Trannies

[FLips]

My mum knows/knew one that I met maybe once or twice as a kid. I think he ended up moving to London because people round here used to be dicks to him. Can't imagine London being a whole lot better.

[Carbomb]

Why should gays and lesbians feel solidarity towards them? Why do they get lumped in together in "the community" at all? Simply because they're all different from the norm?

No, because the issues affecting them are largely the same: they suffer abuse and marginalisation by a society which has, for most of its history, condemned or refused to accept a gender identity outside heterosexuality.

 

I know you're opposed to supposed "unsolicited championing", but that's not the case here. The vast majority of LGBTQ literature, campaigning and material doesn't advocate recognition of gay rights, it advocates rights and recognition of gender identities and sexual orientations outside heterosexuality; Pride marches are largely about recognition of an individual's right to an identity alternative to established norms, which is why it's so much more objectionable when gays or lesbians, who are part of a community which experiences discrimination on a regular basis, treat transgender people in the same way straight people have treated them. Simply put, they should know better.

So in other words... "Yes."

 

Not really. That paragraph I've posted, not to mention the point patdfb brought up about Stonewall, points out several reasons why the answer is not just a black-and-white "yes" or "no".

[Carbomb]

My mum knows/knew one that I met maybe once or twice as a kid. I think he ended up moving to London because people round here used to be dicks to him. Can't imagine London being a whole lot better.

 

Londoners are dicks, but generally when it comes to things like discrimination, they tend to be less problematic. Basically, they don't care what ethnicity, colour, religion or gender you are, they'll treat you like a cunt regardless.

[mikey]

My mum knows/knew one that I met maybe once or twice as a kid. I think he ended up moving to London because people round here used to be dicks to him. Can't imagine London being a whole lot better.

 

Londoners are dicks, but generally when it comes to things like discrimination, they tend to be less problematic. Basically, they don't care what ethnicity, colour, religion or gender you are, they'll treat you like a cunt regardless.

 

Damn straight.

[Carbomb]

My mum knows/knew one that I met maybe once or twice as a kid. I think he ended up moving to London because people round here used to be dicks to him. Can't imagine London being a whole lot better.

 

Londoners are dicks, but generally when it comes to things like discrimination, they tend to be less problematic. Basically, they don't care what ethnicity, colour, religion or gender you are, they'll treat you like a cunt regardless.

 

Damn straight.

 

Yeah. If we were from another city, I'd put my hand up for a hi-five, but we're from London, so I'll just say "Fack orff, yew cahnt".

[mikey]

Unfortunately, I don't speak like that. Blud.

[patiirc]

For those of you who do have mates that are transwhatnot, how was the subject first broached when you met them? And do they go in the men's or women's toilets if you're at a pub or restaurant or whatever?

 

Pat, you seem more immersed in this stuff than most so you might have some insight into the following. I can somewhat wrap my head around the people who are taking steps to get in line physically with how they feel mentally, but I can't fathom at all the people who just decide they want to be called a man or a woman without making any changes to become one. The "I'm a woman! Now I'm gonna go and wank my cock until sperm comes out of it" or "I'm a man. Rub my clit!" people. What's their deal? I don't get how you can be so tied to your dick or fanny when you're professing to belong to the gender that has the opposite bits.

 

If I'm reading that right you are on about Fetishistic Transvestism, rather than a Transexual. Much though not all transvestitism has a large sexual element in quite a few cases including a condition where people phantasise there altered form and sexualise that ( fall in love with their other gender project!). and as a result arent transexual, because they cannot or dont want to fully lose their birth gender.

 

Some transvestites will become transexuals, but not necessarily always for the right reasons, and creates more of a nightmare when they are trapped in a new body when the 'fetishistic excitement' has worn off. Some will start as transvestites and realise they are transexual and be fine with accepting their gender incongruence.

 

Most transexuals I've met largely don't give a shit about the sexual side ( doesnt stop them falling in love and having relationships and what have you) its just they prefer to live as their chosen gender 1st and formost. Because of the risks involved in Gender Reassignment surgery, some will keep their birth genitalia ( male genitalia shrinks with hormones, and kills sperm production basically making it redudent for many its not something that is sexually significant) because of the surgical risks Blood loss and vaginal prolapse arent uncommon as well as cost. Some will have sex , but not always in the straight sex kind of way. (as a constructed Vagina usually is cosmetic rather than practical and dependent on the state of the donor material. Ie size of the penis) again this might not extend to everyone, just the ones I've known. Yes there are issues about not having the required genitalia, but for a T person the bits that they have dont define their gender nor their sexuality if that makes sense.

 

For example. one pre op TS had many girlfriends. I got talking to one of them though another mate, turns out she wanted to be an F2M T person. I didnt ask explicitly about the sex but both said that it wasnt always about being physical. Its hard to describe but as long as they believe and are able to live as the gender they should be, things that people consider such as sex, sexuality and so on, dont seem to be as important in the grandscheme of things, and will often come along later. Such as M2F not considering Men as sexually attractive until long after transition, prefering to be lesbian in the interim.

