jimufctna24 Posted February 12 Posted February 12 (edited) From memory, this was the UFC's Heavyweight division in 2005: Arlovski Sylvia Paul Buentello Justin Eilers Kevin Jordan Tra Telligmam (who was 40 and not fought in over 2 years) Gonzaga (who was woeful at the time) Mike Kyle James Irvin (a blown up light heavyweight) Branden Lee Hinkle (who used to retire to his car and smoke cigarettes after fights) Sean Gannon (famous for beating Kimbo Slice in a fight filmed for the internet, completely out of his depth) Note: Mir was sidelined due to injury, and the likes of Monson, Herring, Cruz, Kongo, etc, all didn't debut until 2006. If today's UFC Heavyweight division is anywhere near as shit as the above then fucking hell.  Edited February 12 by jimufctna24 Quote
Dai Posted February 12 Posted February 12 (edited) Theres some decent fighters in the Top 10. especially the Top 5, but I think the scary thing is it isnt THAT much better than your list, and thats with 20 years of progress and 20 years of the sport becoming mainstream. Similar to the womens divisions, where they seemingly havent progressed, and a case to be made theyve regressed in the last 10 years. Edited February 12 by Dai Quote
jimufctna24 Posted February 12 Posted February 12 I will add that the 2005 division had the excuse that it didn't possess most of the world's best heavyweight fighters at the tine (Fedor, Cro Cop, Nog, etc), due to the UFC's lack of resources at the time. Heck, the UFC couldn't even hold onto Rizzo and Ricco, and buried their final contracted UFC fight on the prelims because they knew they were leaving. Today's UFC has the resources to attract the likes of Ngannou and Nemkov, but for various reasons they haven't done so. Still, even if they had them on those pair on their books, the lack of depth is still pretty grim. Quote
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted February 12 Paid Members Posted February 12 Almeida has been released from the promotion. Quote
Paid Members wandshogun09 Posted February 12 Author Paid Members Posted February 12 (edited) 15 hours ago, jimufctna24 said: If today's UFC Heavyweight division is anywhere near as shit as the above then fucking hell. To be fair, I was talking about the state of the Heavyweight division as a whole, sport-wide not just the UFC. And it’s no bold claim to say that the division back in the mid 2000s was much healthier than the dross we’ve got now. Even allowing for current names outside the UFC like Ngannou and Nemkov, the lack of depth right now is unbelievable compared to 20 years ago. But even if we are just talking UFC’s Heavyweight division, this is today’s crop… Look at that shower of shite. It’s not quite as bad as the Gan McGee/Justin Eilers days but I really don’t think it’s far off. My original point was that the Heavyweight division as it is today has to be the worst shape the division has been in since then, and I wholeheartedly stand by that. I can’t think of a period in the last 20 years when Heavyweight has been this bad. And the worst thing is, there’s no sign of things getting better. No light at the end of the tunnel. Where are the next wave of Heavyweight prospects gonna come from? It’s actually sad to see. For us old bastards who were around during the Fedor, Nog, Cro Cop era and even later with the Cain, JDS, Carwin era, seeing what Heavyweight has become now is depressing. 3 hours ago, Egg Shen said: Almeida has been released from the promotion. As awful as his last couple of performances have been, I don’t know how to feel about this. I can’t lie and pretend I’ll miss watching his fights but, to my points above, the Heavyweight division really isn’t in a position to be getting rid of fighters right now. It’s gonna end up like women’s Featherweight at this rate where there’s only five fighters in the weight class and if you’re in the division, you’re Top 5 in the rankings by default just because there’s no cunt there. Edited February 12 by wandshogun09 Quote
Paid Members Carbomb Posted February 12 Paid Members Posted February 12 I'm hoping Valter Walker can put a run together. He's only got one loss, and I'd say he's more than made up for it with four heel hook wins in a row. Hoping the poor performance against Brzeski was just Octagon jitters. That top five isn't too bad - Aspinall, Gane, Pavlovich, and Blaydes. Only one who's a bit iffy is Volkov really. And they're all comparatively fun to watch. Just dreading Salsa Boy getting in there. And I really don't want to see that cunt Hokit get any further either. Right now, there are a few outside guys worth signing: Ngannou, Nemkov, Malykhin, and Reug Reug (though, obviously, those last two aren't leaving One any time soon). Quote
jimufctna24 Posted February 12 Posted February 12 19 minutes ago, wandshogun09 said: But even if we are just talking UFC’s Heavyweight division, this is today’s crop… You will have watched those fighters more than I have, but from what I have seen/read. The top two are good fighters, although Gane isn't an ATG HW, and Aspinall has some way to go to prove he is. Ranked 3-5 are okay fighters, whereas below 5 are pretty pish. So aye, a shower of shite.  38 minutes ago, wandshogun09 said: And it’s no bold claim to say that the division back in the mid 2000s was much healthier than the dross we’ve got now. Even allowing for current names outside the UFC like Ngannou and Nemkov, the lack of depth right now is unbelievable compared to 20 years ago. It's even worse when you consider how Fedor was considered compared to the rest of the sport in the mid-2000s. He was considered to be not only the best heavyweight, but a contender for the best and greatest overall fighter in the sport, by virtue of the quality of opponents he beat and the skill he showed while beating them. It's impossible to even imagine anyone making those sort of claims about one of today's heavyweights. Quote
