MMA: Past Fight Discussion

[Egg Shen]

gotta get me the Penn book.

 

The gif. before the 2nd Edgar fight is just baffling. I love looking at body language and stuff before fights and knowing how BJ usually comes into fights...all nervous, twitchy energy...the way he came into that fight is just weird, it aint the same guy!?

 

...here's a question, someone mentioned Penn being in top shape for the 2nd GSP fight. How would you feel that version of welterweight BJ would fair with Rory MacDonald? not many people are giving BJ a snowballs chance in hell now, but how would that BJ have faired?

Edited September 6, 2012 by Ebb

[jimufctna24]

I think Rory would still win, I am not totally sold on Rory yet as his striking has not been tested, but to be fair with his wrestling, power and ground game he does not need it or shown too much of it.

 

It would come down to size, Rory is a massive 170lbs and BJ is a tiny 170lbs, if they were the same size I may lean towards BJ, but I could not be certain as Rory is a nasty style for him. Even in shape the size would be too much for BJ to overcome in my opinion and it would mirror the GSP fight. Maybe it would be a bit closer but still I think Rory would be too much.

 

I would get the BJ book, I could not believe what I was reading at places he goes to town on certain people so much, I got told that the ghost writer later got chewed up by the UFC for what he printed and I am not shocked. BJ pulls no punches and says some outlandish things.

[wandshogun09]

I'll be honest, as great as Rory has looked so far, I'm not fully on the hype train yet and I'm not ready to start calling him the future champ, unbeatable and some of the other over the top, premature declarations I've seen heaped on him. His best win to date is Nate Diaz, a lightweight. People putting him on this pedestal and comparing him to GSP or calling him the next Jon Jones, it's way early for that talk.

 

Jones has gone through the who's who of 205ers. He's obliterated and embarrassed some of the best fighters in the sport. Rory has beaten good fighters and looked phenomenal but hasn't beat a top welterweight yet..

 

He doesn't have that untouchable aura to me. There things to exploit. Condit absolutely battered him once he weathered the storm. Che Mills lit him up as well. BJ is dangerous enough in all areas to give Rory a tough fight. I'm not writing him off.

 

I will pick Rory for two reasons. 1. size and 2. I'm not sure BJ's heart's in it 100% anymore. But BJ is a test for Rory no mistake.

Edited September 7, 2012 by wandshogun09

[jimufctna24]

Just watched Like Water again on DVD

 

It was just as good the second time around, a worthy tribute to the best fighter of this generation. Much like Wrestling With Shadows the makers picked the perfect time to make the documentary.

 

It has charm and style, whilst like other bio's like Senna it is done from one perspective and it is made to make you like the subject, it does not become overbearing with it. Seeing Anderson at home and at the gym makes you see the playful side of him, but it is his passion and anger when watching a friend fight at a smaller show that lets you see that Anderson is indeed very human. How he misses his family later on in the documentary only adds to this.

 

The soundtrack is also top-notch, especially at the end. They do dig the boot into Chael a bit, but he is a worthy baddie with his loud mouth and trash talk, the comments on Lance Armstrong even 2 years later have lost none of their shock value. Ed Soares actually comes across well and I am not sure how the makers wanted Dana to come across, at the end they show Dana happy as a camper putting the belt around Anderson like his approval marked a comeback from the backlash from Abi Dhabi (which in many ways it did with the public)

 

Overall, I cannot recommend it enough, any casual UFC/MMA fan should find something to enjoy and I am sure many non-fans could find the story simple enough to find it enjoyable. It shows Anderson as the best fighter in the world as the start but radiating discontent, but leaves you looking at the best fighter who is very human and has several dimensions to his character and is on his way to becoming the legend/all time great that he is today.

[Egg Shen]

i'm quite embarrased to say i still haven't seen it

[The Natural]

Just watched Like Water again on DVD

 

It was just as good the second time around, a worthy tribute to the best fighter of this generation. Much like Wrestling With Shadows the makers picked the perfect time to make the documentary.

 

It has charm and style, whilst like other bio's like Senna it is done from one perspective and it is made to make you like the subject, it does not become overbearing with it. Seeing Anderson at home and at the gym makes you see the playful side of him, but it is his passion and anger when watching a friend fight at a smaller show that lets you see that Anderson is indeed very human. How he misses his family later on in the documentary only adds to this.

