MMA: Past Fight Discussion

[jimufctna24]

Heavyweight is easier to stay relevant in than lighter classes, a Heavyweight peaks at a older age than lighter weight fighters, and Barnett was very young when he entered the UFC.

 

However, Fedor, Cro Cop and others from early days have crumbled. Nog has slowed down, and the UFC Heavies were rightfully exposed once Pride Heavies came over. Lesnar also exposed a flaw in the HW make-up, there was no real decent wrestlers at Heavyweight until Lesnar came on the scene.

 

Randy Couture was too small and others were just decent wrestlers, for ages all you had was one dimensional has been's like Coleman and Randleman as the Heavyweight wrestlers. Heavyweights are rare as well, even rarer is a decent Heavyweight, you will not find a lighter class with the amount of dross in the Heavyweight class.

 

Its these variables along with Barnett's sensible fighting style that have made for longevity. It is rare Barnett has taken much of a beating in his career, only the OP final with Cro Cop did he take any real blows to the head that I can think of properly. Nog has taken a lot worse, and it shows. Barnett is far from shopworn due to this approach.

 

Fedor and Cro Cop for me were bad style match-ups, any other HW including Nog, Mir and Arlovski, Barnett would have measure of until Cain and JDS turned up who I think again are bad match-ups for Barnett. Fedor would have probably won a striking battle with Barnett, and as takedowns are not Barnett's strongest area, the advantage on the ground he would have on top of Fedor may not be deployed enough.

 

I would have loved that fight to happen though, as Barnett is probably my favorite Pride Heavy of the bunch.

Edited September 20, 2013 by jimufctna24

[wandshogun09]

Yeah, 2007-08 was when the UFC heavyweight division really got shook up. First you had Randy upsetting big Tim, then the Pride heavies came in. But more than any of that was the first half of 2008 where you had Lesnar, Velasquez and Carwin all debut in a three month span. As you say, after Coleman's day passed the day of the heavyweight wrestler seemed to die with it. Until them three came in at the same time. Then JDS came from nowhere later that year. 2008 was a big year for the UFC HW division.

 

I always think of Cain and JDS as the modern day versions of Fedor and Cro Cop/Nog. Cain is the new Fedor, right down to the stoic expression. JDS is the big striker of the division like Cro Cop was in Pride, but also has the links with Nog. What's weird is Barnett was always nipping at the heels of that Fedor/Nog/Cro Cop group in Pride, and here he is in the new era looking like getting in the mix with Cain and JDS. That shows his longevity. The 3 guys who were often above him in Pride are all either retired or close to it now and Barnett's still on the hunt.

 

I like him to beat Travis Browne. It's a tough fight but I think he's equipped to handle it. It's really only Cain and JDS I'd not fancy him to beat of the current crop. There's Cormier as well but a rematch is unlikely anytime soon. A Werdum fight would be interesting but I'd lean towards Barnett.

 

At some point I'd quite like to see Barnett vs Nogueira 3. They're 1-1 in two awesome fights and despite Nog being banged up, if he came in in shape like he did for Werdum I think we'd get a good fight. I'd definitely favour Barnett now but it'd be nice to settle the score either way.

 

I'll have to rewatch the two Nog vs Barnett fights again actually. Been meaning to for ages. Two of the best heavyweight fights in MMA history along with Nog vs Randy, Lesnar vs Carwin, Nog vs Cro Cop etc.

 

Fuck, Nog was the bollocks. Has any heavyweight had more awesome fights than him? Couture, Cro Cop, Barnett x2, Kharitonov, Sapp. All classics.

[jimufctna24]

I always think of Cain and JDS as the modern day versions of Fedor and Cro Cop/Nog.

Agreed on this and the point about Nog, the ground battles with Barnett were a oasis for me in 2006, when all I had HW MMA wise was needless round robin between Tim Sylvia, Jeff Monson, Arlovki and Pe De Pano. Fucking horrible.

 

Barnett before he went to Pride also wasted a few years in KI MMA, bet he was paid well though.

[Egg Shen]

only the OP final with Cro Cop did he take any real blows to the head that I can think of properly.

you've never seen the first Pedro Rizzo fight then

[jimufctna24]

only the OP final with Cro Cop did he take any real blows to the head that I can think of properly.

you've never seen the first Pedro Rizzo fight then

 

For some reason I always forget that fight, despite it being one of the first fights I saw from early Zuffa era.

[wandshogun09]

Check this out. A documentary on the Tito Ortiz-Ken Shamrock feud.

