MMA: Past Fight Discussion

[wandshogun09]

Don't start me on Dave O'Bollock again Jim.

 

In fairness he might be the nicest bloke you could meet off camera. I don't wish him any ill will. You never see me slag off what he's done as a promoter. It's just his plastic gangster act I find loathsome.

 

For all the good he's done in this country in terms of bringing over top international talent and giving UK fighters a big platform to perform on, he's also been detrimental to MMA's growth here. In my opinion. Whether intentional or not he's created a perception of MMA as being full of thugs and being run by twats for twats. That's how any new viewer would come away feeling if their first exposure to it was an O'Donnell product. Again, just my opinion.

 

His pre-fight patter about "Right bladdy tear ups" and "Proppa well 'ard geezahs" is cringeworthy and makes the sport look like a joke.

 

I love MMA, any MMA, and I want to see it do well here. But while it's promoted and pushed as "Cage Fytin" on Sky, it will be looked at as a tacky, niche 'sport' by most.

[jimufctna24]

i know O'Donnell comes across as a bit of a prat, but he must be some kind of shrewd businessman behind the scenes. MMA promoters seem to come and go but O'Donnell's stayed put, he must know what hes doing behind the scenes, it just sucks to see him front of camera because its clear to see that he harms his own product to fuel his ego. It's a weird fucking thing.

 

Still, fight-wise ive always enjoyed the shows hes put on.

He stuck around true, but after Cage Rage went bust he seems to have lost his mind even more. He is not as relevant these days as he was in 2005-2007.

 

He seemed to have decent connections, but that is about it. I am going to guess (and that all it is a guess) but when the other guy Andy Geer I think left, O' Donnell was in way above his head. What he has done since them has been woeful from what I have seen.

 

Depends on what you like and I enjoyed some Cage Rage shows, but the ones I remember that were live on Sky ranged from entertaining in a car-crash way to utter shite. Tank Abbot vs Gary Turner, Butterbean vs Broughton and Julias Francis crossing over were amusing, but I would watch them with the curtains drawn.

 

Plus fixing fights in such a blatant way is hardly shrewd is it. The video I was of the Reid fight recently proves that.

 

I agree with Wand he has been detrimental to the growth over here in many ways.

Edited October 16, 2012 by jimufctna24

[wandshogun09]

There were some crackin' fackin' tear ups as well though.

 

Melvin Manhoef vs Cyborg Santos

Marius Zaromskis vs Ross Mason

 

Them 2 spring to mind right away. Brad Pickett and Paul Daley had some good fights as well on them shows and of course you had the likes of Anderson, Belfort, Lytle and even Minowa coming over.

 

They did sprinkle some freakshow stuff in but I enjoyed that in small doses.

 

Gary Turner, since he's been mentioned, is one of the nicest guys in the fight game by all accounts. They didn't nickname him 'Smiler' for nowt. Good kickboxer in his day, used to be on Channel 5's excellent and sadly short lived 'Now Is The Time - Night Of Combat' show (anyone remember that?) which used to air at about 4am to probably 3 viewers. One of which was me, I was working nights a lot back then and used to watch that when I got in. Then have about 4 hours sleep, get up for a run and go to Muay Thai class. I couldn't do that shit now

 

Turner didn't do well in MMA for a few reasons, mostly age and injuries.

[Egg Shen]

Turner did alright in the time he competed, he came into the game real late though. He had a cracking tear up with Brazilian prospect Edson Drago (who was tipped for big things) and beat him at a Cage Rage show.

 

Cage Rage was quality, ive said before that it had an almost Pride-esque type booking system where none of it really made sense, just tons of random fights. There was some gold amongst the trash though, and their headliners were always very strange...still lots of fun to watch.

 

Ultimate Challene/Cage Rage UK is definitly a step back talent/name wise but i do enjoy watching the shows when their shown. They tend to dig up some real nasty young fighters too, it's still a decent little breeding ground for UK talent.

