UFC 317: Topuria vs Oliveira - Jun 28 ??

[Egg Shen]

If you are so much over I think its instant cancellation. McVey took the fight on 4 days notice but to miss by 10lb is crazy. Im fairly certain you'd have to prove to the UFC how heavy you are when you agree at such late notice so who knows why he missed so badly.

[Egg Shen]

You wouldn't wanna piss this lot off on a night out would you?

 

[wandshogun09]

Fight day.

[Bruce85]

Pumped for this one, no way this card can be a dud, right?! 
 

 

[Egg Shen]

Not a chance, main card is full of crowd pleasers. 

Lets hope we haven't cursed it.

[wandshogun09]

Yeah main card’s a home run. Even the prelims could be fun as well. It’s only Araujo vs Cortez and Diniz vs Hines I’m not arsed about. Hermansson vs Robocop should be entertaining enough, McKinney vs Slav sounds like complete mayhem, Hyder Amil is an all action fighter who’s exciting enough he actually dragged a great fight out of William Gomis last time out and Jacobe Smith in the Fight Pass opener looks like a real prospect. Seriously, out of 11 fights on the card, I’m genuinely into 9 of them. 

Edited June 28, 2025 by wandshogun09

[Dai]

Rooting hard for Charles in this one. Just like Wand said in his preview, hes been a favourate for so many years, so would love to see him get the win here. Thinking about it, if you were to ask every MMA fan from the the timeframe to name their top 5 favourate fighters from 2015-2025, then surely Charles makes the cut on pretty much everyones list. Cant remember Topuria ever really being called a huge guy for the division, so am hoping Charles has the weight advantage to equal out the many miles he has on his body clock. 

[wandshogun09]

This’ll be a long read. Lots to talk about. What a card. As disillusioned as I’ve become with the UFC over the last year or so, shows like this are why I’ll never just completely switch off. Every now and then, a card like this will come along and remind you why you love this shit. It’s a shame they’re becoming rarer and rarer but on the bright side, there’s some good stuff coming in July and August. This was some card though.

If for some reason you were still in doubt, Ilia Topuria proved once again that he’s the real deal. The headlines he’s been making for being one of the pound-for-pound best fighters in the sport are not hyperbole or propaganda. He’s actually that fucking good.

I love Charles, we all do, it was sad to see him get flattened like that. But while there were questions on Topuria going up in weight, this always felt like the more likely outcome to me. Oliveira was always gonna be a threat. He’s dangerous as fuck. But he’s also always been very hittable and vulnerable. It’s part of what’s made him so exciting to watch, that edge of the seat factor you get watching his fights has always been there. Even in his biggest wins like that three fight stretch where he stopped Chandler, Gaethje and Poirier, he got hurt badly in all those fights before rallying back. I felt like his willingness to take one to land one was probably gonna be his undoing here. Topuria’s just too sharp and too accurate to be playing that game with. What’s scary as well is, Topuria’s power has clearly carried up to 155. We saw him knock out Jai Herbert at 155 a few years ago but the jury was out for me until we saw him in with a genuine top Lightweight. Well, we got our answer. Oliveira’s been prone to getting tagged before but, even still, he’s never quite been put out like that before. And the guy who finally did it was a Featherweight moving up! Impressive. He did fine the short time he was on the ground with Oliveira as well. 

I’m not sure what Topuria’s game is, he’s speed running his career like he’s not planning to stick around too long. Maybe I’m wrong but that’s the feeling I get for some reason. He’s only 28 but I feel like he might be one of those fighters who retires young and leaves us wanting more. I’m sure I read that he was already wealthy before he got into MMA and with how big a star he’s becoming in Spain and Georgia it’s probably just a matter of time before he’s being offered opportunities back home that are both easier and more lucrative than getting punched and kicked and cutting weight. I could be barking up the wrong tree completely but enjoy him while he’s here. He’s got his haters but MMA would be much poorer if he walked away. Imagine the UFC without him over the last year? He’s one of the only good things they’ve got going for them now.

