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UFC Orlando: Thompson vs Holland - Dec 3 ??


wandshogun09

Who wins and how?   

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What’s this? A Fight Night but not at the Apex?! We’re off to Orlando, Florida and this is a fantastic card on paper.

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ESPN MAIN CARD
Wonderboy Thompson vs Kevin Holland 

Rafael Dos Anjos vs Bryan Barberena

Matheus Nicolau vs Matt Schnell

Tai Tuivasa vs Sergei Pavlovich 

Jack Hermansson vs Roman Dolidze 

Eryk Anders vs Kyle Daukaus 

ESPN+/FIGHT PASS PRELIMS
Niko Price vs Phil Rowe

Angela Hill vs Emily Ducote 

Clay Guida vs Scott Holtzman 

Michael Johnson vs Marc Diakiese 

Darren Elkins vs Jonathan Pearce 

Natan Levy vs Genaro Valdez 

Francis Marshall vs Marcelo Rojo 

Yazmin Jauregui vs Istela Nunes 

 

As far as I know, that’s the final bout order. Mostly looks about right other than I’d have fucked the Anders vs Daukaus fight off to the prelims and had something else as the main card opener. Baffled why Jauregui is jerking the curtain as well but whatever. I really like the look of the card as a whole. Only a couple of weeks away now as well. As always, I’ll update this post as and when the inevitable pullouts and bout order shuffles start. 

 

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Wonderboy Thompson vs Kevin Holland then. I’ll be honest, I’m really not sure what to make of this. I like both but this pairing, to me, does have a fairly high possibility of producing a bit of a dud. Wonderboy’s been known to end up in low output stalemates from time to time and Holland has been a bit hot and cold himself. I don’t know. I’m hoping for the best but these two together with 25 minutes to play with, it’s an interesting fight but one I can see not being particularly exciting to watch. Hope I’m wrong, obviously.

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Wonderboy might look like a school leaver but he’ll be 40 years old in February. And he’s got a fair few miles on him when you factor in his full martial arts career as a whole. His old man had him training at 3 years old and he’s been going ever since! By his teenage years he was competing in Karate and by about 16 he’d started a Kickboxing career which would ultimately lead to a 58-0 record by the time of his last fight in 2007. In 2010 he made his MMA debut and was signed by the UFC after just 5 fights. He’s had his ups and downs over the 12 years since but he’s had standout wins over the likes of Robert Whittaker, Jake Ellenberger, Johny Hendricks, Rory MacDonald, Jorge Masvidal, Vicente Luque and Geoff Neal. He’s been there or thereabouts in the mix and did challenge Tyron Woodley for the belt twice but he’s never quite made it over that last hurdle. He’s 16-6-1 now and coming off back-to-back decision losses against Gilbert Burns and Belal Muhammad. Watching him, it has kind of felt like the end is near but maybe those losses were more of a style thing. Belal’s a grinder and Burns went the grappling route a lot as well. This Holland fight should hopefully give us a better read on where Wonderboy’s at.

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I think it’s pretty safe to assume that Holland’s probably not gonna be looking to wrestle. He can certainly grapple a bit, I think his losses to Brunson and Vettori convinced people he had zero ground game but I’m not with that. He’s trained under Travis Lutter for years, he’s definitely got a clue when it comes to BJJ. Wrestling is clearly his weakest area though. We last saw him getting steamrolled by Khamzat Chimaev in about 2 minutes at UFC 279 in September. That was always a terrible style matchup for him but the circumstances surrounding that whole shitshow of a fight week didn’t help matters at all. Holland was all set to fight Daniel Rodriguez right up until 24 hours before the show. Then Chimaev ballsed everything up on weigh in day. Holland seemed to retire on social media shortly after that loss but then this fight with Wonderboy got announced out of nowhere so he was obviously just fucking about.

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So yeah. It’s a bit of a funny one this. Just not sure how they’ll match up stylistically. Holland’s issues in the past have mostly been against strong grapplers, he usually goes for it and does well against strikers. But Wonderboy’s a different kettle of fish to the guys who have previously stood with Holland. I don’t think Holland will be quite as aggressive or effective against a counterstriker like Thompson. So we might see more of him reverting to that walking around and talking shite version of himself here, and no-one wants 5 rounds of that. We’ll see how it goes. I know I’ve kind of put a downer on it here but it’s still gonna be a fight worth checking out, just to see how it plays out. Hopefully it’s better than I’m picturing it in my head.

