BritFan Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 Just as the topic states, who do you feel makes a good heel in 2011 compared to the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whiskey_Jim Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 honestly, either being terrible (because the most important thing is to be hated so the fans love it when you lose) or exactly the same things that made a good heel in the 80's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members tom Posted September 17, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted September 17, 2011 I think we're so far down the road in terms of people knowing that it's all fake that it's so very hard these days for someone to be a heel in the true sense of the word. It's even harder if you consider that most heels actually get some element of support from the audience. In a way, the dynamics of being a heel have changed a lot since the 80's, as even if someone is able to get the heat and get roundly booed on TV most nights they will never be truly hated in any kind of constructive way which doesn't involve people simply tuning out to avoid them.  So therefore, you need to be able to really work the crowd in front of you and unfortunately a lot of people simply resort to cheap heat which doesn't build them up as a heel in any sort of way that is conducive to long-term success as a heel. You need to know how the audience works in order to really get under their skin and someone who does this well is Wade Barrett; he has managed to pretty much be a consistent heel that doesn't get much positive response from any section of the audience, although the way he has been booked as firstly a threat to the very existence of WWE as we know it and more recently as someone who just wants to make lots of cash has played a big part in this  And this does march us in to the very crux of being a successful heel these days; there are certain things that superstars can do themselves in terms of creating some heat for themselves but a lot of it will come down to the way they are booked to act and how much that booking taps into people's emotions. It's been touched on a lot here already but one of the best elements that a heel can be booked to have is that in their own eyes they are completely in the right and that they truly believe in what they have to say. Once again this can come down to booking, and especially long term booking. If a character has a rich history of past feuds, interactions, actions etc., then it is easier to paint a realistic picture when it comes to turning someone heel.  A recent example would be Mark Henry; whilst in no way has the on-off booking of him over the last 15 years been a deliberate ploy to make him seem more interesting these days, but his history of various gimmicks and a tonne of aborted pushes really add fuel to the fire of resentment that burn underneath the big guy right now. If the same had been attempted with someone like Big Zeke, for example, then it wouldn't of resounded with audiences like the Henry push is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbo9292 Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 It all is dependent on the audience's in my opinion. Young children are more likely to hate you if you hate their home town, go to shake a hand but reject, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PowerButchi Posted September 17, 2011 Moderators Share Posted September 17, 2011 A great heel is a great heel for ever. A heel has to feel justified. Mark Henry is so effective right now, because he feels he's in the right. He's been around a long time, and feels he's never been given the opportunities he thinks he should, so is making his point. While the odd variable will change, the theme of someone feeling justified in their acts, no matter how heinous, is what makes a great heel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted September 17, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted September 17, 2011 For me, its the same as it always was. I couldnt have been the only one who got really excited when each member of Team WWE was coming out to face the Nexus at SummerSlam 2010. When Daniel Bryan tapped one of them out, the people were loving it because he was beating a group of people who were untouchable. Nexus were over for a period. Shame they didnt have better people in the roles. But the things Barrett and the Nexus were doing were tradition heel stuff. Like when Skip Sheffield belted a production member or when they surrounded their victims before giving them a good kicking. People will buy into you if your doing things they dont like as fans. I've known its fake for years, but you can still have sympathy for the babyfaces. I want to see Triple H destroy CM Punk this week because I feel as a fan he has it coming from HHH after all the shit he said about his wife. I know all that was fed to him by his wife backstage probably, but it still annoys me watching it on TV and the only justification I want is to see Triple H beat him with his rubber hammer in a fake fight. Also for me, giving off a true to life feel that you might actually be like that away from the cameras. Its what I liked about Batista. His promos, his walk, his ringstyle, his outfit all connected and made perfect sense. He seemed to have a swagger and a above it all feel about him. There's plenty of good heels about. Bully Ray and Austin Aries are wasted in TNA, because they are brilliant at what they do. Â Its the babyfaces I find the worst personally. CM Punk is one of the worst headline babyfaces I've ever seen. I have no idea what his character is or what he's talking about most the time. John Morrison is just ... there. I dont think anyone knows why we cheer for him. Kofi and Evan seem just pleased to be there. Randy Orton's good in spite of how he's booked. People just love him. And he doesnt talk much, just seems to just wrestle every week and people like it. He doesnt do catchphrases, he doesnt clap his hands or smile. He just does his thing. People like that about him, because he has presence and a natural charisma about him. Its what seperates your Ortons from your Morrisons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fye Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 A great heel is a great heel for ever. A heel has to feel justified. Mark Henry is so effective right now, because he feels he's in the right. He's been around a long time, and feels he's never been given the opportunities he thinks he should, so is making his point. While the odd variable will change, the theme of someone feeling justified in their acts, no matter how heinous, is what makes a great heel. Â Sme good posts here but this one is right on the money for me and Mark Henry is your perfect example. I have had apathy for the guy for over a decade and yet at a time when I have apathy for virtually everything in WWE this guy has got me hating him for all the right reasons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Dearly Devoted Dexter Posted September 17, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted September 17, 2011 The same things that always made a good heel, except it's twice as hard nowadays to get heat, because of changes in society. As Bobby Heenan put it a few years ago, you've got terrorist atrocities, foreign wars, serial killers, economic depression on the news every night - in such a world it's hard to get worked up over a guy pulling the tights! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted September 17, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted September 17, 2011 I think Bobby Heenan's off his tits with that comment. Cristiano Ronaldo's hated for cheating. And he isnt a bad bloke I imagine. And its not like there wasnt war's, riots, unemployment and terrible things happening in 1986. Your hated as it pertains to your field of entertainment. People arent thinking of world affairs watching wrestling. When people want to watch to see Floyd Mayweather get his head smacked in, they arent thinking "well, he wouldnt blow a train up, so he isnt a bad lad." Its a ridiculous comment I think. Wrestlers were never on par with terrorists when they were super over. In 1998, nobody was throwing acid at Dude Love or Kane. You are there to emotionally invest in the characters. Not to compare them to terrorists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWEisJericho Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 A couple of years ago we were overrun with great heels, Jericho, Orton, Edge & JBL could have all laid claim to being the best heel of the decade as they were flying, Â Orton during the HHH Wrestlemania fued was redhot punting people everywhere, Jericho had hit hot with his 'better than you' gimmick and Edge was just Edge at the top of his game, Â None of them were doing anything ground breaking but all were massively over, its the babyfaces that were and still are the worry, no one is loved and gets over (Cena with the kids apart) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members ColinBollocks Posted September 17, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted September 17, 2011 I agree the babyfaces are rubbish, in both companies. They're either whining about everything (TNA, CM Punk etc) or smile everything off because they are great guys (John Cena, John Morrison etc). It's hard to relate to any of them. They had something with CM Punk for a month but that's fallen of a cliff and we're now waiting to see if his parachute is working. Â Come to think of it, the only good babyface in wrestling is Jeff Hardy (if you don't include The Rock's part-time shift). I don't know what it is about him but he has the ability to make the audience care about him, like no one else. It's why I want him back in WWE, he brings life to the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Devon Malcolm Posted September 17, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted September 17, 2011 The same things that always made a good heel, except it's twice as hard nowadays to get heat, because of changes in society. As Bobby Heenan put it a few years ago, you've got terrorist atrocities, foreign wars, serial killers, economic depression on the news every night - in such a world it's hard to get worked up over a guy pulling the tights! Â All or most of these things have been in the news for decades so they're a bit of a shite excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van Dammer Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 A great heel is a great heel for ever. A heel has to feel justified. Mark Henry is so effective right now, because he feels he's in the right. He's been around a long time, and feels he's never been given the opportunities he thinks he should, so is making his point. While the odd variable will change, the theme of someone feeling justified in their acts, no matter how heinous, is what makes a great heel. Â Not really, Mark Henrys a heel because hes pretty unlikeable as a character, he doesnt really have much charisma or charm, he doesnt look like much more than a quite overweight strong man and isnt able to put on more than quite a limited type of match. He has a stigma (right or wrong) that he is an over paid, poor worker whos been around far too long so the older fan wont get into him as a cult hero and the younger audience wont take to him because of his look, his lack of flair and the fact he just doesnt look like a nice guy. Â Sometimes people think far too in depth with a characters back story and justifications when wrestling is supposed to run in a cycle by which we forget about most of their past. Â To answer the original question, nothing. Its all down to an individual situation, theres no sure fire way of making a good heel or a good face. Its practically impossible to make a good heel without having to or getting the chance to turn them unless its someone like Mark Henry or X-Pac who have been around so long that fans just dont have any real energy for them anymore and they automatically become whatever is booked of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Pitcos Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 Not really, Mark Henrys a heel because hes pretty unlikeable as a character, he doesnt really have much charisma or charm, he doesnt look like much more than a quite overweight strong man and isnt able to put on more than quite a limited type of match. He has a stigma (right or wrong) that he is an over paid, poor worker whos been around far too long so the older fan wont get into him as a cult hero and the younger audience wont take to him because of his look, his lack of flair and the fact he just doesnt look like a nice guy. Absolute bollocks. Henry was extremely popular for the year or two he was a babyface. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Fox Piss Posted September 18, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted September 18, 2011 Henry should be nowhere near a main event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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