What is British wrestling coming to?

[King Pitcos]

Sheep of the year.

 

How about a picture of little green men next time?

 

 

[DJ Kris]

why dont companies think more about BRANDING???

See, I think this. You have one group saying, "Just stick the word 'Wrestling' or 'American Wrestling' on your poster" but then that doesn't differentiate you from those shit-arses who do the same, and can actually be off-putting as said earlier in this thread, it's nothing like

[King Pitcos]

I doubt Vince sits in his office worried about RoH or Backyard Wrestling coming to town on a WWE night !

That line right there shows you've missed the point as many others seem to be doing. Is it really that hard for people to read a thread and try and take in what people are saying before wading in with their opinions? The reasons why this sort of thing is an issue have been pretty clearly explained by people with an inside knowledge of it. I don't know why people still have trouble getting their head round it.

 

At no point has this discussion been about competition.

You've missed what the fella meant, I think. McMahon doesn't sweat ROH or Frankie Backyard "killing his towns" because he knows his product is too strong -- too recognisable -- to be mistaken for them.

[DJ Kris]

You've missed what the fella meant, I think. McMahon doesn't sweat ROH or Frankie Backyard "killing his towns" because he knows his product is too strong -- too recognisable -- to be mistaken for them.

Yeah, but you can't compare WWE to Ravenhill's promotion. Vince IS Wrestling to many people, dispite his claims to be something else (but that's another matter) to make a comparison like that is grossly unfair. Ravenhill does not and isn't likely to have the benefit of hours of Worldwide TV and a Billion dollar marketing machine.

[Richie Freebird]

McMahon doesn't sweat ROH or Frankie Backyard "killing his towns" because he knows his product is too strong -- too recognisable -- to be mistaken for them.

 

Didn

[BillyWood]

why dont companies think more about BRANDING???

See, I think this. You have one group saying, "Just stick the word 'Wrestling' or 'American Wrestling' on your poster" but then that doesn't differentiate you from those shit-arses who do the same, and can actually be off-putting as said earlier in this thread, it's nothing like

[Richie Freebird]

Purely out of interest, what do Lucha Britania usually draw? I

[DJ Kris]

And I think that is the problem...it's not about 3 letters in a logo, it's the branding of the show, look at the Lucha Britannia show that does London and other regions doing pretty impressive numbers, that has tremendous branding. Calling a company SWE, FWA, EWW, 1PW isnt what real successful branding is. It's got to stand out from the norm and seem attractive within a concept.

 

In all forms of entertainment it's the product that sells however promoters build successful brands around a product to keep consumers coming back and eventually they build on their success, attracting more people and expanding.

 

Even though the above is the logical thing to do, independent british wrestling (or probably wrestling around the world at that level) isn't logical so isn't worth contemplating.

Absolutely right, but you have to get people through your doors first. Lucha Britannia is great because it's unique, but there's nothing wrong with doing a normal wrestling show either and when it's a normal good quality wrestling show you're putting on how do you stand out from a crappy show without first getting them through the doors?

 

There are certainly ways, you could try getting your main event guys to cut a promo on local radio, but that's not always possible if the station aren't interested or they want a ton of cash spending on advertsing too.

[King Pitcos]

Yeah, but you can't compare WWE to Ravenhill's promotion. Vince IS Wrestling to many people, dispite his claims to be something else (but that's another matter) to make a comparison like that is grossly unfair. Ravenhill does not and isn't likely to have the benefit of hours of Worldwide TV and a Billion dollar marketing machine.

But therein lies the problem. Ravenhill's brand is no different than the shitarse's brand. It's just a poster with unknowns on it saying "WRESTLING" -- I understand his frustration but if you're selling a generic product, there's not much you can do as long as the other fella's operating within the law (or as long as the law doesn't care). Hypothetically, say there's a better promoter with a better show than Ravenhill and he wants to run the same towns, should he tell Ravenhill to fuck off and stop killing his market?

 

Didn

[DJ Kris]

Yeah, but you can't compare WWE to Ravenhill's promotion. Vince IS Wrestling to many people, dispite his claims to be something else (but that's another matter) to make a comparison like that is grossly unfair. Ravenhill does not and isn't likely to have the benefit of hours of Worldwide TV and a Billion dollar marketing machine.

But therein lies the problem. Ravenhill's brand is no different than the shitarse's brand. It's just a poster with unknowns on it saying "WRESTLING" -- I understand his frustration but if you're selling a generic product, there's not much you can do as long as the other fella's operating within the law (or as long as the law doesn't care). Hypothetically, say there's a better promoter with a better show than Ravenhill and he wants to run the same towns, should he tell Ravenhill to fuck off and stop killing his market?

On the first point, yes there in no difference in the brand, which is the whole point as to why someone coming along doing the same thing but very, very badly is a problem. Ravenhill shouldn't have to change the style of his good shows just to promote something different.