 

As for toilets.. Gender of Presentation always ( failure to do so will fail the RLT test)

 

Hope that helps

[Carbomb]

Unfortunately, I don't speak like that. Blud.

 

Ah, my mistake, bredrin. Thought you were an old-school Cockney, being a West Ham fan and all. I's from norf London too, blud. Near SmokeSoapBar hope_neil_dies_tbh's ends bruv.

[Chris B]

Transsexuals appear to have a pretty bad time of it. They don't just have to deal with the bigotry and resultant abuse from straight or "normal" people, they also seem to be treated like the lowest rung of society within the LGBTQ community as well. A lot of gays and lesbians treat them like shit, it's really rather objectionable - you'd think there'd be more solidarity amongst the community, but it's just not the case.

Why should gays and lesbians feel solidarity towards them? Why do they get lumped in together in "the community" at all? Simply because they're all different from the norm?

 

MULTIPLE CHOICE ANSWER TIME

 

A - Because they're subject to similar abuse

 

B - Because, if you don't believe in their rights to assert their own gender, a large number of transgender people are gay

 

C - Because they should be preaching tolerance and sexual equality, on the basis that they fucking campaigned for it

 

D - Because transgender people lack the ability to really be in the closet

 

E - All of the above.

[Chris B]

For those of you who do have mates that are transwhatnot, how was the subject first broached when you met them?

 

"I don't want to be rude, but I don't want to get it wrong, either - do you prefer to be referred to as 'he' or she'?" - and also, I asked how much hassle she gets when she's out in Leeds.

 

And do they go in the men's or women's toilets if you're at a pub or restaurant or whatever?

 

If she's representing herself as female, she goes to the women's toilets. She tends to hang around with women, and be treated as one of the women in her social groups.

[King Pitcos]

Cheers pat.

 

If I'm reading that right you are on about Fetishistic Transvestism, rather than a Transexual. Much though not all transvestitism has a large sexual element in quite a few cases including a condition where people phantasise there altered form and sexualise that ( fall in love with their other gender project!). and as a result arent transexual, because they cannot or dont want to fully lose their birth gender.

I wasn't talking about fetishistic transvestism, at least in terms of how they identify themselves. But I guess that was what I was "accusing" them of, because I look at it from the perspective of that last sentence of yours that I've bolded. The ad campaign for such a viewpoint would probably be "If you want to be Martha, invert your Arthur." But you covered it in the following:

 

Most transexuals I've met largely don't give a shit about the sexual side ( doesnt stop them falling in love and having relationships and what have you) its just they prefer to live as their chosen gender 1st and formost. Because of the risks involved in Gender Reassignment surgery, some will keep their birth genitalia ( male genitalia shrinks with hormones, and kills sperm production basically making it redudent for many its not something that is sexually significant) because of the surgical risks Blood loss and vaginal prolapse arent uncommon as well as cost. Some will have sex , but not always in the straight sex kind of way. (as a constructed Vagina usually is cosmetic rather than practical and dependent on the state of the donor material. Ie size of the penis) again this might not extend to everyone, just the ones I've known. Yes there are issues about not having the required genitalia, but for a T person the bits that they have dont define their gender nor their sexuality if that makes sense.

So cheers for that.

 

Regarding the following:

As for toilets.. Gender of Presentation always ( failure to do so will fail the RLT test)

Is there often trouble that stems from this? I would imagine that what is, to most people, a bloke in drag going into women's bogs risks all manner of grief. Not just in terms of the usual "LOL tranny" abuse, but would staff throw them out if women kicked off about them being in there? What does the law say about penis-bearers using women's toilets in the likes of Wetherspoons? I imagine it's nowhere near as much of an issue the other way around, as any rock club has a cavalcade of spiky-haired women using the men's toilets anyway.

 

For those of you who do have mates that are transwhatnot, how was the subject first broached when you met them?

 

"I don't want to be rude, but I don't want to get it wrong, either - do you prefer to be referred to as 'he' or she'?" - and also, I asked how much hassle she gets when she's out in Leeds.

Was that an opening gambit or had you been friends a while?

[Chris B]

For those of you who do have mates that are transwhatnot, how was the subject first broached when you met them?

 

"I don't want to be rude, but I don't want to get it wrong, either - do you prefer to be referred to as 'he' or she'?" - and also, I asked how much hassle she gets when she's out in Leeds.

Was that an opening gambit or had you been friends a while?

 

We knew each other via similar social groups, and had been part of the same conversations around pub tables, but hadn't really spoken one-on-one. The first time we did, I asked, as I honestly didn't know the best way to handle it, and figured defaulting to 'it' was dehumanisingly offensive.

[mikey]

A mate of mine dated a bisexual transvestite submissive. That was a strange first meeting, especially since he makes such a fucking ugly woman.

[Chris B]

A mate of mine dated a bisexual transvestite submissive.

 

Did he stay awake at night, thinking about Dog?

 

Damn, wrong joke.

[Dr Pepper]

Two pages and not one photo.