We talked about it earlier in the thread and when I saw Paddy’s big fat face and his floppy Harry from Dumb and Dumber hair in the cage, I thought ‘Well, fuck. They’re actually doing it’. But no. Dana’s already kind of shot it down. Apparently that face-off wasn’t meant to happen. Regardless, I never thought Paddy would get to the point where he’d actually be facing off with and building a fight with the UFC champ at the end of a big PPV, I thought he’d get exposed by someone before he got there, but here we are. It was a fun little confrontation and they’ve definitely got something with Topuria and Paddy that has been missing from the UFC for a few years. I don’t think they legitimately hate each other anywhere near as much as they’re saying they do but it feels like an actual rivalry that could grow legs if the UFC actually water the seeds a bit. I saw Paddy mention recently that they could even do a tour of press conferences like they did for Aldo vs McGregor years ago. That seems a bit much and this is nowhere near the monster that fight was. But would it kill the UFC to at least try to do something like that? To at least attempt to make it feel big and special? Why not? They won’t though. Dana was telling the media after the show “I’m pissed, I don’t know who let Paddy in there” and he even started saying something like “that’s not the fight…” but then cut himself short. What’s he got against fun moments and building big fights these days? He’s also said that Tsarukyan isn’t next for Topuria, despite him making weight as the official backup this weekend. And he basically said Gaethje should retire when he was asked about Gaethje recently saying it’s a title shot or retirement for him. So if it’s not Topuria vs Pimblett and it’s not Topuria vs Tsarukyan and it’s not Topuria vs Gaethje, what the fuck is it? What’s next? Makhachev’s up at 170 now. Are they just gonna wait, see if Makhachev loses to Maddalena and then try to get him to come back down to 155 to fight Topuria? Are they actually gonna let Topuria move up to 170 to chase Makhachev? Which would then leave 155 without a champion again. What are they playing at?

I never thought I’d be saying it but just do Topuria vs Paddy. Get it done. They’ve got history and while Paddy’s only been beating older and beat up (and in Ferguson’s case completely knackered) opponents, they can spin it into a title shot just based off interview clips, the footage of Paddy lobbing hand sanitizer at him that time and a couple of slick promo videos. Job done. Sod it, book it before Paddy loses to someone else. It’s one of the only big fights they’ve got at this point and Dana’s pouring cold water on it? Plus, I wanna see Topuria wallop him. It’s been brewing since 2022 or something. If they don’t make the fight now it’ll probably never happen because Topuria’s already at the elite level and Paddy’s probably already maxed out his potential. He’s gonna lose to someone else anyway if he keeps floating around that Top 5. Better to let Topuria hand him that loss than waste it on a Gamrot or someone. Topuria vs Tsarukyan would be a way more interesting actual fight and obviously Topuria vs Makhachev would be mega. Goes without saying. But I kind of feel like it’s now or never for that Paddy fight. Strike while the iron’s hot.

Pantoja is a little beast isn’t he? As we got into fight week, I saw more and more people predicting a title change and a lot of talk that Kai Kara-France was some other worldly power puncher. He’s definitely got power, especially for a Flyweight, but I think a bit too much stock was being put into that Erceg KO last time going into this fight. It was an impressive finish but doing that to Erceg doesn’t mean you’re gonna do the same to a granite chinned mini terminator like Pantoja. I wasn’t completely counting out KKF but I always felt like Pantoja was just better and would likely find a way to come out on top.

Cold as ice. If Pantoja gets hold of your neck, you’re done. With this win, Pantoja broke the record for most wins at Flyweight, most finishes at Flyweight and most submissions at Flyweight. Those records were all shared with Mighty Mouse, Figgy and Benavidez before last night. Pantoja’s taking necks and making history all over the shop.

