MMA: Past Fight Discussion

[Egg Shen]

Overachiever - Kimbo Slice Thought I would break the cycle of underachievers with the other side of the coin. This is not a post lauding his achievements as a fighter, more a post of his achievements as a drawing card despite his questionable ability.Youtube first came to life in 2005, the first video I watched was a tribute to Mayhem Miller. But before then the name Kimbo Slice was gaining momentum, a while before this whilst prowling the depths of Sherdog the name Kimbo Slice cropped up a lot. I first heard it when researching who Sean Gannon was who fought at UFC 55, it seemed he grew his name through beating Slice in a arranged yet unsanctioned brawl. When Gannon got his arse kicked by the depressingly average Brandon Lee Hinkle, I dismissed Slice as a underground fad.People starting using Youtube more in 2006 and 2007 and his name grew, like I said I had already dismissed him and news he was turning to MMA interested me about as much as a Jim Davidson reunion tour. A special attraction win over Ray Mercer glanced my eye, but I felt he would eventually go away.During this time however his infamy grew to such a extent where people I knew would mention him to me, by 2007 UFC/MMA was pretty hip in certain circles, it was no longer what I looked at on the PC at college to waste a hour. I friend once told me what I thought of "that Kimbo Slice" as I am not one to wear my MMA elitist attitude on his sleeve I entertained him for a bit. "Ahhh the uneducated, I thought" I still thought it would be a fad.He was a product of his time, people were using the internet more and more, and Kimbo was one of its first major stars born exclusively on the net. It would be harder to happen now, the internet is too rife with other people breaking out and the novelty of a street fighter putting his fights n Youtube was taken by Slice, in other words it has been done.When Elite EX, a company I did not take that seriously signed him I felt they were grasping at straws. His win over Tank Abbott and some other bum who's name escapes me still did not sell me on his as a fighter. The Tank fight was the first sign that he could draw though, his hometown in Florida loved him. The week leading up was the first sign some MMA elite were taken exception to a streetfighter who was not even that good stealing their thunder.Then the boom came, for a 34 year old novelty fighter to headline the network debut of MMA proved me wrong all along. Kimbo was huge, as a fighter who was Top 30 at best even at Heavy, he had a scare against the imposing but weak chinned and world weary James Thompson. MMA hardcores and some fighters cried foul that Kimbo was shitting on the sport they built and portraying it in the wrong way, but casual fans loved it. They were oblivious to Kimbo not actually being very good, they just enjoyed the fad.Bas Rutten did improve Kimbo, he was now 230lbs and compared to what I thought he would become in say 2007 he did overachieve as a fighter as well, but that is not saying much. Elite XC without Kimbo did pitiful ratings, but like all fads born with novelties it all came to a end. The decent but not special Seth Petruzelli derailed the train in a shambles, Ken Shamrock cut himself so he could not fight, Frank Shamrock tried to step in and all sorts of shady tactics were accused. Kimbo had been exposed though, he lost in humiliating fashion. Gary Shaw I am sure thought it was a situation that could be salvaged, but it was not. Elite XC folded and it seemed the Kimbo fad had ended.Then came the twist, the UFC wanting a ratings hit called on Slice to go on TUF. People again cried foul, but the ratings spoke for themselves, the highest rating ever to see Kimbo lose to Big Country, people were still interested. As a man who admits he is a sucker for hype, I will admit I tuned in every week and avoided spoilers. I even woke up early on a Thursday morning to download it before I went to my college course, sad as it seems I have good memories of that time of life and TUF on a Thursday morning was a welcome addition.Anyway, the series was for me the last commercially successful series of TUF, the show was based around Kimbo coming back after he lost. The skill level was not good but that did not matter to most fans. The UFC would milk the fad twice more with Kimbo beating Houston Alexander which did a decent TV number and milked the PPV market with him losing to Meathead. The UFC could have let him stay on, as he was 1-1 (1-2 if you count TUF) but they decided to kill the fad before it did damage to their brand, they did not want to take too much integrity out of it for the sake of short term profit so Kimbo was wished well and moved on.For a man who made his name in the doldrums of the Internet, Kimbo is a overachiever. He is responsible for some of the biggest ratings in MMA history and surely made more money than hundreds of more talented fighters. In another era he would have not gotten this attention, he was just in the right place in the right time and he took advantage of it. He comes across as a nice guy, so fair play to him.For better or worse, we will never have another Kimbo Slice.

