Paid Members wandshogun09 Posted July 22, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted July 22, 2012 Yeah to be fair I don't think there's too much Faber could have done really. He was just in there with a better fighter. By rounds 4 and 5 he had taken a fair bit of damage from the leg kicks, plus Barao hurt Faber's ribs early on. I don't think he had any real explosion left at that point to go for broke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimufctna24 Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Just watched this overall a bad show, as I only watched the Main Card  Undercard  Was very impressed with Matt Riddle in the opener, great submission finish and the fight of the Main Card.  Ebersole taking that fight was baffling he was clearly on his way to cutting to lightweight, even more baffling was his repeated takedown attempts, he was not doing bad in the striking. At times Ebersole looks like he is just pratting around in there and not taking it seriously. Hopefully this loss will sort that out, he clearly has a lot of talent as shown in his thrashing of Dennis Hallman and submission defense.  Kongo vs Jordan was like a tribute to the days of Gonzage vs Kevin Jordan and Tim Slyvia vs Arlovski 3, just a tiresome and boring fight which both fighters came out of with their stock being lower.  Now Hector Lombard!  The UFC clearly expected him to win, they hyped him up a treat and gave him the hefty co-main event slot (partially due to injuries I know) but lets look at who this man beat the past few years to get his hype.  A past his prime Trevor Prangley, UFC Rejects Jesse Taylor, Kalib Starnes and Jay Silva, aging journeyman like Falaniko Vitale and Joe Doerksen. Their is a win over Ebersole in there but it is due to injury, he also went to a draw with the mid-tier Kyle Noke who has had less than stellar results in the UFC.  Tim Botesh is a tough guy with a lot of heart, but would I put him in my top 10? Would I fuck. Okami was handling him with ease before Botesh hit his shot in the dark. It was a very close fight, but the result was clear, Hector Lombard is one of the most overhyped guys to debut in the UFC in a long while. People bought into his long win streak and olympic credentials far too much (me included)  The fight itself was boring, Lombard is clearly around 5,8 and not 5,10 as listed, he is too small and should drop to 170lbs like his camp believe he can. Botesh is a guy who the top contenders will see rightly as the weak link, Weidman and Belcher if they want to advance and look good should try and get a fight with him.  Barao and Faber  The Main Event went as I expected, Barao was as good as I thought and Faber has become the 2012 BW version of Tito Ortiz, his striking has not evolved enough over the years to complement his wrestling, Cruz and Barao are simply a notch above just like Liddel and others were Tito. Faber will now resume a Rick Franklin type role maybe switching between 135lbs and 145lbs, his days as a title challenger are over unless Cruz keeps the belt and he wins a couple, but that is unlikely and a long while away. Considering how many title shots he has had, I hope it does not happen.  Is Barao as scary and dominant as Anderson Silva when he came on to the scene? No Is Barao even as good as Jose Aldo was when he first struck gold? No, but both of them are something very special, comparing Barao like I have seen in places is unfair. I think Barao and Cruz will be a very close fight if Cruz is 100% As Faber did tag Barao on occasions when he really should not have, Barao won all 5 rounds, but I did not leave with the impression that Barao was unbeatable in the current climate, like I have with Aldo and Silva in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members wandshogun09 Posted July 23, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted July 23, 2012 Is Barao as scary and dominant as Anderson Silva when he came on to the scene? No Is Barao even as good as Jose Aldo was when he first struck gold? No, but both of them are something very special, comparing Barao like I have seen in places is unfair. I think Barao and Cruz will be a very close fight if Cruz is 100% As Faber did tag Barao on occasions when he really should not have, Barao won all 5 rounds, but I did not leave with the impression that Barao was unbeatable in the current climate, like I have with Aldo and Silva in the past.  Yeah, not many on the planet are as scary as an Anderson Silva or Jose Aldo. Or a Jon Jones for that matter. I think Barao's quality though. Loved his celebration with him going mental and screaming over the boos as if to say 'fuck you all and your booing you twats'.  It's worth considering that although Faber's in a tough spot now, he was coming off maybe the most impressive performance of his career in totally destroying Brian Bowles. People are understandably down on Faber at the moment but he's still a very good fighter, and Barao dominated him and probably won every round. That's impressive.  