 

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Rafael Dos Anjos vs Bryan Barberena is ***WAND’S ONE TO WATCH*** all day. Absolutely love this fight. So much so that I’d much rather have seen this as the main event myself. I get why they laid the card out the way they did but, personally, I’d have stuck this on top. If there’s any negative to this it’s that one of them has to lose.

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I’ve made no secret over the years that I’m a big fan of Dos Anjos. Loved watching his climb through the ranks, picking off bigger names like Diaz, Cerrone and Bendo on the way up and then surprising everyone by ripping the title away from Pettis. He was a guy who was never expected to reach those heights, was never one of the company’s golden boys and was never done any favours when it came to matchmaking, and he got to the top of the mountain despite that. Pure badass as well. He fought a rising Khabib when most were probably avoiding him like the plague, went 5 rounds with prime Tony Ferguson, moved up to 170 and beat the likes of Lawler and Magny before losing to the top guys. Even then though, he took Usman, Covington and Edwards the full 5 rounds. Since he’s dropped back to 155 he’s beat Paul Felder and Renato Moicano and, once again, was up for fighting Makhachev before that fell apart. He gives no fucks whatsoever. Look back at his record and you’ll be hard pressed to find another guy in that 155-70 range who’s fought a harder schedule than RDA. He’s coming into this fight off a 5th round knockout loss against Rafael Fiziev but I seem to recall he was looking solid in that before the finish as well. At 38 I think it’s fair to say his best days are behind him but he’s still no mug. I just hope that Fiziev KO doesn’t turn out to be the start of his chin going. And he’s going back up to 170 for this one, which I’m not sure is a great idea but maybe the cut to 155 is starting to be too much as he approaches the big 40.

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The last time we saw Barberena, he was stopping the legendary Robbie Lawler in a wild brawl in July. Easily one of my favourite fights this year. There were spells in the fight where Lawler looked as good as ever to me but ‘Bam Bam’ stood there and fearlessly went to war with him and came through with the second round finish. Fantastic stuff. As goofy as all that BMF bollocks was, if any fight this year was worthy of a BMF champion being crowned, Barberena vs Lawler was probably the one. Barberena’s had a great year all in all so far actually. Before the Lawler win he’d had a similarly exciting scrap against Matt Brown that he won on points. After producing back-to-back bangers like that, it’s only right that he gets a reward. This RDA fight is a huge opportunity for him to finally make some headway in the division. It’s not gonna matter in the end, as much as I like Barberena, he’s never hanging with the top boys at Welterweight, is he? Not a chance. But it’s nice to see him mixing it up with some of these names. This is about as high as he’s going and, really, I think RDA should be winning this comfortably unless he gets drawn into a slugfest. But the combination of RDA coming back up in weight and coming off a knockout, it’s giving me just that bit of doubt. Either way it’s a cracking fight.

 

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Matheus Nicolau vs Matt Schnell sounds like fun to me. Flyweight has become one of my favourite divisions to watch over the last couple of years easy. Funnily enough, around the time Legohead Cejudo fucked off and vacated the title is when it started getting really good. Coincidence? I think not. Even with the Groundhog Day battle for the belt between Figgy and Moreno, it’s just become such an exciting weight class from pretty much top to bottom. This is just another example of that. Admittedly, I’m a bit hazy on Nicolau but he is on a 5 fight winning streak with victories over Manel Kape and Tim Elliott in there. He’s 18-2-1 overall with 9 finishes. It’s Schnell I’m looking forward to seeing back in there more though.

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His last fight ended like that. Absolute carnage. He choked Su Mudaerji all the way out with a triangle choke in the second round of a barmy fight that got FOTN and, honestly, deserves to be on anyone’s shortlist for FOTY when those discussions get going next month. It was one of those fights that I expected to be good, but I’d never have predicted what we actually got. If anything, I was higher on Mudaerji going in and was half expecting it to be a showcase for him. Schnell was having none of that. Mudaerji did have him in all kinds of bother but Schnell managed to gut through it and mount a wild comeback. Schnell’s gonna be looking to build on that here. He’d had a very patchy UFC run prior to that. Nicolau’s is gonna be tricky and I can’t see him getting dragged into anything like the Mudaerji fight but we’ll see. The Flyweights usually bring it. 