just as id put Frank Shamrock in my top 10, i'd also include Kimbo. For every single one of his fights i had them butterflies beforehand, i knew he wasn't a great fighter, but he had that special something that just hooks you, the X factor, and that's what made him so much fun to watch.I was lucky enough to be on the sherdog boards in the build up to the unsanctioned Kimbo/Gannon fight. It was mental, for weeks there were back and forth's between Kimbo's 'people' and Gannon, on the fucking message boards! many people thought it was a hoax but it was fun to follow, a date was set and i went online to find out what happened...this was before streaming so it was all a case of waiting around. News started filtering through that the fight had taken place and Gannon had won, again people questioned it's legitimacy though. Then that low-quality video got posted and it was unbelievable, the fight was long, brutal and at times tough to watch but that was some exciting shit, amazing times. I followed the Kimbo MMA ride from the beggining and it was awesome, i don't care what anybody says.

[jimufctna24]

Frank vs Baroni was built up masterfully online, I agree.Most people by this point though were turning on Frank and Baroni was a slight favorite with the bookies, It did seem like a massive deal and on the night thanks to Showtime and its production values plus a loud crowd in San Jose it lived up to the hype .Kenny Florian had a hand in the Gannon/Kimbo thing. There is a old thread on the UG about it. I remember that low-res video after following a link on Sherdog, I skipped to the end I will not lie. That is the only time I have watched any of Kimbo's street fights.I like Kimbo as well, but I can understand why some MMA hardcores (or snobs if you like) do not like him.

Edited October 11, 2012 by jimufctna24

[Egg Shen]

Florian had a hand in it?? first ive heard of that.

[jimufctna24]

Florian was friends with Gannon"MMAWeekly: At the last UFC, you were in the corner of Sean Gannon. So much was made about his entrance into the UFC, and he is from Boston like you, but how did you end up cornering him for that fight? What were your feelings about Sean Gannon being in the UFC?Kenny Florian: Sean is one of the toughest guys I’ve ever met; he’s proven that, even before the Kimbo fight. He’s fought at events like Mass Destruction, they had his record at 1-0 but records of mixed martial arts in the state of Massachusetts is really skewed. Pro fights, they’re not pro fights and then they’re amateur bouts. I’ve seen him fight at least 4 or 5 times and win. Sean has been a champion of mixed martial arts here in Boston. Now, obviously with the mystique around him and Kimbo, we’d be lying if we said that wasn’t the reason he was in the UFC. While he hasn’t proven himself on a national level of mixed martial arts, he was a marketable person, because of the Kimbo fight. Was Sean ready for the UFC? I don’t know. Personally I thought there have been people in the UFC who didn’t belong there. I myself didn’t get a chance to work with Sean, I mean I worked with him for 15 minutes and that was before his fight. I know he was working with some of the guys from my gym, some of the guys I train with. I don’t think Sean knew what the UFC was like. He didn’t realize that training to be in the UFC is something you really need to suffer through. You really need to kill yourself with training and I don

Edited October 11, 2012 by jimufctna24

[Egg Shen]

thanks for posting that, i never knew about it.

 

I'm sure there was talk of some promotion putting on a rematch in a genuine MMA fight back in the day but nothing came of it. I can't believe EliteXC never put that together though, it's got a shady backstory but they coulda sold that!

 

Gannon took his licks in the first fight that's for sure...

 

[jimufctna24]

I'm sure there was talk of some promotion putting on a rematch in a genuine MMA fight back in the day but nothing came of it. I can't believe EliteXC never put that together though, it's got a shady backstory but they coulda sold that!

Well you are right and it was Elite XC who tried putting it on!Before they got Ken, they entertained Mike Tyson then turned to Gannon who asked for too much money and did not want to risk his job as a police officer. At that stage they tried anything that would not be Brett Rogers who would have beaten him.

