backstage promo hyping his 'live' debut in 2 weeks (ie at the next tapings, which had already occured when this aired) and making inside references to his TNA release. I'll make more judgment on this once I've seen him in front of a crowd.

 

ROH World Tag Team Titles: The American Wolves vs The Young Bucks - A cracking TV tag title match that would probably have got five extra minutes on a DVD show, but was still 12:24 of top stuff regardless. I think it speaks volumes about the iffy quality of this set of tapings (bar Danielson matches) so far that the crowd do come properly unglued for this. There's certainly nothing held back here. Edwards makes Matt tap to the half crab for the victory after Richards takes out Nick with the DR Driver.

 

Episode 36 (airdate 30/11/09)

 

Yet more recap of the Jerry Lynn and Tyler Black injury angles to build tonight's Austin Aries vs Colt Cabana main event starts us off. Onto the action...

 

Eddie Kingston vs Claudio Castagnoli - Claudio is introduced by Chris Hero, who references episode 33 by saying Kingston will never be more like Hero. Kingston then uses Hero's loaded elbow pad to KO Claudio with a spinning backfist at 6:33. Aha, Hero never saw that coming. I found the tease of Hero and Claudio working together (this airing about a month before their actual reunion, if it's at Final Battle, I can't remember) more interesting than the rest of the match...

 

The Briscoes vs Dark City Fight Club - Lots of clubbering in this one, with attempts at more not going too well - DCFC blow a Hart Attack Legdrop and repeat the spot seconds later, for example. The match is thrown aout at 8:24 anyway, as they start brawling outside the ring, then using chairs. The crowd wake up for slumber for the brawling, so I guess the non-finish works.

 

A-Double cuts a cool promo after that, then onto the bizarre...

 

The Set vs Kevin Steen & El Generico - What on earth are the Set supposed to be? One of them is about Steen's size, where the other is short and incredibly skinny - he makes Generico look like Sheamus in comparison. They have a couple of double teams before getting put away at about three and a half minutes when the skinny guy gets brutalised. Nice.

 

Alongside the live debut of Jim Cornettte, Tyler Black is also back next week. That's from the November tapings, so a few weeks after his return from injury in real terms.

 

Austin Aries vs Colt Cabana - Our final main event of these tapings is non-title. They wrestle an unusual style which the crowd watches intently but quietly between bigger spots, but they do keep the crowd with them as they react instantly to signature stuff. Big nearfalls come as Aries grabs the ropes after the Colt 45, and Cabana kicks out of the brainbuster, but then we get another screwy finish which is kinda annoying. Cabana has Aries in the Billy Goats Curse, Kenny King runs out with Brent Albright hot on his heels, then Aries taps behind the back of the distracted referee, Cabana goes to deal with Rhett Titus, and Aries hits the IED and kick to the head before getting a submission with Last Chancery at 12:37. I guess at least this sets up Cornette coming in as the authority figure next week.

 

Overall, this main event was pretty typical of these tapings - just about watchable, but nowhere near previous tapings for quality or excitement, let alone the DVD shows. Danielson vs Strong and American Wolves vs Young Bucks were the only genuine highlights. We'll see how things are in HDNetland again around the Boiling Point DVD show...

Edited May 22, 2010 by gadge

[Dearly Devoted Dexter]

First of all I feel I owe the UKFF an apology. I know that for the past five months I should have been watching TNA, getting into the new "Monday Night Wars" and enjoying the "guilty pleasure" that is Kevin Nash. But gosh darn it, I somehow felt compelled to watch the best promotion in the U.S. instead. I realise now that my actions were completely deplorable, and I look forward to watching Sacrafice in May.

 

SoCal Showdown

[Daaaaaad!]

First of all I feel I owe the UKFF an apology. I know that for the past five months I should have been watching TNA, getting into the new "Monday Night Wars" and enjoying the "guilty pleasure" that is Kevin Nash. But gosh darn it, I somehow felt compelled to watch the best promotion in the U.S. instead.

WWE?