 

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Tai Tuivasa vs Sergei Pavlovich isn’t getting out of the first round, is it? Surely. Surely. They’re both just so heavy handed and so aggressive and it’s not like these guys are known for being defensive marvels either. Someone’s getting waffled. I’ve got a feeling it’s Tai but it’s basically a tossup with these fuckers. They’re gonna collide and whoever connects clean first likely wins. Tuivasa is tough as shit as well, so there’s that. We haven’t really seen Pavlovich’s durability put to the test much. He’s 16-1 with the one loss being to Overeem. Can’t really hold that against him. He’s won 4 straight since then, all first round stoppages. Of his 16 wins, 13 came in the first round. He doesn’t fuck about.

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There he is in his last fight, stopping Derrick Lewis at UFC 277 in July. A lot of people complained that it was a premature stoppage but I don’t think the Beast was getting out of that upright. It was less than a minute into the fight and Pavlovich was fresh and would’ve been able to tee off at full power longer than I think Lewis could’ve withstood that barrage. I think if the roles were reversed and Lewis got that finish over Pavlovich, nobody would’ve moaned. I think the cries of ‘early stoppage’ were mostly just because people love big Derrick. Regardless, Pavlovich is clearly a dangerous big old lump. Like I said, Tai’s granite tough but that’s not always a good thing. He took a bad beating from Ciryl Gane on the Paris card in September. Jumping back in with a big hitter like Pavlovich here, I don’t know, I’ve just had a bad feeling about it ever since it was announced.

 

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Jack Hermansson vs Roman Dolidze is a decent fight. It was supposed to be Hermansson vs Derek Brunson but Brunson picked up an injury and pulled out. Shame but this is a good replacement. I like Hermansson but he’s been on a win one, lose on run of inconsistency for a while now. He’s coming into this fight off a solid points win over Chris Curtis on the London card in July. He was meant to fight Darren Till that night, which could’ve been a nice name win for him. But Till did what he does best these days and withdrew from the fight. But yeah, Hermansson’s been a bit hot and cold lately. He seemed to peak a few years ago with that upset win over Jacare but hasn’t really been able to keep the momentum going. He’s had his moments though with the Edmen Shahbazyan win and the quick heel hook against Kelvin Gastelum. I was disappointed to see Brunson pulled out but throwing Dolidze into the mix definitely has my attention.

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That’s how Dolidze’s last two fights have ended. A crushing knee put a painful end to Kyle Daukaus’ night in June. And Phil Hawes got his knee tweaked in a leg lock and then put to bed early by a barrage of punches in October. Both first round finishes and Dolidze bagged POTN bonuses for both. He’s 11-1 now with 9 wins coming inside the distance. He’s a handful. He got off to a bit of a shaky start in the UFC but he seems to have got comfortable now and he’s looking good. This is a tough one for him on paper though, just because Hermansson’s mixed at a higher level and it’s on short notice. It’s a step up and a test and it’s always a gamble but Dolidze must fancy the job so we’ll see.

 

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Eryk Anders vs Kyle Daukaus is currently slated to open up the main card. Not a bad matchup but I’m not that into it and it’s because of Anders. I’ve reached the point a while ago where I just can’t be doing with him anymore. I can’t get into his fights for some reason. He’s had quite an odd UFC stint really. Started off pretty well with some nice knockouts but it didn’t take long for him to fizzle out. He did have a couple of decisions go against him that I remember having him winning. One against Lyoto Machida, which would’ve been the biggest win of his career by far, the other against the late Elias Theodorou. But then he won a decision over our Gerald that I absolutely thought he lost. It’s just been all over the shop. The biggest problem I have is just that he’s a guy who seems to have all the physical tools but then you watch him and there’s just nothing about him. He comes into this fight off losses to Andre Muniz and Jun Yong Park and he’s now 14-7-0-1. He’s not Chookagian/Jotko levels of boredom but he’s not far off for me now. No question I’ll be pulling for a Daukaus win here. I don’t see him going far really, he’s been very inconsistent. He’s 11-3-0-1 now and has gone 2-3-0-1 in the UFC. Not the best. He’s been good to watch though and the numbers on the record don’t tell the whole story. He had that No Contest with Kevin Holland in there, where they clashed heads. But he was looking good prior to that. And one of the losses was the barnburner with Brendan Allen in his UFC debut, which I loved but it got overshadowed by Poirier vs Hooker the same night. That one fight was better than Anders’ whole UFC run though.

