Bret hart

[L_E_T_H_A_L]

Question - is there a better cage match than the one he had with Owen at SS '94?

 

Yes. Magnum TA vs Tully Blanchard at Starrcade 85, Ric Flair vs Harley Race from Starrcade 83, Jerry Lawler vs Austin Idol hair vs hair match, quite a few more too.

 

Buzz Sawyer vs Tommy Rich as well?

 

In all seriousness, I can't agree. Those matches have aged horribly, especially Flair vs. Race which is almost slow-motion compared to Bret vs Owen.

[Chest Rockwell]

Was there even blood in Bret vs Owen? I need me some claret in the cage.

 

I'll admit I've not seen any of those matches you or Butch mentioned so they may well be better.

 

However, just asking this question kinda lets me know that you missed the point of what made the Bret/Owen match so great. Owen's desperation to just get the fuck out of there is fantastic... and man, the near-escapes are still nail-biting even though I know what's coming!

[PowerButchi]

Question - is there a better cage match than the one he had with Owen at SS '94?

 

Yes. Magnum TA vs Tully Blanchard at Starrcade 85, Ric Flair vs Harley Race from Starrcade 83, Jerry Lawler vs Austin Idol hair vs hair match, quite a few more too.

 

Buzz Sawyer vs Tommy Rich as well?

 

In all seriousness, I can't agree. Those matches have aged horribly, especially Flair vs. Race which is almost slow-motion compared to Bret vs Owen.

 

It's still a fine match, and will be for a damned while.. Top matches don't need to be 100mph to be top matches.

[L_E_T_H_A_L]

Question - is there a better cage match than the one he had with Owen at SS '94?

 

Yes. Magnum TA vs Tully Blanchard at Starrcade 85, Ric Flair vs Harley Race from Starrcade 83, Jerry Lawler vs Austin Idol hair vs hair match, quite a few more too.

 

Buzz Sawyer vs Tommy Rich as well?

 

In all seriousness, I can't agree. Those matches have aged horribly, especially Flair vs. Race which is almost slow-motion compared to Bret vs Owen.

 

It's still a fine match, and will be for a damned while.. Top matches don't need to be 100mph to be top matches.

 

It's a fine match for it's time, yes - but to borrow a phrase, comparing Race vs Flair to Bret vs Owen is like comparing ice cream to horse shit. The emotion and artistry of the SummerSlam '94 match was exceptional and stands the test of time easily.

 

Another thing is that I thought Gene Kiniski's performance detracted from that match. Maybe I'm alone in that thought, but he was involving himself far too much in the action for little reason, which I saw as an attempt by an old worker to get himself over at the expense of the match.

[PowerButchi]

Did I say the SS '94 match lacked emotion and so forth and hasn't aged well? No. Just that Flair vs Race is better. Your mileage may vary, but there's really little wrong with Flair vs Race, outside of Kiniski. I don't understand the "for it's time" bit, or why it's been underlined like I can't read or something. It's something different, but it still holds up. Just because it's a bit slower paced then matches from 11 years later doesn't make it shit or obsolete. The storytelling in the match is more than fine, and that's what counts and means it's still good today.

[Devon Malcolm]

I saw Magnum TA v Tully Blanchard for the first time recently and thought it was brilliant - much preferred it to Bret v Owen, which went on too long for my liking even though it was a really good match.

 

I didn't think the former match had looked like it had aged at all, and besides I always hate 'it's aged' as a main criticism because it mostly seems a lazy way of criticising something without actually saying anything.

 

I'll certainly check out those other matches you mention, Butch.

[Mr Butternut Squash]

Always found Flair vs Race to be a tad overrated to be honest. Flair vs Ron Garvin at Starrcade 87 and Flair vs Morton GAB 86 were much more enjoyable when it comes to Flair in a cage. IN A CAGE!!

 

Anyway, Bret. It's been years so I re-watched him vs Owen steel cage and it's pretty good. It's way too long and there's too many 'climb the cage' spots which got very repetitive. And, well nitpicking I know, but I hate babyface Bret desperately diving to escape the cage door five minutes into the match. The ending is brilliant. It's the dullest Bret vs Owen match I've seen though.

[L_E_T_H_A_L]

Did I say the SS '94 match lacked emotion and so forth and hasn't aged well? No. Just that Flair vs Race is better. Your mileage may vary, but there's really little wrong with Flair vs Race, outside of Kiniski. I don't understand the "for it's time" bit, or why it's been underlined like I can't read or something. It's something different, but it still holds up. Just because it's a bit slower paced then matches from 11 years later doesn't make it shit or obsolete. The storytelling in the match is more than fine, and that's what counts and means it's still good today.

 

Sorry Butch, I didn't realise I was coming across as a bit of a dick there.

 

The point I was making is that, in my opinion, the Flair vs Race match has not aged very well whereas Bret vs Owen has. By the standards of their time both are rightly considered classics.

 

What's your opinion of Kiniski as referee?

[PowerButchi]

Shite, he got in the way. That's the worst sign of someone doing am awful job as referee, if you ask me. Being noticed.

 

I mean, it wasn't like he was there to be a Hayes like enforcer from Von Erich vs Flair from Xmas '82. Oooh, add that one to "Better cage matches than Bret vs Owen".

[L_E_T_H_A_L]

Shite, he got in the way. That's the worst sign of someone doing am awful job as referee, if you ask me. Being noticed.

 

I mean, it wasn't like he was there to be a Hayes like enforcer from Von Erich vs Flair from Xmas '82. Oooh, add that one to "Better cage matches than Bret vs Owen".

 

That was a great match, and a much better candidate than Race vs Flair in my opinion.

 

Speaking of excellent cage matches, I just watched Rock vs HHH from Rebellion '99. First time I'd seen it in years, it's a hidden gem.

[HeavyT]

Personally stick him in as successor to hogan up until Austin, same tier as HBK.

[Leary of Doom]

Bret's my all time favourite wrestler, and should be remembered as one of the greats.

 

Unfortunately for a generation of fans, they'll remember the Bret that wrestled in the matches where he couldn't legally take anything

[TheShowOff]

If they are smart enough to know he 'legally' couldn't take anything, I'm sure they're smart enough to type his name into YouTube...

[aaron]

If they are smart enough to know he 'legally' couldn't take anything

 

Then they would know that he could 'lawfully'... yadda, yadda, yadda.

 

But, yeah. Honest slaves.

[TheShowOff]

Awful.