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Fighters You Hate - Past & Present


L_E_T_H_A_L

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Jon Jones is a fine choice for this thread for so many reasons. There's so much to dislike about him and so many reasons why his name would come up here.

 

But that post baffles me.

 

Jon Jones. I never bought into the hype from day one.

As Ebb said above, to suggest Jones is a hype job is just wrong. Jones has more than proven himself. And in fact, the UFC machine wasn't exactly behind him. Especially after the whole UFC 151 debacle. It was common knowledge that he had an adversarial relationship with Dana behind the scenes and they were often at loggerheads. And Dana was always trying to position someone else above Jones in the silly P4P discussion.

 

He was a Light heavyweight who had the reach of a Heavyweight and as such used it to clear out an ageing division

How come this doesn't work in other divisions then? Why's Cole Miller not been wrecking shop at 155/145? Why's Nate Diaz like a 50/50 in big lightweight fights? Why's Struve not doing better? And how come Gustafsson doesn't get the same criticism? As for the aging division bit it's easy to say that in hindsight but at the time he beat them they weren't all spent forces like some of them are now. Shogun had just solved the Machida puzzle when Jones wrecked him. Rampage wasn't anywhere near as far gone as he is now. Rashad and Machida were both still in good form. And what about him schooling Cormier and Glover?

 

the second he faced somebody with the same reach as him (Gus) he got his ass handed to him only to keep the belt through some dodgy judges.

He didn't get his ass handed to him at all, nor were the judges dodgy. Where did Gus hand him his arse exactly? It was a close fight which the majority of the MMA media and journalists, and even Dana himself, had Jones winning. And it was Gus who was badly rocked from the spinning elbow. It was Gus who was hanging on for dear life. Gus never once had Jones rocked or in serious trouble. He landed a lot of strikes and did way better than everyone expected in the wrestling. But he never battered Jones at all. It was a back and forth war. And I've always felt like the people crying robbery are doing so because the guy they wanted to lose got the decision.

 

UFC tried everything they could to make him their first mega star

They didn't though. Like I said, after the UFC 151 cancellation things went badly sour between the UFC and Jones and I don't think things ever recovered. Dana was always saying that Mighty Mouse and Renan Barao were above Jones in the pound for pound discussion. Think he made arguments for Rousey as well at some point. It was no secret that things were frosty.

 

he just blew chance after chance and now is sat out suspended (again) whilst McGregor and Rousey get to be what he should have been. Honestly he doesn't have any redeeming features for me

Agree with this 100% though.

 

I would rather just not see him in the UFC, I hate him that much I wouldn't even take joy in watching him lose, I just want him gone.

But not this bit. I WOULD take great pleasure in watching him lose. Especially if it was DC handing out the beating. It would be a joyous occasion.

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I think most fans felt Gusty beat Jones. I remember a poll on Sherdog indicating that was the case. However, all 3 of Sherdog's staff scored it for Jones. I would have to watch it back, but I think I had it 1 round either way.

 

Jones does have a significant advantage in physical gifts, and one more than any fighter in MMA history. He was years ahead of the game in that regard. When he first hit the scene, the division was ruled by Shogun and Machida. Both of whom are - or could be - modest size Middleweights. Jones was the first fighter to really define the description - "Light-Heavyweight" People of Jones's specific size and talent don't come along often. How many fighters are that tall and built, but lanky enough to make 205lbs? Very few, and the ones that do have the physical make-up, usually lack athleticism. We've seen how rare quality Light Heavyweights are in general, let alone ones that have comparable makes-ups to Jones. 

 

Jones's didn't feed off an ageing division though. Just look at his wins from 2011 onward

 

Bader - If there was argument to be made that Bader wasn't at his peak at the time they fought - he would be before it - not after it. They were the division's two best prospects at the time. 

 

Shogun/Rampage - Probably not at their absolute best, but not far off.

 

Rashad/Gus/Glover/D.C/Machida - All in their primes. All top-flight contenders. 

 

Sonnen - Joke fight

 

Belfort - Blown up Middleweight, but still dangerous

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There's certainly arguments to be made on either side.

Is Jones a gifted fighter? Without question and is one of the greatest.

That said, does his size give him an advantage over his opponents? Again, yes.