I’m not sure there’s a man walking the planet who weighs 125lbs that can beat Pantoja in his current form. It’s not gonna last forever and, at 35, it’s not likely gonna last too much longer. But right now, there’s not a currently active Flyweight in the world who I’d actually pick to beat him. It’s a shame Demetrious Johnson is both retired and contractually unavailable because he’s about the only one I’d probably favour. Sadly it’ll never happen. One that got away. Another fight that’s not gonna happen is Pantoja moving up to 135 to fight Merab. There’s been a fair bit of talk about that but Pantoja’s flat out said he’s not into it and he wants stay at Flyweight. Seen a few divs saying he’s “ducking” Merab but there’s nothing wrong with recognising what your weight class is and staying there. Just because you’re a UFC champion that doesn’t mean you’re then obligated to fight the champ a weight class higher. Other champs constantly division hopping has created that expectation of all champions but I actually think it’s refreshing to at least have one champ who’s happy to stay in their lane and just defend the title against all comers in their division. What a crazy concept! It’s nothing like the Jones-Aspinall mess. Pantoja’s been clear from the off that he’s focused on staying put at 125. We know what’s next for Pantoja now anyway…

Joshua Van going for the title this early in his career is not what I expected but this was a huge win for him. Him and Royval went out and had an absolute dogfight. Just like 2024, this year has been really short on genuine FOTY contenders. Now we’ve had two on consecutive weekends. That Sadykhov vs Motta fight on the Baku card last week was nuts. Here we are a week later and Van vs Royval was even better.

Brilliant fight. I’ve probably been the biggest Van cheerleader on here since almost his UFC debut. I’ve been highlighting his fights and bigging him up every time he fights. But as much as I expected a really exciting fight (it was my ‘one to watch’ for good reason), I did think this might be a step too far for Van. He’s been steadily improving but the combination of Royval being the #1 ranked guy at Flyweight and a big step up, plus Van taking the fight on short notice, I had a feeling he might be biting off more than he could chew. But he rose to the occasion big time here. Against his toughest opponent yet, he put in his best performance.

Pantoja vs Van is gonna be a lot of fun. I do think it’s coming a year or two too soon for Van. I don’t think he’s ready for Pantoja. But who the fuck knows? At the very least, it’s another fresh fight for Pantoja and it’s a completely new face in the title picture. If it is too soon for Van, at 23 he’s young enough to come back from the loss. The opportunity is worth it. If he wins though, it will be massive for him. And let’s face it, Pantoja isn’t getting any younger. He’s not showing any signs of slowing down yet but nobody outruns Father Time forever. I’m still gonna favour Pantoja but I’m looking forward to watching that fight. Oh and if you wanna feel old, I saw a stat this morning that Van is set to become the first fighter born in the 2000s to challenge for UFC gold! We’re officially ancient.

Was happy to see Beneil Dariush get the win over Moicano. He badly needed it after those back-to-back first round losses to Tsarukyan and Oliveira and then the layoff. It’s been a shite couple of years for him. Quite enjoyed the fight as well. Wasn’t amazing or anything and they both faded a bit as it went on but it was decent enough. Moicano’s schtick just saying “motherfucker” all the time and talking about political shit in his post-fight interviews got old for me a while ago as well so I was glad he lost and we were spared that. Not a clue where Dariush goes from here though. He’s 36 now, no spring chicken but he’s actually younger than I thought. But I just don’t know what’s left for him. At this point it’s clear he’s not beating the very top guys in the 155 division, so he’s basically gonna just stagnate at this same level or he’s gonna step up and get twatted again. He’s not gonna be improving at 36. This is as good as he’s getting and it’s all downhill from here. I’d say Dariush vs Chandler makes sense, and I do think it does, but you know Chandler will think he’s above that and he probably still feels like he’s in line for a title shot.