 

The soundtrack is also top-notch, especially at the end. They do dig the boot into Chael a bit, but he is a worthy baddie with his loud mouth and trash talk, the comments on Lance Armstrong even 2 years later have lost none of their shock value. Ed Soares actually comes across well and I am not sure how the makers wanted Dana to come across, at the end they show Dana happy as a camper putting the belt around Anderson like his approval marked a comeback from the backlash from Abi Dhabi (which in many ways it did with the public)

 

Overall, I cannot recommend it enough, any casual UFC/MMA fan should find something to enjoy and I am sure many non-fans could find the story simple enough to find it enjoyable. It shows Anderson as the best fighter in the world as the start but radiating discontent, but leaves you looking at the best fighter who is very human and has several dimensions to his character and is on his way to becoming the legend/all time great that he is today.

 

I'd like to buy Like Water: Anderson Silva. Awesome documentary with the makers of it lucking out covering what turned out to be one of the greatest fights in MMA history. Any extras on it?

 

i'm quite embarrased to say i still haven't seen it

 

Fix that ASAP. You won't regret it.

[jimufctna24]

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Anderson-Silva-Doc...4682&sr=8-1

 

Here is where I bought it, no extras on it though. I put a link to it online in the MMA News thread if anyone wants to search through it.

[wandshogun09]

Yeah here's the link Jim posted, I had it Bookmarked to save looking through the massive MMA thread;

http://www.putlocker.com/file/3C695CC3B5BBA875#

 

I can't really add much more to what Jim put really, it's a must see. I personally think it is better than both The Smashing Machine and Choke myself, although maybe that's more because those two were before my time as an MMA fan and I watched them after the fact. I loved both still but this one has it beat for me. It's up there with some of my favourite Boxing docs as well like Thrilla in Manila and When We Were Kings among others.

 

The producers really did land in a barrel of tits with Like Water, they lucked out big time. If they'd chosen to make the doc at literally any other time in Anderson's career, it wouldn't have been what it could have been. It covers the span from his worst fight and a time where pretty much the whole MMA world was turning their backs on him, to probably his career defining performance in an MMA classic.

 

I love this pic for some reason

 

 

I suspect it was the Portugese version of Brock's "Talk all the shit you want now motherfucker" to Mir at UFC 100.

 

That two fight stretch is probably what Anderson will be remembered for mostly once he's retired. Of course the Franklin title win, the clowning of Forrest Griffin and the kicking Belfort's face off will rightly be remembered and replayed for enternity but I think that Maia-Sonnen 1 stretch will be the time people look back on and remember Anderson for in years to come. Partly for how he turned the bad feelings towards him back around on one night and also because it's the focal point of this doc.

 

I keep meaning to get the DVD. I'll get it next payday. Shame there's no extras though. They could have put some deleted scenes in at least, or interviews with Anderson, Dana, Nog or whoever. And Seagal teaching him that fight winning triangle obviously

Edited September 11, 2012 by wandshogun09

[jimufctna24]

I would prefer it to Choke, that is very good and still holds up today as a decent piece.

 

Smashing Machine? Well they both are very different films, one is the redemption of a great fighter who in the end does himself justice whilst Smashing Machine is of a underachiever (maybe Penn does have some competition in those stakes after all) who is fucking his career and himself away.

 

Smashing Machine is the more powerful film and with HBO producing it is still as well done as Like Water despite it being a good 10 years older, but if I were to recommend one it would be Like Water as it is more entertaining and I think more people would rather see the inspiring story of one of the greatest fighters in a boom period for the sport rather than a steroid junkie almost killing himself in the dark era (in the west) Plus one is a fairly good advert for MMA as Anderson comes across as amicable/playful family man and the other one is a terrible representation.

 

I would argue that it would make a better film if they filmed leading to the second fight with Chael, but wheres the big story and redemption. Anderson's rep was at a low in spring 2010 and at a high after the Sonnen fight, factor in the broken rib, the threat of being fired and Sonnen coming out of the shadows initially, you cannot really ask for a better time in Anderson's career.

 

So I feel that I am not copping out with the old they are different excuse, I prefer Like Water by a tad.

Edited September 11, 2012 by jimufctna24

[wandshogun09]

Anderson Silva is saying he wants to fight for 6 more years. Which would take him to the age of 43.

