the Rock vs Shawn Michaels

[Big Benny HG]

There were probably loads more during the period where Shawn was the Commissioner, but the only physical interaction I remember between the pair was on the very first episode of Smackdown, where it was Rock vs. Triple-H with Michaels as the referee. Michaels superkicked Rock when he was going for the People's Elbow, giving Triple-H the win, with Michaels turning heel and joining The Corporation.

[PunkStep]

There wansn't much of a window for it to happen, to be honest. You're really looking at 16 months from November 1996 - March 1998. For the first several months of this, both were face anyway. And then it was probably around the same time that Shawn turned heel and formed DX as it was when Rocky turned heel and joined the Nation, if not there was little time between I'd imagine. And from then on, both were heel until Shawn retired after WM14.

[King Pitcos]

There were probably loads more during the period where Shawn was the Commissioner, but the only physical interaction I remember between the pair was on the very first episode of Smackdown, where it was Rock vs. Triple-H with Michaels as the referee. Michaels superkicked Rock when he was going for the People's Elbow, giving Triple-H the win, with Michaels turning heel and joining The Corporation.

You've got mixed up there. Michaels turned heel and joined the Corporation about eight months earlier, helping The Rock beat X-Pac, I think. The Corporation (and Corporate Ministry) were gone by the time he turned on Rock in that Smackdown match. Triple H didn't have a faction at that point, though he reformed DX a couple of months later. And after that Smackdown turn, I don't think Michaels appeared again until another eight months or so later, when he was the ref for the Rock vs HHH Iron Man match.

 

There wansn't much of a window for it to happen, to be honest. You're really looking at 16 months from November 1996 - March 1998. For the first several months of this, both were face anyway. And then it was probably around the same time that Shawn turned heel and formed DX as it was when Rocky turned heel and joined the Nation, if not there was little time between I'd imagine. And from then on, both were heel until Shawn retired after WM14.

They could've had a match in the Gang Warz of the time. Remember when DX made out the Hart Foundation wrote "GO BACK TO SI-FUCKIN-NIG-NIGGERAGUA" on The Nation's lockers?

[PunkStep]

That makes sense, as at Judgement Day they built up the fact that HBK was the ref and that it was a huge handicap against The Rock given what happened last time. It was lost on me though, as I only started watching again regularly from around Sep 99.

[Adam South]

I'd of loved

 

Would have loved.

 

Don't be such a tosser.

 

Besides, it's considered correct use of English. It's an abbreviation of "I would" and therefore made perfect sense:

 

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/i'd

 

I don't think it's the "I'd" that he's complaining about. It's the 'of,' which should be 'have'. And there's no way anyone can justify it as correct English either. Pet hate of mine too to be honest, but I've never vocalised it before. Wish "I'd have" done it sooner!

[King Pitcos]

It was stupid of them to make a language where words sounded similar enough that utter morons could mix them up.

[Big Benny HG]

There were probably loads more during the period where Shawn was the Commissioner, but the only physical interaction I remember between the pair was on the very first episode of Smackdown, where it was Rock vs. Triple-H with Michaels as the referee. Michaels superkicked Rock when he was going for the People's Elbow, giving Triple-H the win, with Michaels turning heel and joining The Corporation.

You've got mixed up there. Michaels turned heel and joined the Corporation about eight months earlier, helping The Rock beat X-Pac, I think. The Corporation (and Corporate Ministry) were gone by the time he turned on Rock in that Smackdown match. Triple H didn't have a faction at that point, though he reformed DX a couple of months later. And after that Smackdown turn, I don't think Michaels appeared again until another eight months or so later, when he was the ref for the Rock vs HHH Iron Man match.

Ah, you're right. Damn my fading memory.

[A Screen Up]

In regards to as to whether Shawn Michaels' work was greater before or after his four-year hiatus, I'd say that his greatest in-ring work came after his return in 2002. Air Raid made a terrific argument for this a while ago when I asked who had the greatest body of work between Ric Flair and Michaels. Between 2002 and his retirement match a couple of years back, Michaels' selection of top-drawer matches outclasses any other wrestler.

 

From his Street Fight with Triple H, his effort in the Elimination Chamber, to his Wrestlemania performances against John Cena, Undertaker and Vince McMahon, nobody in the world came close to matching Shawn Michaels from an in-ring performance perspective.

[air_raid]

Really? I thought it was going to be a three way, but Shawn Michaels lobbied for it to be a one on one. He intended to get Foley vs. Austin, but instead accidentally got Foley kicked out of the main event.

 

You're right, in this case with my disclaimer of IIRC, I didn't R C. Probably should have actually read that chapter of his book before replying, I have it easily to hand.

 

That's right. Should HAVE.

