NHS - time to be scrapped?

[Jonathan Ford]

I'm not just saying it to play devil's advocate, but the service you describe isn't massively different to the service you would've received on the NHS. In most hospitals fractures go on a specific operating list and are done as soon as possible, more often than not the next day. In terms of physiotherapy, you'd be seen on the ward and given exercises prior to discharge, then your care continues with community physiotherapy for as long as necessary. I suspect you're right about the amount of consultant follow-up. On the NHS it would probably once at two weeks, then again at 6-8 weeks, then that would probably be it.

 

The significant noticeable difference you describe is the wait in A&E. In the UK they drown under inappropriate attendances and alcohol problems...I admit to not knowing of it's any different in the US. Anyway, glad to hear your shoulder is better.

[d-d-d-dAz]

I broke my collarbone. The service I received at the time, sling and basic x-ray was ok. They told me to go see my GP as a follow up though. I waited less than an hour in the A+E.

 

Made an appointment with my GP. Had to wait 4 days to get seen (not the best). He referred me to an orthopedic surgeon. Saw the orthopedic surgeon the next day. Got an x-ray again. He told me I needed surgery. Said it could be done the next day. I opted to wait a week.

 

Had the surgery. Was taken care of incredibly well. Nurses were all very friendly. Surgeon visited me the next day. Told me to come back to his office in 2 weeks. X-ray'd again. Given simple exercises to get the range of motion back in my shoulder. Told to come back again in 2 weeks. Very quick visit, told me to increase the exercises and told to come back in another 2 weeks.

 

X-ray'd again. Sling removed. Told to go to PT.

 

Signed up for PT. Started within 2 days. Had PT twice a week for the next 6 weeks. Shoulder and collarbone is as good as new.

 

I basically just don't see that happening with the NHS. I expect I would've had to wait around a lot longer before having surgery. I question how much followup I would've got. I also question how much PT I would've got as well.

 

Now yes. I paid money for it. My insurance is pretty good. I had to pay $200 for the surgery. The PT is what cost me the most. $40 a week. The NHS would've been no (direct) cost to me, but with that type of injury I stood the chance of having restricted range of motion if I hadn't received prompt attention and the PT I received.

 

Thing is, you don't prove anything by listing the reasons private healthcare is better and more thorough than the NHS. Everyone knows private healthcare is better, that's why people who can afford it in this country will pay for it.

 

The fact is lots and lots of people can't afford it. I mean, the problem in this country at the minute is an expanding underclass unable to afford basic provisions, unable to find affordable housing and being forced into fuel poverty. In Coventry alone the demand for 'food banks' has increased twelve times since 2008. Imagine the level of disease and squalor amongst the poorest in the country if we were, then, to add an extra layer of misery and say they had to pay for healthcare.

 

The quality of healthcare in this country isn't perfect but, as in the rest of life, something that is free rarely is. The level of care could be improved, that's for sure but the actual system is pretty much perfect I think; if you can afford, and have the desire, to use private healthcare then go ahead but the safety net of a free healthcare is there for the majority for whom that isn't an option.

 

Abolishing the NHS would be criminal but, as this government is suggesting, putting the NHS in direct competition with private healthcare companies for commissioning is similarly criminal.

[neil]

I'm not just saying it to play devil's advocate, but the service you describe isn't massively different to the service you would've received on the NHS. In most hospitals fractures go on a specific operating list and are done as soon as possible, more often than not the next day. In terms of physiotherapy, you'd be seen on the ward and given exercises prior to discharge, then your care continues with community physiotherapy for as long as necessary. I suspect you're right about the amount of consultant follow-up. On the NHS it would probably once at two weeks, then again at 6-8 weeks, then that would probably be it.

 

The significant noticeable difference you describe is the wait in A&E. In the UK they drown under inappropriate attendances and alcohol problems...I admit to not knowing of it's any different in the US. Anyway, glad to hear your shoulder is better.

Thanks. The reason I doubt I'd get the same promptness in care is that I know several people who are serious mountain bikers, and a broken collarbone is common. A lot of them have had to go through the "give it 6 weeks to see if it heals....give it another 4 weeks....still not healed? Well I guess we'll do surgery" routine.

 

Thing is, you don't prove anything by listing the reasons private healthcare is better and more thorough than the NHS. Everyone knows private healthcare is better, that's why people who can afford it in this country will pay for it.

 

The quality of healthcare in this country isn't perfect but, as in the rest of life, something that is free rarely is.

It ain't free though is it?

 

I should spend the time and calculate out the taxes I pay now plus the healthcare costs, and compare it to what I'd pay taxes on in the UK. That would make it a comparison of the costs, and then you can compare the actual quality of care.

[Halitosis Romantic]

I'm not just saying it to play devil's advocate, but the service you describe isn't massively different to the service you would've received on the NHS. In most hospitals fractures go on a specific operating list and are done as soon as possible, more often than not the next day. In terms of physiotherapy, you'd be seen on the ward and given exercises prior to discharge, then your care continues with community physiotherapy for as long as necessary. I suspect you're right about the amount of consultant follow-up. On the NHS it would probably once at two weeks, then again at 6-8 weeks, then that would probably be it.