 

"I guess you can see more like six years of fighting. I love what I do. The team that works with me does a fantastic job. I've never had a serious injury that took myself away from competition. So I think I have this a little while longer."

 

Usually I'd say 43 is pushing it in MMA but this is Anderson Silva. He's no normal guy, the man's an alien. If he somehow went unbeaten for another 6 years then no-one in MMA is ever touching what he'd have accomplished.

 

My question is if he does fight for 6 years and then hangs them up, based on him usually fighting twice a year that would be roughly 12 fights. Who would be your ideal 12 final fights for him? Now obviously this is based on who's about now, a lot will change over the next few years. Guys will lose, retire, new stars will emerge. So a lot of this list will come to nowt but it's just a bit of fun. I'm bored.

 

Here's my dirty dozen, in no particular order;

 

These first two are obvious

 

1. Georges St Pierre (185lbs or Catchweight of 178-180lbs)

 

This one's been talked about since 2009. They've been considered two of the very best in MMA since about 2007/08 and they've dominated their respective weight divisions. The best part is they are close enough in weight for this fight to happen.

 

There's already been a few times that the possibility of them meeting has come up, talk of GSP going up to 185 and even Anderson talking of dropping to 170. At one point at the start of Anderson's fight with Demian Maia, Joe Rogan actually said live on commentary, something like "If Anderson Silva wins this fight he will fight GSP at 170". It was that close to happening. Of course Anderson jived around the cage for 5 rounds against Maia and the dream fight went up in smoke.

 

Recently the talk has started up again and the current rumour is that the only thing standing in the way of this fight coming off now is this man...

 

 

According to Dana White, if GSP beats Carlos Condit in November then a superfight between Anderson Silva and Georges St Pierre is likely to finally happen in Dallas, Texas at the massive Cowboys Stadium sometime next year.

 

We'll see. Dana has said that both Anderson and GSP want the fight but I've never got that impression from GSP. Hopefully it will happen, it would be a shame if it didn't.

 

Of course, Condit could fuck this one up royally in 2 months time.

 

2. Jon Jones (205lbs)

 

This is the other most commonly talked about dream fight. Over the last 2 years, Jones has been to the Light Heavyweight division what Anderson was at Middleweight the first 2 years of his reign. He's looked unstoppable and wiped out a series of the best fighters in the sport with ease.

 

Who doesn't want to see a Silva vs Jones fight? Well, Silva and Jones unfortunately. They've both said they're not interested in it because they've become friends apparently...

 

 

Dana White has come out this week and said the fight is possible though and for the right price I'm sure they'd both go for it.

 

As for the rest...

 

3. Chael Sonnen (third fight at 185lbs)

 

Yeah I don't care if Sonnen's 0-2 against Silva. And I don't care what anyone says, if Chael somehow winds up getting one last crack at the Spider then we'll have another 40 page thread again and every fucker on here will be creaming their pants in anticipation.

 

Admittedly, I don't think this fight is that likely to happen. Chael's gone to 205 and has picked Jon Jones as the target of his torrent of trash talk now. And Anderson has already stopped him twice. If it did somehow happen it would have to be a fair bit of time down the line. Maybe 2 or 3 years and Chael would have to string some wins together. Would be a huge fight though, would make everyone money and it would be great fun to watch.

 

4. Chris Weidman (185lbs)

 

Just from his skillset alone this is an intriguing fight. Weidman's been touted as a top prospect for a couple of years now. In fact Matt Serra once said in a video blog before UFC 119 (way before Weidman's UFC debut) that Weidman was a future UFC champ.

 

skip to 6:40 for Serra's prediction on Weidman

 

You've got a big, young, strong middleweight with Division 1 All-American wrestling credentials, Serra BJJ purple belt (which would be a black belt in a lot of schools), competed in the ADCC's with just a year's BJJ training and some really dangerous striking (how many elbow strikes do you see drop a guy in MMA?).

 

He's a handful and he's not even the finished article yet. He's pretty much a better version of Chael Sonnen, at everything bar trash talk obviously. All he's lacking is name recognition, that's improving after the handling he gave Munoz but he's far from a star at present. If he keeps doing what he's been doing though he can't be denied his shot for much longer.