[Egg Shen]

oh yeh, i forgot Rogers for lobying for the Kimbo fight as well.

[jimufctna24]

With the heat in the MMA News thread going up thought I would escape with another underachiever post

 

Alexander Emelianenko

 

 

Being the younger brother of the best Heavyweight MMA has ever seen was never going to be easy. When you have a questionable past it only adds to it.

 

I will be honest much like Lil Nog, Alex never really gripped me based on the large shadow he lived in. Sure he was a top 10 Heavy in his Prime, but he never became his own.

 

Only once did he really try, in late 2006 rumors were swirling that Alex would go to the UFC to challenge Tim Sylvia, the mission was seen as a easy one, as the UFC division being piss poor it would be a easy run to the top. With his career in Pride dwindling, but not to a point where he lost his bargaining power, it looked a genius move.

 

However, a loss to Werdum cooled talk and eventually with the sale of Pride it was a after thought. The rumors that prevented him fighting stateside later about Hep B may have scrapped the move anyway.

 

If it would have happened and Pride would have stayed intact, maybe it could have been different. Anyway since this time he has spent the best part of 6 years facing cans and has even lost a few, making him about as relevant in 2012 as Timmy Mallet.

 

If we take away the tag of younger brother of Alex, he may have achieved more. He won when he should have done, but he did not win many crunch fights as the losses to Barnett and Cro Cop show. The one time he did win proper was with Sergai who then was in his Prime, he was picking bones a bit as Overeem had upset him, but never the less it was the best win of his career.

 

People questioned back in these days as a striker was he better than Fedor. Whilst his Brother did beat Cro Cop and he faltered I get the debate, both had power but I would say Alex was ore powerful. In Pride, Fedor would not knock out many guys, Alex would. Now Fedor took on better guys, but something about Alex tells me he had more power. Fedor was just more complete than him.

 

Alex has been alleged to be a bit of a prick as well, Sergai has some rough stories about him using his second name in Russia to be above the law and his Brother bailing him out. Allegations of his being Racist have bee rife also. Like Fedor later on though, he never changed things up enough. If he had moved to the states and got his licensing sorted he should have started a new camp and evolved, staying in Russia and under M1 he stayed the same and just got slower and older.

 

For me 2006 was his best chance to achieve more, he would be a big fish in a small pond away from his Brothers shadow, but it was not to be. Alex will always be known worldwide as "Fedor's Brother"

Edited October 12, 2012 by jimufctna24

[wandshogun09]

Another great read. I really liked Aleks as a fighter. It's a shame he never amounted to much more than an just an exciting heavyweight banger. I always thought he had better hands than his brother. Better boxing, whereas Fedor could be sloppy even in his prime. Fedor was a better all round MMA fighter though and seemed more focused on his career. If Aleks could have really put his mind and full effort into it he could have been a top heavyweight I reckon. He was a nutter though by all accounts. Not the mild mannered personality of Fedor, he was a bit of a loose cannon as you say. I remember reading stuff about his tattoos possibly being criminal gang or possibly racism related but could be bollocks. He'd have been a breath of fresh air in the 2006 UFC ranks. Aleks vs Arlovski could have been awesome back then.

I will be honest much like Lil Nog, Alex never really gripped me based on the large shadow he lived in. Sure he was a top 10 Heavy in his Prime, but he never became his own.

Little Nog is fucking quality and I won't hear anything to the contrary. I've been his biggest defender on here for ages and I'm happy to continue driving the Little Nog bandwagon until the wheels fall off. He's a BJJ BlackbeltHe's won medals in amateur boxing and represented Brazil in the Pan Am gamesBeat the legendary Kazushi Sakuraba, convincingly, at a time where Saku wasn't totally fucked physicallySubmitted HendoBeat Overeem. Twice. Was one half of probably the best fight in Pride history with ShogunAlso, the first man to ever drop Shogun in MMAHe single handledly derailed Luiz Cane's career (who was thought to be a future contender at 205) in his UFC debutCane hasn't got back on track since. Looks like a killer in staredownsBut is a thouroughly bloody nice chap outside the cage/ringMade Tito cryHe's had his ups and downs, the loss to Sokoudjou should have never happened. Knowing what we know now, Nog is a way better fighter than that. And he doesn't always look good against wrestlers as seen in some of his UFC outings but I'm telling ya, Little Nog can still go. I've seen nothing to convince me he is shot.I understand why he's not as highly thought of as Big Nog because he's in the shadow of a living legend. Few in MMA are in the league of Big Nog. But Little Nog doesn't get enough credit for being a fucking terrific fighter in his own right for me. Watch this awesome Little Nog highlight complete with his brother's old Rolling Stones entrance song;