Payton Talbott bounced back nicely against Felipe Lima in the PPV opener. Whenever an unbeaten prospect loses for the first time, there are always questions on if they’ll be able to recover and rebound from that first defeat. Talbott responded well. And it wasn’t like they set him up with a gimme. I thought they might scale him back after that loss to Barcelos last time out. Kind of like they did when O’Malley lost to Chito Vera in their first fight, they built O’Malley back up with a few tune-ups. None of that with Talbott. Lima is legit and had looked like a very solid prospect himself in his few previous fights. I actually favoured Lima to win this but Talbott got it done and this was probably his best win to date for me. Really fun fight as well.

Mixed feelings on the Robocop Rodrigues fight. On the one hand, I’ve always liked him so I was happy to see him get back to winning ways after that loss to Cannonier last time. But I quite like Hermansson as well and, Christ, seeing him brutally switched off like that was rough to watch…

That follow up hammerfist was totally unnecessary as well. Hermansson was clearly already out cold. I pretty much always put the bulk of the blame on the ref for stuff like that, it’s their job to be in the right place and have the cage awareness to get in there quick and save the fighter from further damage. And once again, Herb Dean was woefully out of position. So that’s on him. This thing the likes of Rogan trot out about him being “the gold standard” of MMA reffing can eat a dick. He’s had too many of these blunders over the years now. But I’ve gotta say, I didn’t like this from Rodrigues either. Herb absolutely should’ve got in there quicker but Robocop had more than enough time to pull that last shot. I get you’re supposed to wait for the ref to physically step in, so he didn’t technically do anything wrong, but I don’t know. It was clear as day Hermansson was already gone. Maybe try not to, you know, murder him in cold blood on national television?

Jose Delgado! Fuck. There was me bigging up Hyder Amil in the opening post and again yesterday, then he gets obliterated in 26 seconds by Delgado.

Amil popped up quick but he was done. Legs all over the place, could barely stand, thousand yard stare, the lot. In my defence I did say this in the opening post…

On 6/3/2025 at 7:55 PM, wandshogun09 said:

Amil’s been a lot of fun so far though. He’s undefeated at 11-0 but he’s also 35 years old. My expectations aren’t particularly high and he’s been fighting with such a wild style at times that I can see him getting derailed badly soon. 

…I don’t see him keeping his unbeaten record much longer…

I feel like I’ve been saying similar before and after his last few fights. He just always seemed like one of those fighters who was eventually gonna run into something nasty. It was always kind of on the cards to happen. As fun as he is to watch, he does get reckless and over-aggressive. What a way to suffer your first defeat though. I didn’t know a lot about Delgado going in but I’ll definitely be taking notice whenever he next fights.

Tracy Cortez fight wasn’t much good but I didn’t expect it to be. Only fight on the card I found myself skipping through a bit. Still don’t particularly rate Cortez. This was actually one of her better wins but even then Araujo is 38 and was in sketchy form coming in. This is probably about as high as Cortez goes in my opinion. I just don’t think she’s got enough about her overall game to go much further.

Man, Terrance McKinney is NEVER gonna see a judges scorecard in his life is he? As much as I like Slava Claus, subbing him is no great accomplishment because he’s got almost zero grappling. But McKinney still did it in style and got him out of there in under a minute.

Slav fought it as long as he could but with a fresh McKinney on his neck, squeezing with full strength, it was a wrap. McKinney doesn’t have the best win/loss ratio and he’s never gonna put a dent in the rankings in a division like Lightweight. But there’s never a dull moment with him. This was fight 24 in his career and, win or lose, he’s still never gone the distance and 20 of his 24 fights ended in the first round. Absolute madness.

Jacobe Smith got the job done, got the finish and remains undefeated but it was one of those performances that raised questions. He’s definitely got potential but I didn’t expect his gas tank to be flagging after just one round and that’s a bit of a red flag. Maybe it was down to adrenaline and the occasion, he’s still quite new and this was by far the biggest stage and biggest card he’s fought on so far. His UFC debut was at the Apex. Maybe it was a combination of that and him getting overexcited when he had Niko hurt and wasting energy. But it’s an issue he’s gonna have to address as he steps up in levels. It’s early days though and that’s what these fights are for at this stage of his career. Gaining experience and learning. Smith’s post-fight interview was cringey as fuck though with all the screaming Rogan’s name and stuff. 