 

The significant noticeable difference you describe is the wait in A&E. In the UK they drown under inappropriate attendances and alcohol problems...I admit to not knowing of it's any different in the US. Anyway, glad to hear your shoulder is better.

Thanks. The reason I doubt I'd get the same promptness in care is that I know several people who are serious mountain bikers, and a broken collarbone is common. A lot of them have had to go through the "give it 6 weeks to see if it heals....give it another 4 weeks....still not healed? Well I guess we'll do surgery" routine.

 

Thing is, you don't prove anything by listing the reasons private healthcare is better and more thorough than the NHS. Everyone knows private healthcare is better, that's why people who can afford it in this country will pay for it.

 

The quality of healthcare in this country isn't perfect but, as in the rest of life, something that is free rarely is.

It ain't free though is it?

 

I should spend the time and calculate out the taxes I pay now plus the healthcare costs, and compare it to what I'd pay taxes on in the UK. That would make it a comparison of the costs, and then you can compare the actual quality of care.

 

What about the care for people who can't afford it, and/or insurance?

 

Caveat - yes, I'm the nambiest, pambiest liberal there is.

[Jonathan Ford]

Thanks. The reason I doubt I'd get the same promptness in care is that I know several people who are serious mountain bikers, and a broken collarbone is common. A lot of them have had to go through the "give it 6 weeks to see if it heals....give it another 4 weeks....still not healed? Well I guess we'll do surgery" routine.

 

Ah, that's just fractured clavicles. They're rarely treated operatively as they're a bugger to do and the long-term outcomes are no better than non-operative treatment. It's not that people are being strung along.

 

The one aspect of the NHS that really does work is trauma/emergency care.

 

http://jbjs.org/article.aspx?volume=94&page=675

[d-d-d-dAz]

No, your right the NHS isn't free per se. It is paid through national insurance contributions related to your earned income.

 

Surely people don't argue that we have an obligation to look after the basic health care needs of the poorest in society? If then, above and beyond that, people want to seek out private healthcare then good for them.

 

I don't want to live in a country where people think they have an obligation only to themselves and to fuck with everyone else. Yes, those who are better off and earn more money are often there through a certain level skill but they are also there through a whole heap of fortune and luck. You or I could quite easily have been born to crackheads or degenerates, and not been privvy to a decent education and then not been able to find gainful employment and then be wholly reliant on the NHS. We have a responsibility to those less fortunate, because it could quite easily have been us.

[thefallenangel]

No, your right the NHS isn't free per se. It is paid through national insurance contributions related to your earned income.

 

Surely people don't argue that we have an obligation to look after the basic health care needs of the poorest in society? If then, above and beyond that, people want to seek out private healthcare then good for them.

 

I don't want to live in a country where people think they have an obligation only to themselves and to fuck with everyone else. Yes, those who are better off and earn more money are often there through a certain level skill but they are also there through a whole heap of fortune and luck. You or I could quite easily have been born to crackheads or degenerates, and not been privvy to a decent education and then not been able to find gainful employment and then be wholly reliant on the NHS. We have a responsibility to those less fortunate, because it could quite easily have been us.

 

 

 

But then why should some crack addict, break into my house and steal or damage my property and then be entitled to free help on the NHS which i have had to pay for?

 

IMO everyone should be asked to work in some sort of method. Gives most people a form a responsibility and helps them into working and doing something better for the world too.

[andrew "the ref" coyne]

No, your right the NHS isn't free per se. It is paid through national insurance contributions related to your earned income.

 

Surely people don't argue that we have an obligation to look after the basic health care needs of the poorest in society? If then, above and beyond that, people want to seek out private healthcare then good for them.

 

I don't want to live in a country where people think they have an obligation only to themselves and to fuck with everyone else. Yes, those who are better off and earn more money are often there through a certain level skill but they are also there through a whole heap of fortune and luck. You or I could quite easily have been born to crackheads or degenerates, and not been privvy to a decent education and then not been able to find gainful employment and then be wholly reliant on the NHS. We have a responsibility to those less fortunate, because it could quite easily have been us.

 

 

 

But then why should some crack addict, break into my house and steal or damage my property and then be entitled to free help on the NHS which i have had to pay for?

 

IMO everyone should be asked to work in some sort of method. Gives most people a form a responsibility and helps them into working and doing something better for the world too.

 

Well surely the crack addict needs the free medical help so that he (a) stops looting your home and (b) as a result reduces the stress on the police force © gets a job when he's recovered so that he can get a job and pay taxes?

 

It's not always about "being fair", sometimes systems are made to try and improve society as a whole.

[Jonathan Ford]

Risk free profits for the vultures....

[Richie Freebird]

I don't want to live in a country where people think they have an obligation only to themselves and to fuck with everyone else. Yes, those who are better off and earn more money are often there through a certain level skill but they are also there through a whole heap of fortune and luck. You or I could quite easily have been born to crackheads or degenerates, and not been privvy to a decent education and then not been able to find gainful employment and then be wholly reliant on the NHS. We have a responsibility to those less fortunate, because it could quite easily have been us.

 

Absolutely fucking bang on.

[Dead Mike]

Government to block publication of NHS risk register

 

SPOILERS

 

 

 

Don't get old or ill or you're fucked.