[PowerButchi]

First of all I feel I owe the UKFF an apology. I know that for the past five months I should have been watching TNA, getting into the new "Monday Night Wars" and enjoying the "guilty pleasure" that is Kevin Nash. But gosh darn it, I somehow felt compelled to watch the best promotion in the U.S. instead.

WWE?

 

There or TNA or WLW or NWWL or something, aye.

[IANdrewDiceClay]

First of all I feel I owe the UKFF an apology. I know that for the past five months I should have been watching TNA, getting into the new "Monday Night Wars" and enjoying the "guilty pleasure" that is Kevin Nash. But gosh darn it, I somehow felt compelled to watch the best promotion in the U.S. instead.

WWE?

 

There or TNA or WLW or NWWL or something, aye.

3 quid badly edited and grainy XPW DVD's from HMV?

Edited April 28, 2010 by Ian_hitmanhart

[PowerButchi]

Even better, the 1PW ones going for a pound in the CeX in Wrexham.

[gadge]

Oh dear DDD, what was that first paragraph all about there? Nice review after that. Power Slam this month says Tornado wrestled in Phoenix as a make good for not doing the TV tapings he'd been booked for, then stayed retired after that one shot.

[Dearly Devoted Dexter]

Power Slam this month says Tornado wrestled in Phoenix as a make good for not doing the TV tapings he'd been booked for, then stayed retired after that one shot.

 

Really? That's a fairly odd way of making amends. Why couldn't he have just wrestled - was it Corino he was supposed to face? - in NYC and then retired? Odd.

 

The first para was in response to a TNA thread I happened to click on where someone said "I bet that guy who posts in the ROH thread is voting over and over for McGuinness to get a title shot." What the fuck, I never even breathed a word on the matter!?!? Yes, I like ROH, and I mainly post in the ROH thread. This appears to be a huge problem for some.

 

I've quoted this before but one more time : Honky Tonk Man - "how stupid is it when someone in the business calls someone else a mark? We're all marks for crying out loud!! If we weren't marks then we wouldn't be involved in this fake phony showbusiness." Amen to that.

[air_raid]

Good stuff Dexter, fuck 'em.

 

The epidemic of attitude given to wrestlers like Danielson and Punk (and their fans) for not being as good as Cena or Shannon Moore or Kevin Nash despite being "favourites of the I(nternet) R(asslin) C(ommunity), " posted on the internet on a forum/community of fans of wrestling read by other fans of wrestling on the internet is quite frankly unbelievable.

 

If you find yourself posting in this place in your spare time, you can't really pretend to be any less of a loser than anyone else here, even if you do prefer Kevin Nash/TNA to Davey Richards/ROH. Grow up.

[IANdrewDiceClay]

The epidemic of attitude given to wrestlers like Danielson and Punk

What do you mean "wrestlers like Danielson and Punk"? They're property of mainstream wrestling. They are ours now! MWAAHAHAHAHA!

 

I quite like Daniel Bryan and the leader of the Straight Edge Society personally.

 

The first para was in response to a TNA thread I happened to click on where someone said "I bet that guy who posts in the ROH thread is voting over and over for McGuinness to get a title shot." What the fuck, I never even breathed a word on the matter!?!? Yes, I like ROH, and I mainly post in the ROH thread. This appears to be a huge problem for some.

That was me and I never mentioned you at all. I said "like the lads who post in the ROH discussion thread" or something along those lines. Dont get your knickers in a twist. I was just saying I believe Desmond Wolfe is getting votes for his old ROH supporters on a internet poll. I dont see how that's an insult. I'd vote for Hulk Hogan if he went on Strictly Come Dancing, whether I thought he could do the rumber or not. I legit didnt mean to be a dick about it at all.

Edited April 28, 2010 by Ian_hitmanhart

[PowerButchi]

DDD has a history of Menstruation in this thread about people knocking roh in other threads. Don't worry about it. It's amixture of Unwarranted Self Importance, and what Freud termed Penis Envy.

Edited April 29, 2010 by ButchReedMark

[PowerButchi]

I legit didnt mean to be a dick about it at all.

 

Well, he obviously can't take a joke, so fuck him.