 

I want to see Silva vs Weidman. I expect him to beat Boetsch fairly comfortably and that should put him either right in contention or no more than 1 win away.

 

5. Michael Bisping (185lbs)

 

I've always said that I don't give Bisping a chance in this fight. I can see it happening down the line though. Bisping's good enough to get there no doubt, just not good enough to beat Anderson. In my opinion. He's very good at everything but he's not better than Silva at anything. I picture this to look similar to Silva vs Griffin with Bisping taking a flat back fall similar to the one in the above gif.

 

It would be a big fight though. Bisping is the biggest name Anderson hasn't fought at 185. And whether you like Bisping or not he's great at hyping a fight and getting people interested one way or another. He'd do enough talking for the both of them if this fight comes off.

 

Won't end well for Bisping. My guess is he'll be doing this face when he watches it back the next day;

 

 

6. Rashad Evans (185lbs)

 

Much like Weidman, Rashad poses similar problems for Anderson. He's a good gameplanner usually as well. He's talked recently about dropping to 185 and he'd add a nice bit of name value at the top end of 185.

 

I'd love to see Silva vs Evans and I'd actually give Rashad a decent shot depending on how the weight cut goes.

 

7. Mauricio 'Shogun' Rua (205lbs)

 

Sad to say this because I think Shogun would get battered. But there's no way it wouldn't be an incredible fight however long it went. Anderson wouldn't be dancing about after a couple of Shogun leg kicks that's for sure.

 

Even though he's banged up like fuck these days Shogun is a fantastic striker. These days his defence is sloppy and he often takes a shot (or 5) to land one which would be a terrible way to fight a killer like Anderson. But he's got a granite jaw, great timing (see first Machida fight), underrated wrestling (see Liddell, Vera, Coleman, Hendo fights) and for a couple of rounds he could hang with Anderson in the striking. I just think Anderson would land too often and would be too accurate for Shogun to withstand it over 3, 4, 5 rounds.

 

I'd pick Anderson by TKO around the 4th. Would be an awesome fight to see.

 

8. Vitor Belfort (rematch at 185lbs)

 

I'd love a rematch of this. Belfort wasn't doing too bad before he got toe-poked to sleep. Who knows how it would have gone had he landed first? It's one of them fights. If they fought 10 times I'd pick Anderson to win probably 7 or 8 times but Belfort is one guy who I think can hang with Anderson on the feet. He's probably the only guy at 185 who I'd even give a chance to possibly catch Anderson of the current crop.

 

9. Alan Belcher/Hector Lombard/Brian Stann/Mark Munoz (one of these at 185)

 

 

Any one of these would be fine for a title defence. Wouldn't be huge PPV sellers but they could easily whack one on a Brazil card. I think any of the 4 would make for an exciting fight.

 

Belcher and Lombard are dangerous strikers but I think Anderson would be too slick for both. Stann has a brick right hand but I think he'd get schooled pretty badly. Munoz (would obviously need to get back to winning ways and go on another run) would actually be probably the toughest challenge here due to his wrestling, vicious ground and pound and having trained a lot with Anderson the last few years.

 

10. Fedor Emelianenko (Heavyweight)

 

I know Fedor's retired, not what he was and all that but it's still a fight I'd love to see. What MMA fan would turn their nose up at this? Fedor's the last guy considered the best MMA fighter on the planet and Anderson's taken over that place at the top. Would be a battle of two of the true legends of MMA, the two guys with perhaps the greatest winning streaks in the sport's history.

 

11. Nick Diaz (At a Dopeweight of 178-180lbs)

 

I'd never even thought of this one until recently when Diaz offered to go up and fight at 185 with Anderson. Now, I have no doubts that Silva would beat Diaz. But that doesn't stop me wanting to see it, it would be a crazy fight.

 

I think a catchweight would be the best and fairest way to do this. It probably will never happen anyway but I can dream.

 

12. Frank Mir (Heavyweight)

 

Just because I want to see Anderson wipe that smug face off that smug head. Nothing I'd love more than to see Anderson fire some knees into that Chia-Pet headed twat. I still haven't had my fill of revenge for Nog's broken arm. JDS was too nice in their fight, one of the most polite beatdowns I've ever seen. Anderson would do it properly.