 

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Niko Price vs Phil Rowe should be a lively one. Finally Niko’s back. Don’t know where he’s been but we haven’t seen him since he beat Alex Oliveira just over a year ago. I’ve loved watching Price. He’s been a genuine highlight for me on pretty much every single card he’s appeared on. From Fight Night shit to big PPVs, his fights always stick out in the memory for me. He had that mega fun fight with Michel Pereira on the Poirier vs McGregor 3 undercard last summer, he lost a decision but I loved that fight. Exciting fights with Cerrone and Luque that didn’t go his way. Then there were those mad knockouts he pulled off from weird positions.

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How often do you see that shit? Knocked out Randy Brown with hammerfists from his back and James Vick with that nasty upkick. He had a belting scrap against Tim Means as well that ended with Niko sparking him. He’s great. He’s not a future contender by any means. He’s lost every time he’s stepped up a level. But if Niko’s name is on a card, I’m guaranteed to be watching it. I haven’t seen enough of Rowe to give much of an opinion really but he’s 9-3 with all 9 wins coming inside the distance. He stopped Leon Shahbazyan (Edmen’s little bro) on DWCS and he’s TKO’d Orion Cosce and Jason Witt in his last couple of fights. I can’t remember the Witt fight but I recall enjoying that Cosce fight a lot actually. This could well end up being the sleeper show stealer. Even on a card as good as this, it’s got all the ingredients of something crazy.

 

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Angela Hill vs Emily Ducote is alright. Not setting the world alight or anything but I don’t mind it. Despite the abysmal 14-12 record, I’ve quite enjoyed watching ‘Overkill’ Hill over the years. And even the record is a tad misleading. I think the majority of people had her winning those decisions against Claudia Gadelha, Michelle Waterson and Amanda Lemos but she ended up on the wrong end of split decisions in all 3 fights. If the judges scored differently there her record now would be 17-9 instead of 14-12 and they would’ve been the 3 best wins of her career. Would’ve made a big difference. She actually might’ve even bagged a title shot at some point. She’d have lost obviously, not a snowball’s chance in hell she’d have ever beat Zhang or Rose or whoever. But it would’ve been a cool moment for her. That’s the thing that’s hurt her most, she’s got good striking but she lacks that fight ending/fight changing power. The rare times she has finished anyone, it’s been through cuts from elbows. She’ll be 38 a month after this fight. She’s coming off a points win over Loopy Godinez, which is a solid win, but I can’t see her fighting that much longer. I think a couple more losses, if she hits that 50/50 record or losing record point and the UFC pull the plug, she’ll call it a day. I can’t see her fighting elsewhere, I get the feeling her career ends when the UFC don’t want to book fights for her anymore, and that day must be coming soon. She’ll likely move into the analyst position on ESPN full time. Anyway, Ducote is a decade younger at 28 and she’s a former Invicta champ with a record of 12-6 with 7 finishes. The headkick she won that belt with was absolutely brutal. She made her UFC debut in July, winning a clear but not exactly spectacular decision over Jessica Penne.

 

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Clay Guida vs Scott Holtzman. I don’t know. It’s mad really that Guida is still turning up on these cards after all these years. If you’d asked me in about 2009 how long I expected Guida to be around, I’d have said not much fucking longer. Just because of the crazy style he fought with. Those wars against Tyson Griffin, Roger Huerta, Diego Sanchez and even Benson Henderson were batshit. To this day, some of my favourite fights ever and sometimes I don’t think Clay gets the credit he deserves for the part he played in helping to put the Lightweight division back on the map when the UFC brought it back in 2006. It’s bigged up as the best division in the sport these days and that crop of 155ers in around 2007 - Guida, Griffin, Huerta, Edgar, Sanchez, Lauzon, Fisher, Stout etc - were the backbone of 155 and having banger after banger. Fans who weren’t watching at the time probably don’t realise that Guida was a massive part of that. He had a bit of a cult following back then.