 

Ortiz-Shamrock: Bloodfeud Part 1;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&a...p;v=Ns55S_26Ens

 

It's in 7 parts. Pretty good watch. It doesn't actually cover the first Tito vs Ken fight, I think it must pre-date that or surely it'd have been included. But it's interesting enough. Tito's manager at the time, Sal Garcia, was behind it and there's interview footage of Guy Mezger, Clyde Gentry (author of No Holds Barred) and a young Joe Silva and Bruce Buffer. Covers everything from Tito's UFC debut against Mezger, Tito vs Jerry Bohlander, Tito vs Mezger 2 which was really the beginning of the Tito vs Lions Den rivalry and the fallout from Tito's 'Gay Mezger Is My Bitch' t-shirt. Worth a look if you're bored.

 

Also, I love the similarity here;

 

 

[Egg Shen]

i'll have a look at that, nice post wand.

 

On a similar note, there's a new doc/one on one piece airing on Spike this week 'Bonded by Blood' covering the Frank/Ken feud.

[jimufctna24]

Check this out. A documentary on the Tito Ortiz-Ken Shamrock feud.

 

Ortiz-Shamrock: Bloodfeud Part 1;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&a...p;v=Ns55S_26Ens

I got this back in 2006, its a great little documentary. Real insight into how Tito and Lions Den's feud started.

 

This is also the documentary that shows that Tito and Hammer House were amazingly allies backstage at UFC 19. Randleman is a maniac as ever.

[Egg Shen]

got a link to that?

[jimufctna24]

got a link to that?

Its in the video Wand posted, watch the full documentary, I think they appear near the end when Tito puts on the shirt at UFC 19

[wandshogun09]

That's right. It's near the end when they're on about the fallout from Tito wearing the t-shirt. Apparently there were fears that it would kick off backstage after the show and Coleman and Randleman were siding with Tito according to the doc.

 

I liked the bit when Tito's manager Sal Garcia was saying Bob Meyrowtiz was bollocking him for letting Tito wear the shirt. To which Garcia replied, 'Why are you mad? I just got Ken Shamrock back in the UFC', and Meyrowitz paused, smiled and walked away. Funny thing was, Meyrowitz didn't even get the big payoff because by the time Tito vs Ken eventually happened, Zuffa were running things.

[jimufctna24]

Bruce Buffer's comments are very interesting.

 

I like how he gives credit for how smart Garcia/Ortiz are with self-promotion.

[dopper]

I watched the first 6 episodes of the first season of The Ultimate Fighter yesterday.

 

 

Despite having the chance to watch the famous Griffin/Bonnar fight when I unlocked it on the UFC 2010 PS3 game, I've held off until I got round to watching the whole series first.

 

I'd like to hear comments from those of you who saw it at the time or have seen it anytime, but it's really interesting for me as someone who has watched UFC regularly since getting ESPN in 2009 to see so many established veterans getting their start.

 

Some random observations:

 

After only seeing Mike Swick compete as a Welterweight previously it took some getting used to seeing him broad shouldered and double chinned as a Light Heavyweight. I liked him in the house as he is the closest to what I would be like (staying out of the pranks and arguments but getting really pissed off when they did happen because the pranksters/arguers got everyone else involved whether they like it or not).

 

I would have hated living with Chris Leben. On Day 1 - day ONE - he was loudly drunk, keeping all of the other fighters awake who knew that the following morning would be the biggest day of their lives and even pissed on one guy's bed when he was out of the room. This continued for the first 2 weeks before his team-mates finally brought it to their coach Randy Couture's attention. In fairness Leben did then cut out the stupidity, aside from constantly rubbing it in Swick's face that he beat him in a pre-UFC fight. But by the time he was eventually eliminated he had smashed up the house and even left the house to go for a walk in the middle of the night so he should possibly have gone sooner according to the rules.

 

I really liked Josh Koscheck up until Episode 5 when it all really kicked off in the house. In earlier episodes he went out of his way to motivate and help his lazy, whiny team-mate Bobby Southworth cut 20 pounds for his fight. Koscheck at one point literally dragged him by his ankles into the sauna when Bobby just wanted to lie on the floor and wait for the weight to magically come off. He could have left him to blow his whole opportunity, and some team-mates did do that, but he stayed with him the whole night until Bobby got down to 205lbs.

