Official ROH Discussion Thread

[PowerButchi]

Reading about the past few shows, the booking in roh is odd these days. Colt Cabana and drawing pins? Gadge, please explain. Meltzer was saying that Corny was blowing a gasket about it.

Edited May 14, 2010 by ButchReedMark

[harlow2]

for people who have seen the hd net show

is this -

http://www.rohwrestling.com/store.php?sec=prod∏=547

woth buying

[air_raid]

1. Grudge Match: Tyler Black vs, Jimmy Jacobs- Episode # 1

2. Bryan Danielson vs. Austin Aries- Episode # 3

3. Austin Aries vs. Kenny Omega- Episode # 4

4. Bryan Danielson vs. Tyler Black- Episode # 6

5. Roderick Strong vs. Austin Aries- Episode # 7

6, Bryan Danielson vs. Tyler Black- Episode # 8

7. World Tag Team Title Match: Kevin Steen & El Generico vs. Rhett Titus & Kenny King- Episode # 9

8. Jay Briscoe vs. Kenny Omega vs. Kenny King- Episode # 10

9. World Tag Team Title Tables Match: Kevin Steen & El Generico vs. The American Wolves- Episode # 11

10. ROH World Title Match: Jerry Lynn vs. Bryan Danielson vs. Tyler Black vs. Austin Aries- Episode # 12

 

Looks very good - Dexter, is this a fair representation of the "cant miss" matches from the first 12 episodes or is there anything they missed?

[JPC]

Why not try cross referencing this with his list of the best from the first year of the hdnet shows? See how many of those dvd matches are in his list?

 

The list is in the last three pages somewhere.

[britishbulld0g]

for people who have seen the hd net show

is this -

http://www.rohwrestling.com/store.php?sec=prod∏=547

woth buying

 

There's some very good matches on there (the two Danielson vs Black bouts were superb) but you could probably watch them all on youtube since the user "rohbrazil" has uploaded every episode so far. If you want to save money you can probably find all those matches by searching on youtube. If you'd rather watch them on a big screen TV then fork out for the DVD.

 

How well do you guys think the Black/Strong title match will do? If I remember correctly Strong won the last match between the two and the match before that went to a time limit draw. Assuming Black won't be dropping the belt just yet, I assume he wins this one and the series is tied.

 

I'm really liking the pairing of Steen and Corino as well.

 

EDIT: Wow...nice avi and sig someone's kindly added for me. Can I assume that the moderators/admin suffer from a slight bout of homophobia?

Edited May 14, 2010 by britishbulld0g

[bigjay]

Quick question about the ROH tapings, if anyone knows, I recently read their Newsline on their website and they said that they will be taping 7 weeks of ROH on HDNet on Friday. 7 weeks worth of taping in one day? Surely that can't be right, so how do the ROH on HDNet work?

[cobystag]

It's two days, Friday and Saturday.

 

But ordinarily it's six so I don't know how they're gonna work an extra taping in. I guess the fact that the Saturday show starts in the afternoon will help.

[Dearly Devoted Dexter]

Tapings 15 & 16

[gadge]

Hmmm - I really didn't dig the September tapings either D-triple, so if I don't get much from the November ones I might give up on the show as a whole and just seek out anything you recommend.

 

In the mean time, I need to catch up on me DVDs. For now - this:

 

Dragon Gate USA: Open The Untouchable Gate - Chicago, IL - 6/9/09

 

Dragon Kid vs Masato Yoshino - We open with the rematch set up by Too Cold Scorpio after their quality encounter at Historic Gate. This one is probably faster paced overall, going from spot to spot quicker than in their first match. In other words, this is built as a high tempo show opener, whereas their first bout was in the middle of the card and gave a bit more time for stuff going on to sink in. Yoshino kicks out of the Ultra Huracanrana that did for him in their first match, but after a big flurry of his own then succumbs to a Crucifix Bomb (Bible?) in just over 14 minutes. Once again, I'd say this tops their UK match from later in the year.