[NEWM]

Sentimentally I'm tied to the 90s Michaels matches, because he was just so fucking world class week after week in one of my favourite periods of wrestling, if not my very favourite. 95 and 96 especially, his matches for me are beyond anything anybody from either major company was putting out, and despite the nancyboy character, the ECW mutants would have shit their collective keks if he'd have rocked up to fight in the arena. Plus, with Raw and his fairly regular appearances on Superstars, he was doing it seemingly every week with anybody they found kicking around. His David/Goliath stuff with Sid and Diesel was famous, but then he'd adapt that against types like Bundy, Mantaur or Bigelow and just visibly delight every fan in there (seeing as there was probably only about 800 in the buildings sometimes).

 

That said, post-2002 he added a dramatic element to his matches that again goes beyond anybody I've ever seen, ever. I don't think the in-ring is quite as dynamic, but the storytelling, fuck me, it's just on another planet. Some of his Wrestlemania matches are rightfully touted as wrestling masterpieces, but I'd also point to The Royal Rumble 2010 as possibly the greatest performance of his entire career. A truly mesmerising acting display that you can still get into out of context. It wasn't a one-off too, he did it at Survivor Series 03, Taboo Tuesday where he fought HHH with the gammy leg, and the Rated RKO triple threat from Feb 07 which all came into my head with no thought at all. I'd imagine there's loads more. The Rumble one was just the best.

 

He's the fucking best ever, is Shawn, but I actually find both eras pretty different stylistically and thus too different to pick between. However, the fact that he's compiled both eras is what makes him so ace, so for that reason I'd probably have to lean towards the post-02 run. Loads of guys do it once, very few do it twice, and virtually nobody does it as good/better the second time.

[air_raid]

Some of his Wrestlemania matches are rightfully touted as wrestling masterpieces, but I'd also point to The Royal Rumble 2010 as possibly the greatest performance of his entire career. A truly mesmerising acting display that you can still get into out of context. It wasn't a one-off too, he did it at Survivor Series 03, Taboo Tuesday where he fought HHH with the gammy leg, and the Rated RKO triple threat from Feb 07 which all came into my head with no thought at all.

 

Top instances there of "not Mania" Shawn performances that underscore his brilliance. I was also a massive fan of his match with Chris Masters at Unforgiven 2005, his run out with Orton at Survivors 07 (another different dynamic to a match they'd already put on before) , the part his bumping played in letting Goldberg look like a wrecking ball in SummerSlam 2003s Elimination Chamber, and some of the borderline-psychotic performances against Chris Jericho in 2008.

 

Even the out of the ring performances that embellished what had just happened or what was to come inside the ring were sublime, my own personal favourites being his moment with Austin in the wake of the aforementioned Survivors 03 match, which even though the naivest of fans surely didnt believe either before or after the match that Austin would actually leave (for any significant time), actually managed to make the preceding result seem like it really mattered, (pause for breath) and better still the moment after accepting his Slammy for Match of the Year 2009, he goes to leave, the gracious loser of the match he is accepting the award for, before realizing "the hell with this" and issuing the challenge which is the catalyst for one of the best stories ever told.

 

Shawn Michaels for me has contributed more excellence to American pro wrestling than any other.

[Chest Rockwell]

That said, post-2002 he added a dramatic element to his matches that again goes beyond anybody I've ever seen, ever. I don't think the in-ring is quite as dynamic, but the storytelling, fuck me, it's just on another planet. Some of his Wrestlemania matches are rightfully touted as wrestling masterpieces, but I'd also point to The Royal Rumble 2010 as possibly the greatest performance of his entire career. A truly mesmerising acting display that you can still get into out of context. It wasn't a one-off too, he did it at Survivor Series 03, Taboo Tuesday where he fought HHH with the gammy leg, and the Rated RKO triple threat from Feb 07 which all came into my head with no thought at all. I'd imagine there's loads more. The Rumble one was just the best.

 

You can appreciate that out of context?

 

Props to him for battling through the injury, but that was a fucking boring match.

[NEWM]

That said, post-2002 he added a dramatic element to his matches that again goes beyond anybody I've ever seen, ever. I don't think the in-ring is quite as dynamic, but the storytelling, fuck me, it's just on another planet. Some of his Wrestlemania matches are rightfully touted as wrestling masterpieces, but I'd also point to The Royal Rumble 2010 as possibly the greatest performance of his entire career. A truly mesmerising acting display that you can still get into out of context. It wasn't a one-off too, he did it at Survivor Series 03, Taboo Tuesday where he fought HHH with the gammy leg, and the Rated RKO triple threat from Feb 07 which all came into my head with no thought at all. I'd imagine there's loads more. The Rumble one was just the best.

 

You can appreciate that out of context?

 

Props to him for battling through the injury, but that was a fucking boring match.

 

I thought it was great, and I fucking hate HHH/Shawn Michaels matches normally. It could be a rose tinted one because I wasn't online much at the time and IIRC, I didn't know he was legit hurt. This made the whole thing even better. And as 15/20 minutes of somebody bashing somebody else in the leg goes, you'll never see a better exhibition of that.