RIOT!

[The King Of Swing]

Are we allowed to call the rich and very privileged ones who took part in this scum that Millionaires Daughter for example who could of walked into the shop she looted and bought one of everything without it even making a dent in her/her daddy's bank account

 

Pretty sure this point was brought up earlier in the thread and was ignored.

 

Gotta admit that the tabloid stereotypes being shattered has made me chuckle of course though people are no selling the fact that even the rich were on the rampage and are still banging on about benefits and evicting council tenents.

 

The British public are fucking morons.

[Van Dammer]

I'm not, but you made a post before that made lots of sense, just don't see how you think you will earn anyones respect by calling them scum. It's not bullshit whatsoever, but cheers for being so polite.

 

Why hes trying to earn anyones respect? Its been quite clearly pointed out what people mean when describing luxury looters as 'scum'.

 

You've probably got one GCSE to your name and have a grasp of basic spelling and grammar. I wonder what some of their CV's look like.

 

Whos fault is that? They all had access to education, yeah it might not have been the best school but every child is given the opportunity to learn to read and write and to pass GCSE's.

[Ross]

Whos fault is that? They all had access to education, yeah it might not have been the best school but every child is given the opportunity to learn to read and write and to pass GCSE's.

 

Not the same opportunity, there are HUGE differences between schools in certain areas. Some schools have a majority of children that come out with their GCSE's, some have a majority that don't. You're not telling me that this is down to the kids are you? Absolutely ridiculous.

[Ross]

If that's the case then you can get ESOL courses for free if English is your second language or basic adult numeracy and literacy courses for free if English is your mother tongue if you want to enrol on them and attend.

 

What I don't get, is that if you have all these direct and simple answers for everything, why would we be having these problems in the first place. Why do we have millions of people with low levels of literacy and numeracy? If it's as easy as you're saying, which I think you know it's not, I just can't understand why we'd have this situation.

 

I think some of you need to wake up and realise that there is a MASSIVE gap in equality in this country. We are one of the worst countries in Europe when it comes down to things like literacy and numeracy.

[Van Dammer]

Not the same opportunity, there are HUGE differences between schools in certain areas. Some schools have a majority of children that come out with their GCSE's, some have a majority that don't. You're not telling me that this is down to the kids are you? Absolutely ridiculous.

 

Youre right, im not telling you that. Of course there are differences but a school is a school and a child still gets the chance to go to a proper school with proper teaches wanting to teach them everything they need to learn. And if a child finds that he doesnt get the one to one education or quality of education due to his peers and the school he has plenty of opportunity to go for FREE to education centres to learn. Its all well and good saying when you are 16 that you were failed by the system but not when you declined the opportunity to push yourself in earlier years.

 

And you ask Johnnyboy why it isnt that easy? I was lazy as fuck when I was a kid and didnt give a shit about learning at school and the majority of kids are the same, the difference is how much you educate yourself and do the leg work yourself to further your learning.

[Dead Mike]

You can say it's laziness when the resources are already there or you could say it's an innate sense of hopelessness that despite the resources being there it's not worth wasting your time on. None of it will make a blind bit of difference anyway. Whether this is true or not is irrelevant, as long as this is the general perception then it's as good as gospel. If you believe you're already fucked then you might as well get what you can while you can get it, things can't get any worse.

[Van Dammer]

You can say it's laziness when the resources are already there or you could say it's an innate sense of hopelessness that despite the resources being there it's not worth wasting your time on. None of it will make a blind bit of difference anyway. Whether this is true or not is irrelevant, as long as this is the general perception then it's as good as gospel. If you believe you're already fucked then you might as well get what you can while you can get it, things can't get any worse.

 

If this is the case is it really 'the systems' fault? If a child isn't pushed and motivated by his parents to aim for the top and everyone around him has the same attitude then who can stop that happening? Everyone has to make the best of what they are given and if you arnt prepared to do that then you cant level blame at anyone but yourself. Unless you are saying that somebody that has pushed themselves to learn, has all the necessary skills and has natural ability but isnt going to be given a job because they come from a bad area?

[JNLister]

Referring back to the argument that government cuts are necessary and you can't consistently spend spend more as a government than you take in, this chart is pretty telling.

 

During the 18 years the Conservatives were in office under Thatcher and Major, they spend more than they earned in 16 years. Labour actually ran a budget surplus during it's first four years in office. From 2002 to 2007 it ran a deficit, at slightly lower annual levels than the Major government.

 

In 2008, the deficit rocketed. I don't know what could have happened in 2008 to make that happen. Presumably Labour suddenly decided to go on an irresponsible spending spree.

[Majik]

You can say it's laziness when the resources are already there or you could say it's an innate sense of hopelessness that despite the resources being there it's not worth wasting your time on. None of it will make a blind bit of difference anyway. Whether this is true or not is irrelevant, as long as this is the general perception then it's as good as gospel. If you believe you're already fucked then you might as well get what you can while you can get it, things can't get any worse.

 

Gibberish. There are plenty of people out there who choose to think their situation is hopeless as it's easier to blame than to take some responsibility and work hard to get somewhere. the very idea that your geography/social economy deems your employability is hilarious.

 

I do, however, agree that asprations need to be concentrated on and shown to generations that anyone can be anything if they bust their hump to do it.