 

YAMATO & Gran Akuma vs Mike Quackenbush & Jigsaw - Another 14 minuter here, this time with plenty of both good and bad. Let's look at the bad first - there's several mistimed spots, either due to YAMATO and Akuma not having any experience teaming and (possibly) having a language barrier as well, and Jigsaw's knee injury hampers his offensive efforts pretty badly. On the other hand, YAMATO and Akuma are great bad guys to watch, Quackenbush is extremely over as a fan favourite and Jigsaw's knee injury only helps him on the crowd support front when trying to make the hot tag. When the hot tag is then made, the crowd buys into the drama as well as the spots, which covers for the problems with the latter for the most part. Quack 'n' Jig get the victory when Quack hits Akuma with the QD2, which looks stupidly dangerous. YAMATO puts Quack in a choke after, and it appears YAMATO/Akuma vs CHIKARA isn't settled just yet. I anticipate better stuff from this feud, potentially.

 

The Young Bucks then come out for a promo ahead of their main event match with Open The Twin Gate champions Genki Horiguchi and Ryo Saito. They repeat the 'Tag Team of the present' moniker they took on after their victory at Historic Gate, only to be interrupted by a surprise appearance from Jimmy Jacobs (remember him?). Jacobs "isn't invading, but here to recruit" but the Bucks aren't interested, and when Jacobs and his sidekick Mustafa Ali attack, Ali gets wiped out by More Bang For Your Buck. Horiguchi and Saito then sneak attack them immediately and leave them laying. Despicable heels are certainly a DG speciality. Overall, I liked the 'anything can happen' feel of the segment.

 

Bryan Danielson vs Naruki Doi - A cracking match in the usual mold of the best Danielson efforts, with the technical stuff leading into some striking then the big flurries and counters to counters of all the signature stuff in the red hot closing sequence. Doi wins with the Muscular Bomb in 22:25 to go to 2-0 in DGUSA (with that being the same finish as the main event of Historic Gate to boot). Danielson then doesn't say goodbye as such (which makes sense as ROH ran Chicago a couple of weeks later) but does put over Doi on the mic, then touts Davey Richards as his possible successor to the 'Best in the World' indy mantle. More on this later.

 

CIMA vs Brian Kendrick - After some feeling out mat work, then a fast paced sequence into a standoff, Kendrick jumps CIMA and from then on the match is pretty unspectacular as Kendrick gets his heat in generic WWE fashion (choking, punching etc) for the most part. The match is OK, but anyone going in with expectations of something really good is bound to be disappointed. CIMA wins with the Schwein followed by the Meteora in 10:20, the shortest match in DGUSA so far.

 

Davey Richards vs SHINGO - The DVD case bills this as the Battle of the Hard-Hitters, which is kinda stating the obvious. There's probably more wrestling than striking here, though, and a battle of body part work as Davey has his knee worked over (at least for awhile) and Davey later works over SHINGO's arm. I feel I should add Mike Quackenbush's commentary enhanced that side of the story for me. Davey's big dive basically misses SHINGO altogether and lands him in row 3, which is extra mental. It's big moves and a mllion kickouts from there on, until Davey hits the Shooting Star Press and turns the following kickout into the Kimura for the submission at 25:43. An epic battle that will impress the Richards fans and annoy those who aren't impressed by guys kicking out of EVERYTHING in equal measure. It's certainly as good as Doi/SHINGO from Historic Gate and Danielson/Doi earlier. Take that as you will.

 

Post match, the completely fan favourite Richards pays tribute to SHINGO and calls out Danielson after what was said earlier. Richards regales everyone with a story of how they used to room together, and Danielson says Richards did exactly what he predicted and had a great match, then when they go for a handshake, Richards kicks Danielson and puts the boots to him. A shouty heel promo ends in "Best In The World". I guess he has "No Remorse", or something. I also guess this means it's down to ROH to host Richards as a face at some point... the swerve just annoyed me here.

 

The Young Bucks vs Ryo Saito and Genki Horiguchi - They may have stolen the show at Historic Gate, but the Bucks have no chance of following Richards and SHINGO here. It's still a good match and a well received main event, but with the Twin Gate titles not on the line it should have been second from the top. The Bucks bring all their double team combos, but the Real Hazard duo have the sleaze and the questionable tactics, and this time when More Bang For Your Buck is hit, the ref is down. Horiguchi then blasts Matt Jackson with blue mist, and Ryo Saito hits the Double Cross (facebuster from a Razor's Edge position) for the decisive three count.

 

So, two shows in, and DGUSA has established a bunch of names to those who may be seeing them for the first time. There's been some cracking matches, and a couple of truly dazzling performances. We'll see if the next step can now be taken - compelling show to show storylines, starting with the crowning of the DGUSA Open The Freedom Gate Champion at the next show in November... in the mean time, buy this stuff.