Even the Jhonata Diniz vs Alvin Hines curtain jerker was pretty fun. Rare I enjoy a low level Heavyweight fight these days but this was quite enjoyable I thought. Wasn’t pretty technically but it was a decent scrap and Hines showed real grit and toughness and he was always trying. They weren’t just lazily plodding around trying to squeak out a lifeless split decision like so many Heavies do now. Fair play, actually will tune in to see Hines again. He feels like a bit of a throwback to a Heavyweight undercard fight in the Strikeforce days, and I like that. 



Yeah, overall a really fun card that. The best we’ve had in some time, I reckon. Don’t wanna put a negative spin on it but I’ve seen comments along the lines of ‘the UFC is BACK!!!’ on social media and stuff. It’s not though. Sad to say but it’s just not. Every now and then they’ll bust out a fantastic show like this. Cool. The next one is headlined by Derrick Lewis vs Tallison Teixeira though. These great cards used to be more regular, they’re few and far between now. Enjoy them as much as you can, whenever you can. This was a beauty though. The fights nearly all delivered, even some of the ones I didn’t expect much from, we had a legit FOTY contender in Van vs Royval, the two title fights ended decisively and Topuria came out of this one looking like the biggest star in the UFC. You know what else helped, no fucking Trump and his big tangerine gob all over the screen, and no incessant arse kissing in nearly every fighter’s post-fight interview as a result! Lovely stuff.

Edited June 29, 2025 by wandshogun09

[jimufctna24]

1 hour ago, wandshogun09 said:

I love Charles, we all do, it was sad to see him get flattened like that. But while there were questions on Topuria going up in weight, this always felt like the more likely outcome to me. Oliveira was always gonna be a threat. He’s dangerous as fuck. But he’s also always been very hittable and vulnerable. It’s part of what’s made him so exciting to watch, that edge of the seat factor you get watching his fights has always been there. Even in his biggest wins like that three fight stretch where he stopped Chandler, Gaethje and Poirier, he got hurt badly in all those fights before rallying back. I felt like his willingness to take one to land one was probably gonna be his undoing here. Topuria’s just too sharp and too accurate to be playing that game with. What’s scary as well is, Topuria’s power has clearly carried up to 155. We saw him knock out Jai Herbert at 155 a few years ago but the jury was out for me until we saw him in with a genuine top Lightweight. Well, we got our answer. Oliveira’s been prone to getting tagged before but, even still, he’s never quite been put out like that before. And the guy who finally did it was a Featherweight moving up! Impressive. He did fine the short time he was on the ground with Oliveira as well. 

I agree with all of this.

Oliveria had been stopped via strikes at 155lbs previously, but not for many years (Felder in 2017, Cerrone in 2011), and not from being knocked out cold while standing. Topuria clearly still has freakish power at lightweight. 

Quote

I’ve probably been the biggest Van cheerleader on here since almost his UFC debut. I’ve been highlighting his fights and bigging him up every time he fights

I'm yet to see any of Van's bouts, but Slack has been waving his knickers over him for a while too.

I intend to binge watch his fights at some point.

Edited June 29, 2025 by jimufctna24

[Egg Shen]

Excellent show. Having fights deliver and then immediatly set up what happens next is how it's done. Cracking stuff.

 

[Dai]

Echo all of what Wand said, was a cracking little main card.

 

Rogan was absolutley insufferable in the Payton fight, I thought. Old Joe had one of his classic trains of thought early on and just obsessed on it. Payton looked decent, but Joe was banging on constantly about how great he was, and it become very annoying.

