Rey_Piste Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Brock was a guy who I had never heard of before he came to the UFC and he got dropped right in the top of the division. He did well with his limited skillset to get to the point where he won the title. I just think that his battle with diverticulitis and the following surgery took a lot more out of him than was let on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Total Package Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 couldn't do football, couldn't do MMA, back to WWE surely? Â Couldn't? well I admit he didn't win the NFL, but 2 out 3 championships aint bad, unless your idea of being successful is not getting to the top of your career, I wish I could fail like Brock does. Â Anyway I enjoyed the event don't usually watch UFC, mostly just DREAM which I need to find a torrent of, but some good fights last night, diaz vs cerrone was class. Â I like both Lesnar and Overeem so the outcome was never going to bother me, but I hope Overeem has a great time in UFC, as for Lesnar he will probably show up for WWE in a few years, I dont think he will ever comeback full time, but work a WM program at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Astro Hollywood Posted December 31, 2011 Moderators Share Posted December 31, 2011 Someone put Frank Mir on suicide watch. Â No rubber match for you, fatty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members herbie747 Posted December 31, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted December 31, 2011 Lesnar's fans are Just Bleed bellends who are bad for the sport Yeah, all the extra hundreds of thousands of PPV buys his fans generated wrecked the sport. Great point - you know your shit. You should run UFC. Â couldn't do football, couldn't do MMA, back to WWE surely? He did do MMA. If I try something with limited experience, try it at the top level, win a world title doing it, get millions of people to pay to see me do it, and make millions of $$$ doing it; I'd consider it a successful venture. You wouldn't? Â Regardless of how good he was in hindsight, dismissing what he's done, and the interest & money he generated for the sport with his experience level, is retarded. He was the company's top draw, FFS. How can you even imply that being the top draw at something means you "couldn't" do it? It makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted December 31, 2011 Author Share Posted December 31, 2011 The question is, what percentage of those fans that Lesnar drew in will remain now that he's gone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members herbie747 Posted December 31, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted December 31, 2011 The question is, what percentage of those fans that Lesnar drew in will remain now that he's gone? Â That question is stupid & irrelevant. How does it in any way negate the money he drew while he was there? Let's say none of those people remain; how was it harmful that they paid their money & bought PPVs in the past? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted December 31, 2011 Author Share Posted December 31, 2011 The question is, what percentage of those fans that Lesnar drew in will remain now that he's gone? Â That question is stupid & irrelevant. How does it in any way negate the money he drew while he was there? Let's say none of those people remain; how was it harmful that they paid their money & bought PPVs in the past? The only thing that's stupid & irrelevant is you. Did I say that this negated the money he drew when he was there? Or that is was harmful that they paid money to see him? No, I didn't. Â I'm simply wondering how many of those fans will stick around. I'd certainly hope that a good percentage of them are now UFC fans who will continue to purchase PPV's after Lesnar has gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members herbie747 Posted December 31, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted December 31, 2011 Was your post in reply to me? Â John Galt was saying that Lesnar "failed" at MMA. I defended Lesnar's achievements. You then posted "Yeah, but the question is..." - I assumed it was in reply to me defending Lesnar, and you were implying that if the fans he brought in don't stick around, then he's done more harm than good. Hence my response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted December 31, 2011 Author Share Posted December 31, 2011 Was your post in reply to me? John Galt was saying that Lesnar "failed" at MMA. I defended Lesnar's achievements. You then posted "Yeah, but the question is..." - I assumed it was in reply to me defending Lesnar, and you were implying that if the fans he brought in don't stick around, then he's done more harm than good. Hence my response. My post was saying that the real question isn't whether Lesnar was bad for the sport, or if his fans money was no good, it's how many people that he turned to the sport will remain fans of the sport.  That's what matters long term, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members herbie747 Posted December 31, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted December 31, 2011 Was your post in reply to me? John Galt was saying that Lesnar "failed" at MMA. I defended Lesnar's achievements. You then posted "Yeah, but the question is..." - I assumed it was in reply to me defending Lesnar, and you were implying that if the fans he brought in don't stick around, then he's done more harm than good. Hence my response. My post was saying that the real question isn't whether Lesnar was bad for the sport, or if his fans money was no good, it's how many people that he turned to the sport will remain fans of the sport.  That's what matters long term, no?  Yes, it'd be great if he created new fans; but it's irrelevant to his legacy IMO; I was discussing his personal legacy & stating that he didn't "fail" at MMA. I was making a point to John Galt - you then raised a different point but gave me the impression it was in reply to my point.  