 

DVD Extras

 

You have your PPV highlight package, a couple of promos used to advertise the PPV, and some matches:

 

I'm still not sure why they bother with the pre-show FRAY! - it's long, and not very exciting, and the gauntlet battle royale with pinfalls structure is straight out of the bad old days of TNA. Hallowicked going from the beginning to end wasn't enough to keep me awake some 30 minutes.

 

There's two Davey Richards vs SHINGO matches from FIP in 2006, which supposedly show the evolution of those two guys. Both matches are about 12 minutes, and are not really worth the time. The first one was on the Impact of Honor show which I actually own, and at best it's only third best match from that show. These FIP matches also feature plugs for ROHwrestling.com - it doesn't need to be said how stupid that seems.

 

Magnum Tokyo, BxB Hulk & Matt Sydal vs GAMMA, Naoki Tanisaki & Jimmy Rave from the Wrestle JAM show in July 2006 is the best of the bunch, a ten minute sprint notable for the future Evan Bourne doing his thing in full flow, and the entertaining antics of the heel team.

 

I'm pretty sure none of those special features have any bearing on anyone's decision to purchase the DVD, but for the future I reckon they'd be much better off with more of the stuff from Japan, and cutting out the FIP if only to stop advertising ROH. If they must have some FIP on there, how about some of the more modern stuff that never got released under the ROH banner? There might even be some FIP diehards that would then seek this stuff out.

[Sixteen Degrees]

It's a month off but Death Before Dishonor VIII looks packed so far:

 

ROH World Title Match

Tyler Black defends vs. Davey Richards

 

ROH World Tag Team Title Match

The Kings of Wrestling with Shane Hagadorn defend vs. Jay & Mark Briscoe

 

Grudge Match Months in the Making

Kevin Steen vs. El Generico

 

Pick 6 Contenders Series Match

(2) Christopher Daniels vs. Kenny Omega

[The Cum Doctor]

Steen vs. Generico is gonna be absolutely stunning. I can't wait to see it.

[Dearly Devoted Dexter]

I tell you what, I wish the fucking pound would do something against the dollar. $52 for two ROH DVD's??!?!? Ok, so you get one free, but still, $12 a disc is too much considering just a few years ago the

[gadge]

You need to pick better sales man, my last order was 4 ROH DVDs and one from SHIMMER for $64.50 in the 50% off one about two weeks ago. FCT:Boston review is 99% done and will be up tonight.

[Dearly Devoted Dexter]

I guess. Main reason I ordered them was that my girlfriend wanted a bday present for me. I still say the state of the pound is shocking at the moment.

 

I'm most of the way through "Gold Rush" - I wouldn't "rush" out to buy it anytime soon. 23 Skidoo!!!

[gadge]

Final Countdown Tour: Boston - 25/9/09

 

At risk of plagiarism - The hard camera is back in focus!!!

 

A big crowd in Boston here for the penultimate show in the Danielson & McGuinness era (plus Bret's there, I guess).

 

The Young Bucks vs Cheech & Cloudy - The best showing by Cheech & Cloudy in ROH by a million miles, this is what you get when you give your undercard talent 12 minutes and the green light to do their best with compatible opponents. The selection of spots here is pretty cool including a sequence involving a Gory Special I really enjoyed. Cheech & Cloudy push them hard, but it's More Bang For Your Buck that's the decisive factor in a Young Bucks victory. Really nice opener.

 

Sonjay Dutt vs Delirious - This one takes the story of their three HDNet encounters to this point and condenses it into a one match story, combined with some really nice wrestling in the second half of the match as the intensity picks up. Sonjay looks to have things in the bag when he counters Shadows Over Hell, but Delirious counters a La Magistral cradle for the rollup pinfall at 11:06. Sonjay levels Delirious after the bell, plants a lip lock on Daizee Haze, then when she slaps him he decides war is better than love and locks her in a Camel Clutch. That brings out a few jobbers to make the save from the locker room, which seems a bit OTT. Another good match that trumped most of their TV stuff.