[Burchill's Buddy]

Gibberish. There are plenty of people out there who choose to think their situation is hopeless as it's easier to blame than to take some responsibility and work hard to get somewhere. the very idea that your geography/social economy deems your employability is hilarious.

 

I do, however, agree that asprations need to be concentrated on and shown to generations that anyone can be anything if they bust their hump to do it.

Perhaps that's another problem. In that the majority of 'role models' today aren't people who've busted their asses working hard over many years to get where they are, they're no-name beautiful people who've had a lucky break on a reality TV show and gone from nothing to something overnight. Doesn't really send a great message about the importance of a good work ethic

[Ross]

Gibberish. There are plenty of people out there who choose to think their situation is hopeless as it's easier to blame than to take some responsibility and work hard to get somewhere. the very idea that your geography/social economy deems your employability is hilarious.

 

I do, however, agree that asprations need to be concentrated on and shown to generations that anyone can be anything if they bust their hump to do it.

 

Absolute and utter bullshit mate. It is PROVEN by facts and evidence that your social background affects your employment chances/living standards/quality of life. EVIDENCE, not just living in some sort of American Dream scenario - why do you think they're more fucked than we are?

[Van Dammer]

Absolute and utter bullshit mate. It is PROVEN by facts and evidence that your social background affects your employment chances/living standards/quality of life. EVIDENCE, not just living in some sort of American Dream scenario - why do you think they're more fucked than we are?

 

Of course it does. But the FACT still remains that if you have the savvy and the desire to become something then you have every opportunity to do so. These kids are making excuses, they fucked off school, didnt give a shit about it and didnt think it was important, probably because they wernt told otherwise by their families. They arnt going to local colleges and free education centres to learn and improve themselves (London incidentally has had more spent on developing colleges in the last ten years than anywhere else in the country) and instead have looked for blame and excuses for their shit attitudes.

 

Yeah maybe they do need educating but you cant educate somebody whos not prepared to listen. Horses to water and drinking, that sort of thing.

[Dead Mike]

If this is the case is it really 'the systems' fault? If a child isn't pushed and motivated by his parents to aim for the top and everyone around him has the same attitude then who can stop that happening? Everyone has to make the best of what they are given and if you arnt prepared to do that then you cant level blame at anyone but yourself. Unless you are saying that somebody that has pushed themselves to learn, has all the necessary skills and has natural ability but isnt going to be given a job because they come from a bad area?

 

This is the thing, is it the system's fault? Yes. Is it the parents fault? Yes. Is it the individuals fault? Yes. There's no one simple thing that we can just change & make everything alright. It's a complex issue that, IMO will take a generation to fix, if it can or more importantly, if the people that can institgate change actually want to?

 

Majik - You seem to be looking at a very simplistic 'one size fits all' argument. It's the same innane argument that the politicians are putting forward that 'There's plenty of poor people that didn't riot so it must just be greed & criminality'. Guess what? Not everyone reacts to the same situation in the same way. Some people will be vocal, some people will internalise their frustrations & some people will lash out.

 

BTW, I'm talking about the riots in London here, not the copycat trouble that hit Liverpool, Manc etc. I believe these are two very different cases & shouldn't be lumped in together for convienience sake by the media/politicians.

[Majik]

Absolute and utter bullshit mate. It is PROVEN by facts and evidence that your social background affects your employment chances/living standards/quality of life. EVIDENCE, not just living in some sort of American Dream scenario - why do you think they're more fucked than we are?

 

Woah! I'm not saying it doesn't effect it, I'm saying it doesn't deem your employability - completely different. And ofcourse your social background affects your living standards / quality of life initially.

 

And Dm, I'm not being simplistic - I'm applying what knowledge I have of the situation as best I can. If we didn't give a general view, then we'd be here for fricking weeks, wouldn't we? You're bang on the money that it is a complex issue, but that doesn't mean it can't be sorted, and it also doesn't mean that we shouldn't point out the shirkers from the ones who deserve an opportunity. And maybe that is where my frustration lies - there are opportunities out there, and everyone can take them if they really, really wanted to. The system is in place, and life is such that some people are going to have to try harder than other to achieve the same or less; however, they've got a chance to achieve much more too - which bring s me back to aspirations...

[Van Dammer]

This is the thing, is it the system's fault? Yes. Is it the parents fault? Yes. Is it the individuals fault? Yes. There's no one simple thing that we can just change & make everything alright. It's a complex issue that, IMO will take a generation to fix, if it can or more importantly, if the people that can institgate change actually want to?

 

I agree and I believe the issues are too difficult for a politician elected by the public to discuss. The matter of over-population as a whole will never be tackled, the welfare society will never properly be managed, the reason in which people have children with no money will never be openly debated to a conclusion and of course how any of these problems will actually be rectified will never be done by a modern politician as he wants a job and the matters are too divisive. The fact that mentality has gradually changed in Britain too is a problem, no longer are we a hard working, get what you pay for nation. We are a government dependant charity case in most parts who cant afford it anymore.

 

I was speaking to a South African at work yesterday and he said that he rang his parents to say he was OK after the main night of rioting and they asked why it all happened and he explained about the guy who was shot by police and there was uproar and he said they simply couldnt believe that anyone complained with our Police shot dead a man in broad daylight out in public who was carrying a loaded gun. When he said it like that it really made me think of how things have changed in Britain and how helpless Police are these days. He didnt even mention that the guy in question was a well known drug dealer with an arrest warrant to his name.