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Bless the mad sod. In the late 2000s he joined the Jackson-Wink camp in Albuquerque, New Mexico and he’s never been the same since. I remember we all moaned at the time that Greg Jackson had taken one of the most exciting fighters in the game and made him dull. Guida vs Gray Maynard in 2012 was especially rotten. Awful fight. But looking back, it was absolutely the best move Guida could’ve made. As entertaining as he was to watch in his wildman days, his career wasn’t gonna last much longer fighting like that fight in and fight out. The move to Jackson’s and later Team Alpha Male and tweaking his style definitely prolonged his career. He turns 41 years old a few days after this fight and, while he’s clearly coming to the end of his career, he’s not disgracing himself out there. He got kneebarred by Claudio Puelles last time out but he submitted BJJ world champion Leo Santos in his fight before that and took Mark Madsen to a split decision before that. Anyway, suppose I better mention Holtzman. He’s 39 with a record of 14-5 and his career highlight has been his decision win over Jim Miller in their FOTN back in 2020. I’m vague on him but I remember him being decent enough. He’s coming off back-to-back knockout losses but to be fair, they were against Gamrot and Dariush. No shame there. The Dariush one was a vicious spinning backfist and, to be honest, that’s my main memory of Holtzman. Him getting whacked into another dimension by the spinning shit of Benny D. Not sure what to expect here but it’s about as reasonable a matchup as you can make for both at this stage. 

 

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Michael Johnson vs Marc Diakiese is a bit of a weird one. They’ve both kind of got that thing about them where you never quite know which version of them is gonna show up. I say it every time he fights but Michael Johnson might have the strangest and most ‘all over the place’ record in UFC history. A 20-18 record with wins over Tony Ferguson, Dustin Poirier, Edson Barboza and Joe Lauzon. Yet on the same record there’s losses to Darren Elkins, Stevie Ray, Thiago Moises and Jamie Mullarkey. Nothing against those names he lost to, they’re all good. But there’s no rhyme or reason. When MJ has looked on, he’s genuinely shown flashes of being a legit potential contender. Even in some of the losses, he’d be winning and looking great then just gets knocked out suddenly or caught in a sub out of nowhere. He took Gaethje to the brink in a war as well. People used to love to hype Kevin Lee up as the next big thing at 155 but I honestly think Johnson showed more glimpses of that potential. He just couldn’t put it all together on a consistent basis for whatever reason. He’s coming into this fight having lost 5 of his last 6 fights. It’s not looking good. Diakiese is 16-5 and, while he certainly hasn’t mixed with the kind of names Johnson has, he’s been similarly hot and cold. He’s changed things up recently though. He was thought of as just a striker for a long time but he’s wrestled the bollocks off Slava Claus and Hadzovic in his last 2 fights. Clearly a positive that he’s working on his wrestling but those last 2 fights weren’t good to watch. When it’s done well, a wrestling battle can be great to watch but this was a guy who’s slowly improving at wrestling outwrestling guys who can’t wrestle. Not a single clue how this one plays out.

 

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Darren Elkins vs Jonathan Pearce could be good actually. I think everyone’s got a bit of a soft spot for Elkins. The man’s bled buckets in there over the years and that nutty comeback knockout he scored against Mirsad Bektic years ago cemented me as a fan for life. He’s 38 now though and all the knocks and the damage has been accumulating and piling up for years.

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‘The Damage’ indeed. He beat Tristan Connelly on points last time out but he got stopped in 2 minutes by fellow ageing battler Cub Swanson before that. I don’t know. He’s still as game as ever and if he can drag you into his kind of grinding, ugly fight he’ll still usually do well. But he’s only been winning at a certain level. Whenever he’s tried to go up a level he’s come unstuck. He lost to Volkanovski but he never had a prayer in that one, obviously. But Lamas, Hall, Landwehr and old Cub all proved too much as well. I’m not sure where Pearce sits. At first glance you might think he’s in that Connelly bracket as someone Elkins still beats but I’m not sure. Pearce hasn’t made much noise and he’s not a well known name in the Featherweight division by any means but he’s been quietly stacking up wins for a bit now and I think he could be a dangerous one for Elkins. He’s the younger man by 8 years and he’s 13-4 with 11 finishes and currently riding a 4 fight win streak. He’s gone 9-1 in his last 10 with the only loss coming to Joe Lauzon back in 2019. That was up at 155, he dropped to 145 after that and has been winning ever since. Stopped Makwan Amirkhani last time out on the London card in July. 