 

It was actually being talked about a couple of years back as well wasn't it? When Mir was on about trying to drop to 205.

 

Anyway that's my twelve. If he fought all of them, and especially beat them, he'd be untouchable for a good few years as the best MMA fighter ever for me. I'm not sure anyone could top it.

 

He'd have a good shot as well. The only guys off that list who I'd give decent shot to would be Jones, GSP, Rashad and Weidman. And I'd probably pick Anderson against all but Jones right now.

Edited September 11, 2012 by wandshogun09

[jimufctna24]

Learn from the mistakes of your hero's like Roy Jones and Ali, Anderson. Don't let the world remember you for anything but the marvel you were in your prime, yes your legacy will be secure but your health and self-respect may not if you carry on until 43. You don't need the money and have a family you want to do your best by.

 

Anyway, enough doom and gloom. Out of those I think Anderson should hopefully face GSP, if he beats him (which I think he will) Anderson should maybe take on Bisping if possible then retire. Bisping would be a nice end to his career, Weidman may be the guy to beat him. The rest as said some are fantasy, Mir and him did entertain facing each other and for what its worth I like Silva to win. The match up suits him, Mir is not that good a wrestler and Anderson would have the speed, power and accuracy to give Mir fits and maybe polish him of.

 

Fedor is a favorable match up also, Fedor like those looping punches, Anderson could counter then easy. Its sounds a bit too simple, but it is not, it would take a exceptional and fast striker to time those straight punches to counter Fedor's but Anderson is just that good, his reflexes and technique are effortless at times. Diaz would be a lot of fun and Sonnen 3 I would like but at 205lbs to add a new twist.

 

Jones is a tough one, if it was K1, I would pick Anderson all day. Silva knows how to fight from the bottom, but Jones is vicious and I am not sure Anderson could survive like he did with Chael, that said people think Jones can be subbed with his long and lanky arms providing big targets for armbars and triangles, so it is not all that simple. My heart says Anderson but my head may favor Jones sadly.

Edited September 11, 2012 by jimufctna24

[Egg Shen]

I would prefer it to Choke, that is very good and still holds up today as a decent piece.

 

Choke has dated badly but it's a great snapshot of the real dark days of MMA, there's not much backstage footage of stuff around that time pre-internet and all that, so Choke is always gonna have its merits.

[jimufctna24]

Yeah Choke is very rough around the edges production wise, but it still holds up as a fair reflection of the time it covers.

 

On another note on The Smashing Machine it seems to have a Scarface/Raging Bull effect to it by some critics in relation to the main character. Kerr's character is seen by some to be so questionable and portrays MMA so badly that it gets bad reviews, despite it being well produced and gripping. I bit like Tony Montana and Jake Lamotta, people don't want to spend their time watching a character with such negative traits. Its a bit harsh and there are differences as Kerr is not a vile man just a addict, but some mainly in the MMA community feel that way.

 

I know Frank Trigg hates it and even give Kerr a bollocking about it for "putting MMA back years" a while back. It does not bother me any, but it may bother some people who have not seen it.

Edited September 11, 2012 by jimufctna24

[wandshogun09]

Ha, well I hope Mark Kerr gets a visiting order to see Trigg when he's doing Porridge for choking his wife and gives him a bollocking right back. Trigg is a cretin.

 

You're right that Smashing Machine is a different kind of doc to Like Water, I loved both but I preferred Like Water for sure. Anderson has been so ridiculously great throughout his UFC career that I went in thinking they wouldn't do him justice just basing the doc on two fights. But it actually surpassed my expectations. You had a great baddie in it, a proper backstory and a fitting ending. The Smashing Machine was fantastic, I still give it a watch from time to time but it can be a bit depressing at times. Like Water is the kind of documentary anyone could get into.

[jimufctna24]

The Smashing Machine was fantastic, I still give it a watch from time to time but it can be a bit depressing at times. Like Water is the kind of documentary anyone could get into.

I think that is why people also give it shit, because it is a bit too grim and dare I say real. Where is the story, man wastes away his life and almost kills himself doing something that is not even socially accepted (at the time) and gets hooked on drugs along the way. It is all a bit uninspiring. I actually think Kerr is quite a likable person, but others just see him as a addict and a bonehead.

 

Again, I like it a great deal, but its hardly something I would crack out in front of friends or anything.