 

The Pantoja sub was very odd, in that it didnt seem like he had to do much to get the RNC. To see it happen in a title fight so easy seemed a bit strange, as you see people defending these chokes for minutes at a time these days, especially in the leg triangle postion. KKF seemed to just lose concentration for a few seconds and it cost him.

 

I was initially hopeful for Charles, as he looked a fair bit bigger, but he got absolutley smoked (midway through Joe saying he was absorbing the shots much better than others). As cringe worthy as that post fight bit was with Paddy, it did actually make me want to watch the fight. As shit as the smack talk and push was, it did actually feel genuine at least, and as Wand says, thats more than enough to sell this fight. Lets be fair, Paddy has a decent bit of hype these days too, and it would be a great case of striking whilst the iron is hot. Reading what you said Dana said, I hope hes just in his promoters gimmick, and will book the Paddy fight "as the reaction and demand for it has been like nothing Ive ever seen before" or some other BS like that. You said that Dana has put the kill on the three fighters that the director (surely upon instruction from Dana or some other higher up) focussed on after the fight, which seems like hes talking out of his arse. 

[Bruce85]

Well that was a bit good wasn’t it! 
 

I really want the Topuria v Paddy fight next as I’m sick of Topuria knocking out my favourite fighters, that’s 3 in a row, let’s have him KO Paddy next. In all seriousness I don’t think Paddy deserves to get the next shot but I think you have to strike whilst the iron is hot and if you give Paddy another fighter the UFC might miss the boat on this one. 
 

The Pantoja and Van face off has got me really excited for that fight, Pantoja is on another level at the moment. I do wonder if this will be a step too soon for Van though, he proved that he can hang with the best in the division but the Pantoja looks a different animal in there. Should be a cracking fight though. 
 

The Hermansson KO was brutal and that follow up shot was so unnecessary! Herb should have been quicker but surely Robocop could see he was out cold. Given Hermanssons age and lack of activity recently you wouldn’t blame him if he called it a day after a knock out like that. 

[wandshogun09]

On 6/29/2025 at 9:20 PM, jimufctna24 said:

I'm yet to see any of Van's bouts, but Slack has been waving his knickers over him for a while too.

I intend to binge watch his fights at some point.

You won’t regret it. He’s not without flaws but he’s consistently fun to watch and he’s young enough that you can almost see his improvement from fight to fight. 

11 hours ago, Bruce85 said:

I really want the Topuria v Paddy fight next as I’m sick of Topuria knocking out my favourite fighters

Honestly, I think this is a major part of why Topuria has so many haters despite being awesome and pretty much the most exciting thing the UFC has at the moment. A lot of people seem to dislike him being ‘cocky’ but I think the fact he’s wrecking all our favourites is the big reason for any pushback he’s been getting. Volk, Max and Charles? In a row? That’s three of the most almost universally beloved and respected fighters in the game. And Topuria didn’t just beat them, he absolutely clobbered them into oblivion. 

[Bruce85]

Is knocking out Volk, Max, and Charles the best run of consecutive KOs ever? Can’t remember any other fighter having a 3 fight run as good as that. Others have overall resumes that are better than Topuria but those 3 in a row is some doing. 
 

I don’t get the hate for Topuria at all, he seems like a decent guy and I don’t even think he comes across as that cocky, when he’s on the run he is, he’s allowed to be a bit cocky imo. 

[Egg Shen]

17 hours ago, Bruce85 said:

Is knocking out Volk, Max, and Charles the best run of consecutive KOs ever? Can’t remember any other fighter having a 3 fight run as good as that. Others have overall resumes that are better than Topuria but those 3 in a row is some doing. 
 

It has to be. Anyone find a bettet one?

They have to pull the trigger on Topuria/Paddy. At a time when there is some disilluision with the promotion, that's the kind of casual/entertainment aimed fight they need be going with. Topuria being bang up for it helps.

The whole Pantoja/Van 125lb set up was refreshing too. They made a challenger and made the most interesting fight at the weight in ages.