 

Chris Hero vs Petey Williams vs Claudio Castagnoli vs El Generico - An all action Four Corner Survival most noteworthy for the continuing tease of the upcoming Kings of Wrestling reunion as they work together on and off here. Petey really needs to drop the Maple Leaf Muscle gimmick as it has nothing to do with the way he wrestles. Generico puts in a solid but supporting performance ahead of Ladder War II. It's Claudio who gets the duke with the Ricola Bomb on Petey at 9:39. This show is really enjoyable so far.

 

Bret Hart's obligatory in front of crowd appearance is really, REALLY short, and they cut away from him shaking hands with ringsiders to a Kevin Steen promo backstage, which in turn leads straight into...

 

Eddie Edwards vs Kevin Steen - This Anything Goes match is supposedly started by Steen jumping Edwards in the back, but the editing before they emerge into the arena itself is jumpy at best. They start in the crowd, up and down the tiered seating of what is a pretty big venue, and all around ringside. Of course, unlike Generico in his FCS they are going at each other full on here, and that backfires on Edwards when his tope is met by a Steen chairshot and he breaks his elbow just 24 hours before Ladder War II. That doesn't stop them from finishing the match and keeping up the intensity, though Edwards is obviously limited in what he can do. Insanely, he still goes through with the planned finish as Steen nails a package piledriver on a platform of four chairs for the victory after 14 minutes. Crazy.

 

Dark City Fight Club vs Alex Payne & Bobby Dempsey - This must be the post intermission match. Sandwiched between promos for the ROH store and the ROH academy, and with a standard way below everything else so far, it feels like a match from a completely different show. DCFC beat up on 'Sugarfoot' for five minutes or so, he hits a really crappy headscissors to allow an unlikely hot tag, then Dempsey throws his weight around for thirty seconds or so before tagging Payne back in. That's a move so stupid even Chris Hero on commentary points it out, and he walks into the DCFC's finisher at 6:42. Back to the good stuff, please...

 

Nigel McGuinness vs Roderick Strong - I remember in the build up to this series of shows, Strong was one of the only opponents the ROH forums really wanted Nigel to face. Chris Hero refers to them having had a World Title match at the Driven PPV, but I don't remember it really. Anyway, not only did the forum get their wish, but the match delivers. It's probably Nigel's best match since his title loss in fact, mostly because he seems fully motivated to produce the goods. There aren't any lariats, but by this point he's settled back into not using them, tieing Strong up with chain wrestling in the early going and working the arm towards the London Dungeon in more interesting fashion than usual. In between that, Strong uses Nigel as a chopping bag and is able to make good comebacks with his explosive dropkicks. Roderick picks up the unsurprising victory after the flying big boot and two Gibson Drivers at 16:46. Nigel puts over ROH afterwards.

 

Austin Aries & Rhett Titus vs Colt Cabana & Kenny Omega - It's all about the comedy here, as Cabana and Omega combine to make fools of the World Champion and his, um, thrusting protege for the most part. It's always good to have Omega in anyway, and he freshens up the usual Cabana routine with some added athleticism. The World Champ gets his revenge in the end, nailing a low kick on Cabana when he had Titus in the Billy Goats Curse, then nailing a kick to the head allowing Titus to roll on top for the pin at 13:27. A solid match, but booking the World Champion to look foolish doesn't do much for me.

 

Before the main event, we get confirmation of Eddie Edwards' fractured elbow, complete with several replays of him landing on it when his dive was interrupted by chair earlier. Hero speculates as to what will happen to the Ladder War the next night.

 

Bryan Danielson vs Davey Richards - I liked the way they showed several clips of Davey warming up to build him up ahead of this main event. Shame the camera used for it seems grainy compared to the others in use. Now, the main problem with this one is it's just too long at 36:07, of which the first fifteen minutes were just kinda there. There's only so much of Davey mugging at he crowd that one match can take. The final twenty minutes or so are well up to standard, but overall this feels like a cracking 25 minute match just trying to get out, and be more like the SHINGO match from DGUSA. Like said match, at the end of things it's Davey's Shooting Star Press followed by the Kimura that gets him a submission victory. However, in spite of the extra length, I'd say it's the DGUSA match that felt more epic. Davey puts over Danielson and ROH after the match, leaving Danielson to say goodbye after.

 

Overall, this is a cracking show by ROH 2009 standards, but the slight let down of a main event has to be considered disappointing. DVD run time is 2 hours, 48 minutes. The bonus section doesn't work on my PS3, so I can't tell you if there's any bonus matches on there.