 

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Natan Levy vs Genaro Valdez is a bit of an interesting one actually. Neither have gotten off to the best of starts in the UFC so I’m looking forward to seeing how this goes. Levy is Israeli, 31 years old and 7-1 with 3 finishes. Oddly enough, his martial arts background is all striking yet his 3 MMA finishes all came via submission. He fought exclusively in LFA before appearing on DWCS in late 2020, a triangle choke finish on there earned him a shot at the UFC. He immediately dropped a decision in his Octagon debut against Rafa Garcia though. He rebounded in April with a points win over Mike Breeden. Valdez is Mexican, 30 years old and 10-1 with all 10 wins being finishes. Mirroring Levy, he also got in the door with a win on DWCS and also lost his UFC debut. His was more dramatic though. He had a mental 3 minute shootout with Matt Frevola and ended up hitting the deck. This is his attempt to get back on track.

 

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Francis Marshall vs Marcelo Rojo might be worth tuning into Fight Pass for. It’s the UFC debut for Marshall. He’s only 23 years old and currently unbeaten at 6-0 with 4 submissions. Got a win on DWCS in August and here we are. Did anyone see that fight? How did he look? Rojo is 34 years old and 16-8 with 14 finishes. He’s a teammate of Brandon Moreno and has been quite entertaining to watch despite a very patchy win/loss ratio. He’s coming off a couple of losses to Charles Jourdain and Kyler Phillips but I remember both being really fun to watch. He’s going nowhere though and they’re probably looking at this purely as a showcase debut for Marshall but we’ll see how it goes. You just never know if these young pups are ready and, for all his faults, Rojo’s tough and has been operating on a higher level than what Marshall is used to.

 

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Yazmin Jauregui vs Istela Nunes is a fight I’m definitely gonna be making sure I catch. To be honest, I’m really surprised this is in the Fight Pass opener spot. I don’t know if the bout order is final, I think it is, but if it is I don’t get why Jauregui has been relegated to the curtain jerker position. At just 23 years old, she’s undefeated at 9-0 with 6 knockouts and made her UFC debut in August against 20 year old Iasmin Lucindo. At the time I remember some moaning because it was 2 newcomers debuting and they were on the main card. But they went out there and tore it up. Jauregui won a decision in a really exciting scrap.

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Jauregui’s translator’s face there ? what was he on? But yeah, Dana rushed straight over to her after, which you don’t usually see. I genuinely can’t remember the last time we saw 2 fighters making their UFC debuts at such a young age, go out and have a fight like that. At just 23 and 20 respectively, those two surpassed any expectations I had going in and it quickly made sense why that fight was on the main card. Which makes it more confusing why this is buried down on Fight Pass. Oh well. Nunes is Brazilian, 30 years old with a 6-3-0-1 record. Can’t remember much about her but she fought in ONE before jumping over to the UFC. She’s gone 0-2 since though. Very much feels like she’s being brought in as a bit of a sacrificial lamb here for Jauregui to shine against.

 

Not sure about that main event but I’ve got a good feeling about this card. 

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Edited by wandshogun09
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good feeling, and in front of a crowd!

Like you wand. i cant really see how that main event plays out, and it intrigues me. I expect Holland to win but how or when during the fight I have no idea.

Love RDA/Barbarena too.

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I was thinking the same as you Wand, flip that main and Co-main and both probably get even better. Imagine Barbarena getting five rounds? That's a great fight. I'd be very surprised if the main event isn't a cagey, little happening, five round affair, like you say. Though it's an important fight for both as they are in dire need of the win at this stage for both men. 

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Which one of Tuivasa or Pavlovich has pissed off Uncle Dana? Tuivasa just headlined a huge Fight Night card, and was on a great win streak before losing at it. Pavlovich is on a four fight win streak, and in his last fight stopped the Black Beast on a UFC PPV main card. Their reward? Being fourth fight down on a Fight Night card, even below two no name flyweights who most couldnt pick out of a line up. I know they dont earn more cash the higher up they are on a show, but regardless, it just seems bizarre.

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I think it might be a case of them wanting to give Schnell decent billing as a bit of a reward for that mad fight with Mudaerji last time as well. We’re 2 weeks away anyway so there’s probably a decent chance the lineup looks completely different by fight night. I mean, the Lewis vs Spivac main event got binned mid show last night so anything can happen. 

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