I think Barao will improve more. I'm not saying he'll be an Anderson Silva but he's only 25. Anderson was 25 in 2000 and he was nobody back then. He'd only had a handful of fights and didn't really start looking like an unbeatable ninja until he came to the UFC at 31. Barao's already a 30+ fight veteran at 25, he's got off to a ridiculous start and he's still got time to improve.  Some gifs from the good stuff on the show  BARAO  Francisco Rivera's short left hook KO  Ryan Jimmo KO's a Hippo in 7 seconds  And the man who stole the PPV main card and the post fight press conference, Matt Riddle  here's Riddle's 'Butter-toothed' Brit rant at the presser;  Love that. There's something likeable about Riddle to me. Even when he's having a pop at our teeth. I like his dopey trash talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members JNLister Posted July 23, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted July 23, 2012 Was it edited out of the ESPN UK showing, did I skip past it by mistake, or did they really have a guy debut with a 7 second KO and not show it on the PPV? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Bus Surfer Posted July 23, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted July 23, 2012 I didn't see it on the broadcast either. Everything bar the opener went the full distance, so they must have been strapped for time. You'd think after such a poor show, they'd be trying to get that on frantically. Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimufctna24 Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Yeah, not many on the planet are as scary as an Anderson Silva or Jose Aldo. Or a Jon Jones for that matter. I think Barao's quality though. Loved his celebration with him going mental and screaming over the boos as if to say 'fuck you all and your booing you twats'. Â It's worth considering that although Faber's in a tough spot now, he was coming off maybe the most impressive performance of his career in totally destroying Brian Bowles. People are understandably down on Faber at the moment but he's still a very good fighter and Barao dominated him and probably won every round. That's impressive. Â I think Barao will improve more. I'm not saying he'll be an Anderson Silva but he's only 25. Anderson was 25 in 2000 and he was nobody back then. He'd only had a handful of fights and didn't really start looking like an unbeatable ninja until he came to the UFC at 31. Barao's already a 30+ fight veteran at 25, he's got off to a ridiculous start and he's still got time to improve. I see him as decent, he may get Hall Of Fame due to his importance as the poster boy of WEC and his popularity, but the sport has passed him by. Â We will see with Barao, he will improve no doubt, the fight with Cruz could define his legacy as the best of this era. MMA can change in a instant with new fighters cropping up from nowhere, but at the moment I feel Cruz and Barao are head and shoulders above the rest at 135lbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted July 23, 2012 Author Paid Members Share Posted July 23, 2012 but the sport has passed him by. really? Â Faber's only been defeated by the top guys in the division, when you're talking of a sport passing someone by you're looking at Tito Ortiz and Jens Pulver. Urijah Faber does not fall into that category whatsoever, what fucking planet do you live on? just 8 months ago he schooled former champion Brian Bowles. Before his defeat to Dominic Cruz he schooled Eddie Wineland (a man who just destroyed Scotty Jorgensen). He's come up short in a couple of title shots against the very best fighters in the world. Â Faber's Rib < that clearly hampered his performance Saturday night as well. Â Does Faber get some preferntial treatment? yeah, he does. But outside of a couple of fighters who stand apart from the pack Faber's still amongst the the best in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimufctna24 Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Depends on what you classify as sport passing you by. Â In 2008 Faber was the best FW in the world, but he has not evolved since then. The new breed of Cruz, Aldo and Barao are the new evolution who are younger, more skilled and more well rounded. The division has evolved and grown. Â Faber is entering his mid-thirties and is in my opinion the same fighter as he was in 2008, yes I was impressed with the Bowles performance and the Wineland performance was not bad, but his days of dominance have long gone in the lighter weight classes due to the divisions having deeper talent than when Faber dominated. Â He is still a good fighter, I will not take that away from him, but his peak of his career I believe has come and gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted July 23, 2012 Author Paid Members Share Posted July 23, 2012 ok, i'll give you that. Â But the fact is, Faber still beats most 135'ers. When you talk about Cruz, Barao, Aldo being and a new breed of superior skilled fighters, possibly, but they are few and far between. Nobody at 145 can touch Aldo, and until Barao it didnt look anyone could touch Cruz. Â The UFC seemingly has untouchable champions right now, in every single division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted July 23, 2012 Author Paid Members Share Posted July 23, 2012 Depends on what you classify as sport passing you by. i see it as a guy like Tito Ortiz who never really developed beyond being a streetwise fighter who beat guys purely on strength, decent wrestling technique and endurance. Guys really did surpass Ortiz in every facet of the game. Not just the guys at the top either, i think it could be arguable that Ortiz hasn't been UFC worthy for at least 3-4 years. Â Urijah Faber has not experienced anything like that. He's still one of the most well-rounded and unorthodox fighters in MMA, he's just met a couple of guys that completely shut him down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimufctna24 Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Depends on what you classify as sport passing you by. i see it as a guy like Tito Ortiz who never really developed beyond being a streetwise fighter who beat guys purely on strength, decent wrestling technique and endurance. Guys really did surpass Ortiz in every facet of the game. Not just the guys at the top either, i think it could be arguable that Ortiz hasn't been UFC worthy for at least 3-4 years.  Urijah Faber has not experienced anything like that. He's still one of the most well-rounded and unorthodox fighters in MMA, he's just met a couple of guys that completely shut him down. Fair enough  I think the top-end of the lighter classes has passed Faber by, but if you are going to argue he can still compete and beat most mid-tier guys, I will not argue that. By that the sport as a whole has not a passed him by, the top level has just evolved past him.  It is in process though that the whole sport will, eventually Faber will be a gatekeeper like Ortiz was to Machida, Bader (that one failed) and Hamill. Maybe not for a few years but time and evolution will see it happen sooner rather than later. The sport is very dynamic and changes quickly, is was only a few years ago Machida and Lesnar were seen as unbeatable their maybe only a handful right now who have passed him by, but I would wager there will be a lot more in the near future. The lighter classes as they are in their infancy have a lot more room to grow also.  Faber striking despite the Bowles knockdown is where I think he has not advanced, that is where the Ortiz comparison came into with me. I would and was not arguing that he is in the same league as Ortiz in 2012 as a relic from the past or even Pulver when Faber himself first fought him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted July 23, 2012 Author Paid Members Share Posted July 23, 2012 Faber's striking is different though, id say a guy like Ortiz has always been very average boxing mixed with a few kicks. Faber's style is very unique, he's never been a traditional striker, he's definitly not developed in a straight boxing/muay thai sense. But he's always been a guy that's mixed it all together and that's what has always made him so successful...he simply his stuff off against Barao or Aldo, it's like Faber's kryptonite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimufctna24 Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 I mean in the sense it was when fighters understood they could outstrike Faber they did so, just like when Liddel exposed Ortiz in that regard. Yeah Faber is a better and advanced striker for his weight class than Ortiz, but the chink in their armour that lead to both of them losing fights was that their were fighters with better striking when they could not use their wrestling effectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted July 23, 2012 Author Paid Members Share Posted July 23, 2012 yeh, he was simply outstruck. But it's probably the only cases where he encountered fighting guys with a seemingly impenetrable stance. Aldo and Barao just seem to shrug off any type of takedown attempt with ease,...then add in a destructive and very disciplined striking style, it's just a bad night for Faber, it's a bad night for anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted July 23, 2012 Author Paid Members Share Posted July 23, 2012 twas a bad night for Anthony Perosh... Â Â and i think Ben Askren summed up the show best with this lil tweet (i think this was tweeted during the Kongo/Jordan fight): Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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