The whole reason Southworth had to fight was because the light-heavyweights all did a challenge carrying heavy buckets. Southworth was by far the last to finish. No shame in that. But what pissed Coach Liddell off was that he kept stopping completely and nearly giving up. That added to his reluctance to cut weight, despite the repercussions (sp?) made him extremely unlikeable. Then what made it worse was the following week after Team Liddell's middleweights won their challenge he was on the sidelines yelling "EASY!" and "flawless victory!". As ike Swick pointed out on the voiceover "I don't remember him being so flawless last week".

 

The night they all went out on the piss, my opinion of Koscheck all changed. At this point I began to hate Koscheck. Leben & Southworth had a huge argument culminating with Southworth calling Leben a "fatherless bastard". As Leben's father had left when he was 2 weeks old, this got Leben rather upset. (He was legless at the time, which didn't help). It nearly got physical before Swick, Nate Quarry and a few others got in between them and calmed the situation down. While this was going on, that fucking twat Koscheck was sat at the side giggling and sarcastically saying stuff like "Calm down Chris, don't get so upset".

Eventually Leben amazingly realised that the best idea was to stay away from Southworth and chose to sleep on the front garden away from everyone else. Fast forward 2 hours when everyone else - except Southworth & Koscheck - are asleep. These two twats decide to spray Leben with a hose pipe! Leben had to be held back from chinning Bobby previously and now they want to wake him up by spraying him with water? Leben awoke to the feeling of water and looks up to see a 27 year old & 34 year old giggling at him. He heads towards them but then realises smacking them in the house would mean getting thrown out immediately so instead puts his fist through the front door and then a bedroom door. He completely ripped off a knuckle in the process.

 

Also on the drunk night, Diego Sanchez had to be carried inside completely unable to stand up, and Forrest Griffin looked a right knob in a bright red leather jacket and sunglasses heading into a dark restaurant alongside the others in t-shirts.

 

A potential fallout is brewing early on between Stephan Bonnar and Diego Sanchez. Sanchez seemingly does what he likes regarding food and hygiene. Leaving asparagus storks in the asparagus jar and the bathroom floor wet through every night led to Bonnar having a word with him. Sanchez's only reply was "You're not my dad". Credit to Bonnar, he immediately replied "Possibly not, but we can't be sure".

 

Not a lot of stuff involving Forrest Griffin (aside from a different stupid haircut every few days) or Kenny Florian, but there's still a long way to go.

 

 

EDIT: morning break at work, a few more thoughts ...

 

Nate Quarry appears to be the most ready-to-go Middleweight and he doesn't like all the fucking around in the house. A freak accident in training led to his ankle being fucked and he ended up on crutches. As at episode 6 he is waiting to learn how serious it is.

 

The first guy went out of the house in this series due to his team losing a challenge. Being eliminated after a few days without even having a fight was bullshit. I'm pleased that changed in later series.

 

There is another big guy called Sam on Team Liddell who all of his teammates hate. I can't actually work out why. They make fun of his moobs and he is quiet, but besides that I don't know what has pissed them all off.

Edited October 14, 2013 by dopper

[Egg Shen]

Sam would be Sam Hoger...that guy took endless stick on message boards after TUF aired, he will forever be known as sausage tits.

 

I watched TUF 1 at the time, it was awesome. The challenges they do on the episodes are stupid but it took em a few series playing around with the formula until they got it right. It's crazy how many of the TUF 1 guys went on to have very succesful careers, many of the guys on there remain some of the most popular fighters in MMA. You can't deny how much influence that season had on the sport.

[wandshogun09]

'Sausage Tits' was a class nickname. There were a few nicknames on TUF 1. Leben dubbed Jason Thacker 'Strangebrew' and Bonnar and a few of Team Couture named Alex Shoenauer 'Easy Tappins' because his BJJ was shite.

 

Nate Quarry really annoyed me for some reason. He almost seemed too nice. And him playing peacekeeper and do-gooder all the time got a bit irritating for me. They should've nicknamed him 'Oprah' or something. He seemed to know everything about life. And he nicked Roddy Piper's 'I have come here to kick ass and chew bubblegum...' line. And passed it off as his own. Balls to him.

 

I loved that Bonnar-Diego asparagus argument. I think the line was;

 

Diego: "What are you, my Dad?"

Bonnar: "Well...I don't know if I'm your Dad for sure. But there's a pretty good possibility."

 

And as much as I loathe Koscheck, the bit when he's telling a drunk Diego Sanchez that 'the aliens are coming for him' is great.

 

TUF 1 is quality. I'll go back to it at some point.