UFC 317: Topuria vs Oliveira - Jun 28 ??

[Carbomb]

We were talking a couple of months ago about Volkanovski being the only one close, with a win over Aldo, then two in a row over Max. 

[wandshogun09]

18 hours ago, Bruce85 said:

Is knocking out Volk, Max, and Charles the best run of consecutive KOs ever? Can’t remember any other fighter having a 3 fight run as good as that. Others have overall resumes that are better than Topuria but those 3 in a row is some doing. 

I think so yeah. I’d been saying before Saturday that I thought Topuria sparking Volk and Holloway in consecutive fights was probably the greatest two back-to-back wins in MMA history. Now adding Charles to that, up in weight and again by knockout, I think it’s the best three fight stretch of wins any fighter has pulled off, and fairly comfortably.

Edited July 1, 2025 by wandshogun09

[jimufctna24]

Khabib's final three wins warrant a mention. McGregor, then Poirier, then Gaethje.

I'd still lean towards Topuria's recent streak being superior though.

 

[Dai]

10 minutes ago, jimufctna24 said:

Khabib's final three wins warrant a mention. McGregor, then Poirier, then Gaethje.

I'd still lean towards Topuria's recent streak being superior though.

 

KOs was mentioned though, so doesn't count in this debate. When we open it up to best wins then this would definitely be in with a shout. 

 

I've checked for the KOs though and looked through the likes of Fedor. Rampage, Wandy, Aspinal, Bones, Gaethje, Chuck, Cro Cop, Reem and can't find any 3 in a row that are as good. 

Edited July 1, 2025 by Dai

[wandshogun09]

The three Khabib wins there are great and he finished all three. But if we’re comparing those wins head-to-head with Topuria’s then Topuria definitely beats that run for me. As impressive as the Khabib wins were, Poirier and Gaethje were never undisputed champs, all three of Topuria’s wins were. And not only that, Volk and Holloway are considered two of the absolute greatest Featherweights ever. If there was a Mount Rushmore of Featherweight MMA, both Volk and Max would be on it. Then you add in Topuria ended Volk’s title reign and was the first man to knock Holloway out. Then on top of all that, the Oliveira win was up a division. Khabib beat and submitted three of the best Lightweights of his generation but Topuria’s wins were just as decisive but over slightly better opposition overall (in my opinion) and included going up in weight to KO Charles.

It’s an insane run of wins, it really is. Imagine he somehow fights Makhachev next and beats him as well? The debate is a wrap at that point. 

[Bruce85]

1 hour ago, wandshogun09 said:It’s an insane run of wins, it really is. Imagine he somehow fights Makhachev next and beats him as well? The debate is a wrap at that point. 

Say he fights Paddy next, wins that one. Then goes up again and beats Makhachev (assuming he’s champ) for the Welterweight belt. He then defends it against whoever and retires at 30 with a 20-0 record and a 3 weight champion, that’s job done and the GOAT debate ended haha. 

[Egg Shen]

I think thats the plan too, Topuria is all about the legacy.

[Dai]

12 hours ago, Bruce85 said:

Say he fights Paddy next, wins that one. Then goes up again and beats Makhachev (assuming he’s champ) for the Welterweight belt. He then defends it against whoever and retires at 30 with a 20-0 record and a 3 weight champion, that’s job done and the GOAT debate ended haha. 

Hmm, would it though? Surely longevity plays a big part in the GOAT discussion, which if he does that and does indeed retire, then that removes a key aspect when talking about the GOAT status. Its the only thing that stops Khabib currently being the GOAT right now, and the key factor in why most still rank GSP above him. 

[Egg Shen]

I see what you mean, but a 3 weight World Champion retiring undefeated is going to be pretty hard to deny.

[jimufctna24]

It all depends on whether you value peak wins or depth.

GSP saw off three cycles of Welterweight contenders over an 8 year span or so. Starting with Penn/Hughes/Trigg/Karo, then Alves/Fitch/Koscheck/Sheilds, then finally Condit/Diaz/Hendricks (I'm aware he was lucky to get the decision win over Hendricks). That's insane levels of resume depth and longevity.

But would GSP's 4 best wins, which are probably some combination of 08 Fitch, 09 Penn, 09 Alves and someone else, be equal to Topuria's recent 3 wins and Makhachev? Not quite in my opinion. 

So a decent case could be made for both in the scenario Topuria beats Makhachev. I personally would probably lean towards Topuria, but I would suggest that Topuria moving up to 170lbs would perhaps be a bridge too far even for him, especially if Makhachev looks good at that weight. 

 

[Carbomb]

He may want to continue longer, just to completely cement his status. He recently defended Jon Jones as the GOAT, so theoretically he has a standard in his mind as to what being the GOAT is. Right now, if Jones is his benchmark, he's not yet near it, and retiring undefeated at 20-0, even with a three-weight championship career, might not be enough for him. 