 

On the second point, no he shouldn't tell Ravenhill to fuck off. Not just because Ravenhill was there first, but because while someone better could come along it doesn't mean Ravenhill is putting on shit shows. Again, this thread has never been about competition. Someone being better or worse than you mean's they competition, being a total shower of shit with no paperwork and untrained wrestlers mean's you are a problem. The two situations are not the same.

[IANdrewDiceClay]

Ravenhill shouldn't have to change the style of his good shows just to promote something different.

Of course he should. On a much larger scale, Vince had to dump Doink and Freddy Joe Floyd in favour of the Rock and Stone Cold because someone forced him into aiming his product at a different audience. If Ravenhill's style of promoting is dying on its arse compared to a shitarse fed, then he should make his promotion stand out a bit more. Its a better idea than confronting said "faggot" and getting the police on your arse.

[BillyWood]

And I think that is the problem...it's not about 3 letters in a logo, it's the branding of the show, look at the Lucha Britannia show that does London and other regions doing pretty impressive numbers, that has tremendous branding. Calling a company SWE, FWA, EWW, 1PW isnt what real successful branding is. It's got to stand out from the norm and seem attractive within a concept.

 

In all forms of entertainment it's the product that sells however promoters build successful brands around a product to keep consumers coming back and eventually they build on their success, attracting more people and expanding.

 

Even though the above is the logical thing to do, independent british wrestling (or probably wrestling around the world at that level) isn't logical so isn't worth contemplating.

Absolutely right, but you have to get people through your doors first. Lucha Britannia is great because it's unique, but there's nothing wrong with doing a normal wrestling show either and when it's a normal good quality wrestling show you're putting on how do you stand out from a crappy show without first getting them through the doors?

 

There are certainly ways, you could try getting your main event guys to cut a promo on local radio, but that's not always possible if the station aren't interested or they want a ton of cash spending on advertsing too.

 

Normal Wrestling show's can be branded, in a world were consumer choices are the highest they have ever been and finances are quite low it's all about having a USP (Unique Selling Point).

 

Wrestling shouldn't and to be fair isn't any different. That's why these shows draw between anywhere between 5-100 people on average.

[King Pitcos]

On the first point, yes there in no difference in the brand, which is the whole point as to why someone coming along doing the same thing but very, very badly is a problem. Ravenhill shouldn't have to change the style of his good shows just to promote something different.

Surely the market will dictate that.

 

On the second point, no he shouldn't tell Ravenhill to fuck off. Not just because Ravenhill was there first, but because while someone better could come along it doesn't mean Ravenhill is putting on shit shows. Again, this thread has never been about competition.

This thread is about another promoter running a show that can negatively impact Ravenhill's show's ability to draw. It doesn't matter whether you keep saying competition or not.

 

Someone being better or worse than you mean's they competition, being a total shower of shit with no paperwork and untrained wrestlers mean's you are a problem. The two situations are not the same.

What constitutes a trained wrestler, then? Unless you subscribe to all that wristband shite (and I don't think Ravenhill does), not many wrestlers are carrying a qualification around with them. It's just another way of saying "my roster's better than your roster" and someone else could come along and play that card against Ravenhill. Would they be in the wrong?

[Dirty Eddie]

Of course he should. On a much larger scale, Vince had to dump Doink and Freddy Joe Floyd in favour of the Rock and Stone Cold because someone forced him into aiming his product at a different audience. If Ravenhill's style of promoting is dying on its arse compared to a shitarse fed, then he should make his promotion stand out a bit more. Its a better idea than confronting said "faggot" and getting the police on your arse.

 

 

These situations are entirely different though.

 

If Ravenhill had a TV show where he could run Ads explaining the change in "Attitude" (like Vince did/does) if would be possible, but when UK local wrestling promotion amounts to ads in the local paper and posters/fliers there is only so much you can do.

 

You can't exactly put in big letters on your posters "Not the shit wrestling that was here last month, but REAL DECENT wrestling".

There is also nothing stopping shit shows puting up quite good posters (yeah, often they are paint-job wank), all it takes is one of your shitarse wrestler mates being ok at photoshop.

[Whiskey_Jim]

on the other hand, Ravenhill has been running the same area for long enough that he should have an established fanbase of his own that recognise his guys and the shows they put on. its all well and good blaming shitarses for venues getting ruined but if your not running a product that is distinguishale to the fans after years of promoting the same area then its you in the wrong not someone else having a crack at promoting (whether they are crap or not). historically, wrestling has always had a nice habit of having its weak promotions die eventually and eventually shitarse promoters will run out of money and stop running shows. I cant honestly condone what Ravenhill is saying on the basis that he has plenty of time to make his patch his own.