It's awesome and shows a bit more of him than if you're just familiar with his UFC/Pride fights. You may not know that Little Nog throws a mean flying knee for example They are both the Nog's Dog's Bollocks. Edited October 12, 2012 by wandshogun09

[jimufctna24]

Thanks for reminding me of Soku, I will do a write up on him at some point.Regarding Little Nog, I like him as well and was always a bit clueless as to why he never achieved more.I remember people saying he had the best BJJ in the sport and the best boxing in his class. On paper that would make him a force and to some extent he is/was.I do not rate Ryan Bader at all or Phil Davis that much, so on that basis he should have beaten them with those credentials. Maybe in his younger days he would have done. He does live in his brothers shadow still, for example I forget he exists whilst I work out to his Brothers Highlight Reels.He has done a lot more than I thought looking at your post though Wand.

[wandshogun09]

Watch the highlight as well man. It's one of my favourite MMA highlights and the music goes well with it.

 

I agree though, he really should have beat Bader and Davis. But people go on like he's been shit in the UFC. He's lost a couple but he's never been totally dominated. He was stuffing Davis' takedowns early on (which is no mean feat if you know Davis' wrestling pedigree) and both were close, competitive fights.

 

He gets a lot of shit (wrongly, not his fault) for the Brilz decision but in truth under the 10 point system that wasn't a robbery at all. I think that's a case of Brilz doing better than people expected so they cry robbery. As I recall there was a clear round for each man and then one razor close round which could go either way. Not a robbery either way and not a bad decision for Nog to get it.

 

Looking back he really should have beat Bader and Davis though. Maybe he has slipped a bit. But I think the win over Tito (I know not a great win at this point) could be exactly what he needed. A bit of a confidence booster at the right time. He won't win the title, Jones is too much for him but I think he can finish up his career with some quality name fights against the likes of Shogun, Rashad, possibly Rampage, Forrest, Chael etc.

 

He's a fucking exciting fighter wherever the fight goes. I love the coneheaded bastard.

[wandshogun09]

Just found these gifs of some of Wanderlei's Muay Thai fights before he started MMA;

 

This poor fucker is Eduardo da Silva

 

Moises Pinto is the victim here

 

And Marcio da Silva should have known better than to try this shit

 

Some of his early MMA fights...

 

Adriano Verdelli

 

Sean Bormet

 

Egidio da Costa

 

Mike Van Arsdale

 

 

Wanderlei Bastard Silva.

[Egg Shen]

some quality stuff going in this thread

 

i do plan on getting a few things up myself, maybe after the dust has settled on UFC 153 ill have a go. I will post this link though, its well worth half hour of your time, i read it on the shitter, quality stuff...

 

The 50 Worst Fighters in UFC History

 

[The Natural]

I like the career posts you do wandshogun09, I preferred the Wandy one because I like Wandy and I've never liked Diaz . Who's going to be your next subject? If you are taking requests, I'd like one on either Randy Couture but it might be difficult getting links to complete fights, Big Nog perhaps?

Edited October 14, 2012 by The Natural

[Magnum Milano]

I will post this link though, its well worth half hour of your time, i read it on the shitter, quality stuff...The 50 Worst Fighters in UFC History

Cheers for that link Ebb. I read it last night and really enjoyed it. Before I clicked it I had a think about things and was expecting it to be full of the likes off Jimmerson, Tuli, Ettish, Ramirez, Nasri from the early years, so it was nice to see they mixed things up a bit. Especially enjoyed the TUF section with the likes of 'the fuckin' Gladiator', Stand & Wang, Petruzelli and Gabe the Godzilla. Oh, and Neil Grove made the list too!