As regards longevity, I just checked his record, and he's been active for almost as long as Jones was before he pissed around at HW! Jones debuted 2008, his third-last match was in 2020 against Reyes, his last at LHW. Topuria debuted in 2015, and he's been active ever since. Jones debuted in the UFC at 7-0, Topuria at 9-0. 

Just saw something that I didn't know, which you guys probably did, and I can see why this would contribute to Jones' case for being the GOAT: all of Jones' seven wins that culminated in his winning debut in the UFC were in five fucking months in 2008! I don't know what it must have been like as a fan watching at the time, but it must have seemed like he virtually came out of nowhere. His first three matches were all the April of that year. Then he fought three times in 2009, and four times in 2011. Bloody hell. Finding this out makes me hate him even more - he should have been so much better than he was.

But whilst Topuria can't beat that debut run, he has a chance of equalling Jones if he keeps up his current form and frequency in fighting.

[jimufctna24]

I will assume the high quantity of fights Jones participated in during his early days in MMA were due to. 1) Money, as fighting semi-regular outside the UFC at the time probably didn't pay much for a prospect 2) Not taking much damage in said bouts, thus being ready to fight again immediately. 3) A desperate need to gain experience and exposure in order to secure a UFC deal (and with it the opportunity to make serious money)

It wasn't that long before 2008 that even established fighters would fight very regularly, occasionally show up in random events in different continents, or even compete in underground events, simply to bank a pay cheque. For example, Paulo Filho and Dave Loiseau fought on a UK show in mid-2005, which doesn't show up on their Sherdog records (obviously the camera phone and the sport's growing popularity soon made such undocumented fights a thing of the past). 

Had Jones maintained such a schedule in the UFC, he would have probably burned out far quicker. Fighting 18 times over a 3 year span was probably one of the reasons why Cro Cop declined after 2006.

Edited July 2, 2025 by jimufctna24

[Egg Shen]

1 hour ago, Carbomb said:

all of Jones' seven wins that culminated in his winning debut in the UFC were in five fucking months in 2008! I don't know what it must have been like as a fan watching at the time, but it must have seemed like he virtually came out of nowhere. His first three matches were all the April of that year. Then he fought three times in 2009, and four times in 2011. Bloody hell. Finding this out makes me hate him even more - he should have been so much better than he was.

 

Jones was loved at the time, and him becoming Champion felt inevitable. I never remember there being a backlash against him as he was knocking off the most beloved fighters in the sport one by one, itjust felt a natural changing of the guard, and Jones at the time seemed a humble and respectful guy. Everything just fell into place perfectly for him. 

I

[Carbomb]

3 hours ago, Egg Shen said:

Jones was loved at the time, and him becoming Champion felt inevitable. I never remember there being a backlash against him as he was knocking off the most beloved fighters in the sport one by one, itjust felt a natural changing of the guard, and Jones at the time seemed a humble and respectful guy. Everything just fell into place perfectly for him. 

I

Yeh, I do remember all the stuff about the mask finally slipping for the feud with Cormier. Though someone on here said they didn't like him prior to that, that he came across as smarmy and slimy. Can't remember who though.

[wandshogun09]

17 minutes ago, Carbomb said:

Yeh, I do remember all the stuff about the mask finally slipping for the feud with Cormier. Though someone on here said they didn't like him prior to that, that he came across as smarmy and slimy. Can't remember who though.

Probably me. I rarely rooted for him early on just because he was fighting guys I liked more. But I never properly started disliking him until, I think, around the time of the whole fallout with Rashad Evans. Some of it was on Greg Jackson and Mike Winkeljohn because when Jones publicly said he’d fight Rashad despite being teammates, it became clear they weren’t gonna be able to co-exist at Jackson’s. One would have to go. And Jackson and Wink basically paid back Rashad’s loyalty (he’d been there since pretty much day dot) by pretty much saying ‘Yeah, cheers for that but we’re going with this guy now. See yourself out.’ But I remember souring on Jones himself big time around that time as well. The smarminess was becoming more apparent by then. The Cormier rivalry is where it went into overdrive though yeah. The mask didn’t just slip, it was ripped right off, especially during that clip of them trading shit talk back and forth with Jones thinking they were off the air and you heard the real him. “Hey pussy are you still there?” And literally talking about “killing” DC.

Back on this Topuria subject and the ‘greatest three fight win streak’ thing - there’s been a bunch of good posts made and I know the conversation has kind of strayed into GOAT talk when you start bringing up overall records and stuff and longevity. But the original point was that Topuria may have just accomplished the best ever three win stretch in MMA history. Someone like GSP had a better overall body of work but I don’t think you can find any three consecutive wins on his record that equal or surpass Topuria’s knockouts of Volk, Max and Charles. He did that shit in a row. Thinking about it, the only fighter who might challenge it is actually Jon Jones himself. His four fight stretch in 2011 was pretty fucking special. Finished unbeaten Bader, wrecked Shogun to win the title and then subbed Rampage and Machida to close out the year. Even then, I still don’t think it beats Topuria’s last three but it might be the closest.