Hence the confusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted December 31, 2011 Author Share Posted December 31, 2011 Ah, right. Fair enough. Â Yeah, it has nothing to do with his legacy, but it's more important in my opinion. Lesnar will go down as someone who did a lot in a short space of time, but who couldn't quite cut it at the very top level. Â That's not a slight on him, of course, as he's facing guys with years of experience at such a level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members herbie747 Posted December 31, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted December 31, 2011 Ah, right. Fair enough. Yeah, it has nothing to do with his legacy, but it's more important in my opinion. Lesnar will go down as someone who did a lot in a short space of time, but who couldn't quite cut it at the very top level.  That's not a slight on him, of course, as he's facing guys with years of experience at such a level.  I fully agree with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Sloan Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Ah, right. Fair enough. Yeah, it has nothing to do with his legacy, but it's more important in my opinion. Lesnar will go down as someone who did a lot in a short space of time, but who couldn't quite cut it at the very top level.  That's not a slight on him, of course, as he's facing guys with years of experience at such a level.  But to be fair  Got Sonnen'd after flooring former world champion Frank Mir Broke the orbital bone and retired veteran Heath Herring Destroyed former world champion Frank Mir on the mat Defeated one of the greatest of all time Randy Couture to win the UFC belt Seriously Ill, Nearly Died Came back from deep water and beat the undefeated Interim Champ Shain Carwin (Who apparently was the hardest hitter in the UFC) Lost to at the time undefeated UFC Heavyweight Champion Cain Valasquez Life Saving Opperation Lost to current dream/k1/strikeforce heavyweight champion alister Overeem  In abreviated form that is one HELL of a ride. I am sure you can beef up each point too, not sure of the time line or acuracy, but it isn't far off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted December 31, 2011 Author Share Posted December 31, 2011 And those are all very admirable accomplishments. It still doesn't change the fact that he was fast-tracked to the top of the division and couldn't quite cut it there when he faced the best heavyweights of this era. He's on that 2nd tier alongside guys like Carwin & Mir, which is no bad thing. He did superbly for a guy with his experience though, that's for sure. Â I think this excerpt from an article I read on his career sums it up best; Â Lesnar was a man who came to MMA relatively late in life and now seems intent on leaving early. He was memorable, even if he fell short of true athletic greatness, and he brought mainstream attention to the sport at an important time in MMA's evolution. Â Maybe when we look back on his brief career, that's what we'll remember most. Not that he dominated or even that he stuck around long enough to find out what he was fully capable of, but that he did a lot in a very little time, and he left the sport in better condition than he found it. Maybe that's enough for him to feel satisfied in retirement. Maybe it has to be. And sure, maybe all the money he made in the process doesn't hurt either. Â It's also worth considering that had Lesnar continued to fight things wouldn't have gotten any easier for him in the years to come. We have Overeem in the division already, and when Strikeforce closes its heavyweight division we'll see the likes of Barnett, Cormier & Del Rosario come over to the UFC. Â He maybe knew there was a danger he'd get lost in the shuffle, especially with two losses back to back already. Best to call it a day when he's still as close to the top as he's going to get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Sloan Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 And those are all very admirable accomplishments. It still doesn't change the fact that he was fast-tracked to the top of the division and couldn't quite cut it there when he faced the best heavyweights of this era. He's on that 2nd tier alongside guys like Carwin & Mir, which is no bad thing. He did superbly for a guy with his experience though, that's for sure. I think this excerpt from an article I read on his career sums it up best;  Lesnar was a man who came to MMA relatively late in life and now seems intent on leaving early. He was memorable, even if he fell short of true athletic greatness, and he brought mainstream attention to the sport at an important time in MMA's evolution.  Maybe when we look back on his brief career, that's what we'll remember most. Not that he dominated or even that he stuck around long enough to find out what he was fully capable of, but that he did a lot in a very little time, and he left the sport in better condition than he found it. Maybe that's enough for him to feel satisfied in retirement. Maybe it has to be. And sure, maybe all the money he made in the process doesn't hurt either.  It's also worth considering that had Lesnar continued to fight things wouldn't have gotten any easier for him in the years to come. We have Overeem in the division already, and when Strikeforce closes its heavyweight division we'll see the likes of Barnett, Cormier & Del Rosario come over to the UFC.  He maybe knew there was a danger he'd get lost in the shuffle, especially with two losses back to back already. Best to call it a day when he's still as close to the top as he's going to get.  Yeah very acurate, it just feels almost like people are saying he was pushed there when he didn't deserve it. He took out Mir, Carwin, Couture, Herring and won the heavyweight belt, including being very ill that is solidifys why he got there when he did, but ultimately you are also correct that Dos Santos/Valesquez/Overeem are the new era of heavyweight and it would not have got any easier and rather be a top guy who bows out after a main event, than a guy who is on the cards and then retires/cuts when nobody really cares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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