 

Jones has a bizarre figure in that his legs are so skinny that he's able to made 205 quite comfortably. His frame gives him a huge advantage over his opponents and when you look at the fighters he has beaten, outside of Gustafsson, he's been huge in comparison.

 

I'm really fascinated to finally see Jones vs Rumble though. Whilst DC gave the foot print to victory over him, Jones vs Rumble stylistically is an amazing fight. 

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Agreed. 

 

Jones's two worst performances have arguably come against two fighters of comparable size. Gusty took him to the wire in 2013. Also, while he outclassed OSP, he didn't really impress that night. Both of those two only give up 1 or 2 inches in reach, and 1 inch at the most in height. Jones is used to having a 3 or 4 inch advantage in both, sometimes more in terms of reach (D.C had a 72.5 inch reach, compared to Jones's 80) With that in mind, I would be licking my chops for a Jones vs Rumble fight, as the reach and height differential between the two is minimal.

 

This is not to say that Jones isn't a special talent. He's the best Light Heavyweight to ever draw breath. I can just see where ringmaster was coming from with that one. 

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Agreed. 

 

Jones's two worst performances have arguably come against two fighters of comparable size. Gusty took him to the wire in 2013. Also, while he outclassed OSP, he didn't really impress that night. Both of those two only give up 1 or 2 inches in reach, and 1 inch at the most in height. Jones is used to having a 3 or 4 inch advantage in both, sometimes more in terms of reach (D.C had a 72.5 inch reach, compared to Jones's 80) With that in mind, I would be licking my chops for a Jones vs Rumble fight, as the reach and height differential between the two is minimal.

 

This is not to say that Jones isn't a special talent. He's the best Light Heavyweight to ever draw breath. I can just see where ringmaster was coming from with that one. 

 

Jones still quite bigger than Rumble though Jim. He's 2/3 inches taller than Rumble, whilst also having 6 to 7 inch reach advantage. Jones' reach is 84 to 85 inches. 

 

My fascination is Rumble's KO power. 

 

The one thing that Jones doesn't have is KO power and would he leave openings up for Rumble? Jones has faced KO fighters before in Rampage and Glover, but they are not in the same league as Rumble. Rumble's explosiveness would provide Jones with a huge challenge.

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Rumble is listed at 6ft 2, and Jones at 6ft 4. I thought Rumble was a bit taller for some reason. Although come to think of it, Gusty was visibly taller than him. 

 

The difference between them in reach is 2 inches. That may sound like quite a bit, but the standard is that Jones has at least double that over his opponents. Rumble is built like a tank as well. In terms of an all-round physical presence, Rumble might be the biggest that Jones has faced. 

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My mistake. 

 

Jones really is a freak athlete in MMA isn't he? 

 

He's a puzzle that's just so hard to solve. 

 

His wrestling base makes him so difficult to take down so if you have to stand with him his kicks keep you at distance.

 

It's his reach that's just ridiculous though. Even Gus with the height has a 8.5 inch reach disadvantage compared to Jones.

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I've got absolutely no issue with Jones using his physical gifts to his advantage. He's a giant for the weight class and no doubt it's an advantage but if he can make 205 - and I've never ever heard that he's particularly struggled to make 205 - then what of it? McGregor enjoyed a similar thing at 145. He had the range and reach on most of his opponents.

 

I think Jones' lack of power is one of the main reasons he's hesitant to go up to heavyweight, to be honest. When Jones vs Rumble was originally booked for UFC 187, Jones was asked about punching power and he even said himself something like "Rumble says I can't bust a grape, and I think he's probably right". It was something like that anyway. He knows his shortcomings. Power is literally the only attribute Jones lacks as a fighter. Obviously as a human being he lacks many.

 

It's why I'm still absolutely fascinated by the idea of a Jones vs Rumble fight and why I was so gutted that we were so close to it happening only for Jones to fuck everything up again. It's by far the most interesting fight at 205 now.

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Like a lot of people, I can't stand Jon Jones, but it is indeed ridiculous to say he's a hype job. I think it's also unfair to say it's all about his reach or size; you've only to watch the Cormier fight to see there's way more to him than that. Cormier did seem to do well initially by stepping forward aggressively, getting inside Jones' range and peppering him with body shots, but Jones made him pay a hefty price every time he did it, smashing him with shoulder shots, and then out-wrestling him.

 

Jones is an absolutely rancid gusset of a human being, but the most disgusting thing about him is that he's actually really good.

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