Paid Members wandshogun09 Posted February 12 Author Paid Members Posted February 12 While we’re crapping over modern Heavyweight, this from Luke Thomas following the Kuniev vs Almeida mess is worth a watch… Goes into some interesting stats as well comparing Heavyweight today to Heavyweight in 2012. He picked 2012 to illustrate his point and that, while that wasn’t considered a particularly huge year for the division at the time, and it certainly wasn’t peak Heavyweight, it’s still vastly superior to what we’ve got now. Found it very interesting when he gets to the point of how many Heavyweight fights were on main cards back then as opposed to today where the bulk seems to be rendered to the prelims. The UFC know full well how bad the division has become, which is why they bury a lot of it lower down the card or on Fight Nights watched by 12 people and a dog. Quote
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted February 12 Paid Members Posted February 12 As poor as the quality was in those Early-mid 00's, the fights were usually fun to watch. I always looked forward to a heavyweight fight, these days you just kind of know they are going to suck before they start. Quote
jimufctna24 Posted February 12 Posted February 12 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Egg Shen said: As poor as the quality was in those Early-mid 00's, the fights were usually fun to watch. I always looked forward to a heavyweight fight, these days you just kind of know they are going to suck before they start. From memory, the vast majority of the UFC heavyweight fights in 2004 and 2005 ended quite quickly, with exceptions such as Gonzaga vs Jordan (which remains one of the worst fights I have ever seen) You didn't get many 15-25 minute "war of attritions" until Sylvia's 2006 reign of terror. the Monson/Cruz snoozefest, etc. Btw, I missed out Brandon Vera and Fabiano Scherner out of my list of 2005 UFC Heavyweights. I incorrectly recalled that those pair had debuted in 2006, rather than October of 2005 (where they fought on a fight night card).  Edited February 12 by jimufctna24 Quote
Dai Posted February 12 Posted February 12 What is the solution to this issue? In the eyes of the UFC, is there even an issue? Surely named heavyweight title fights are still considered the 'blockbuster' fights? But are they happy to have no blockbuster fights and just have the odd decent heavyweight fight where they are not paying mega money? Maybe people like big Francis have actually soured the UFC on actually wanting big name fighters wanting big money? Would a compromise solution be to introduce a 225 division? I know Dana has always said he won't do it, but an extra title could be a bonus for them. Quote
Kfogg1991 Posted February 12 Posted February 12 I can't say I'm actually shocked at them releasing Almeda he's been in two back to back abysmal fights with last weekend being a fight night apex card the first on paramount and just choosing not to fight and stay against the cage then have the ordacity to do the point in the centre then proceed to do nothing firing him might be slightly drastic especially when hes just signed a new contract before this last fight however they could easily have concluded he isn't worth the money and moving divisions won't change his performance so he's gone. I heard a stat on the Ariel podcast that half the entire heavyweight division are currently on losing streaks, this division is diabolical they need to do something to turn it around or scrap it entirely and maybe bring in a new replacement I'm really not sure how to do that with heavyweight but it's the worst and most broken by far it needs something. Â Quote
jimufctna24 Posted February 12 Posted February 12 (edited) In response to Dai's post. Merge Heavyweight and Light-Heavyweight into a single division is one idea. Essentially, a division that is free to enter for blokes between 205lbs and 265lbs. Given the success that notable light heavyweights had moving up in the past Couture (2007: when he was 43/44), Cormier (2018: with a bad back and nearly 40). Jones (2023: well past his best and coming off a 3 year layoff), it's very possible that the light heavyweights would be very competitive in unified division, especially since the current crop of UFC heavyweights are so poor. And also since Ngannou, who would probably be the heavyweight who would prove too physically imposing for the light heavyweights, is currently AWOL. Another would be for the UFC/TKO to loosen their purse strings and sign up Ngannou (which would also involve putting ego aside somewhat), Nemkov, and any other semi-decent heavyweight outside the UFC (in the hope a few come good). I can imagine neither are likely to happen. Edited February 12 by jimufctna24 Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.