 

Ive listed some positives there but im with everyone else, the presentation, ganster shit is fucking terrible, i hate it.

 

As for Ultimate Ball...

Edited October 16, 2012 by Ebb

[wandshogun09]

On about Channel 5's old kickboxing show, I've been looking for stuff online about it and why it was axed, videos, info, anything. There's not much out there. All I could find was that it aired in around 2002-03, was filmed here in Birmingham and was ran by JKO Promotions run by this man on the left;

 

 

Ali Jacko.

 

What I did remember though was the female presenter...

 

 

 

Tasmin Lucia Khan, she popped up on BBC news a few months back but she's disappeared again. I wish I knew it was filmed in Brum at the time, I'd have tried to get to a show and woo Tasmin with my charming Brummie accent.

[Egg Shen]

good lord

[Egg Shen]

rewatching TUF 4 and the 4th episode which focusses on Jeremy Jackon's troubles and him leaving the house was like a horrible preview of what finally lead to Jackson's incarceration

 

oh and Rachelle Leah was the bollocks back in the day.

[wandshogun09]

Rachelle was mega fit back then. She isn't exactly ropey now is she. But she lwas better back then. When she was doing them All Access shows. Anderson Silva seemed quite taken with her as I recall. Wonder if he got All Access? Bet he did.

 

I still most definitely would. If I was single of course. Maybe my girlfriend would allow it if I agreed to let her have a go on Dana or something in Hogan/Bubba the Love Sponge style. Probably not though. No way I'd let her near Frank Mir that's for sure. She'd be dead to me if she so much as hugged that twat.

[jimufctna24]

Rachelle Leah was my pin-up back in my late teens much like Jorgie Porter is now. I got a copy of access all areas with Arlovski and it starts with her in the shower

 

If the rumor about her and Dana is true, than Dana is a lucky git.

 

Never enjoyed TUF 4 as much as others, but I like the comeback angle.

[Magnum Milano]

This is probably the best place for this even though it's not that old, but I've just started watching TUF Brazil. I'm only three episodes in, but the product placement is already extremely annoying; from close ups of the guys drinking from their Xyience cans, to Wandy bringing everyone protein bars and saying how they need to eat them to be fighters, to a bizarre clip of Wandy shaving his arms to promote a shaving company.

 

Really enjoying Wanderlei and his knocks at Belfort, saying what a bore he is with his self-righteous, do-gooder attitude and mocking him when he goes on his longwinded speeches and that he has no idea how boring he is. You can clearly see how much it means to the fighters on this, far moreso than on the US version. So many seen to come from broken homes, or lost parents at a young age, and they see the UFC and the riches it brings as live changing. A couple of cameos from Aldo and JDS, but another strange section at the end of episode 3 where JDS is with the fighters and they start talking about Dengue Fever (it just seemed out of place). Some great assistant coaches in the likes of Babalu, Werdum, Filho etc aswell.

[wandshogun09]

Glad you're enjoying TUF Brazil Magnum. I was bumming it pretty furiously in the TUF Brazil/147 thread at the time but no-one seemed to watch it. If you can get past having to read the subtitled (which never bothered me anyway) it really is worth the time.

 

I was singing the praises of Wolverine, Trinaldo and especially Daniel Sarafian from early on. The first 2 I think will be fun to watch now they're in the right weightclass in the UFC but I think Sarafian could be someone to really keep an eye on.

 

I loved grumpy Wand moaning about Belfort's 'sermons' as he calls them. The product placement is ludicrous though I agree. You've still got Machida visiting the house seemingly just to wave a can of Bony Acai about for the sponsors. Something with Sky TV as well if I recall right.

 

Really loved TUF Brazil though. Seemed like a breath of fresh air and felt a lot different despite the format being no different. You could tell it was massive for the guys on there and it just made the whole show feel more important

[Magnum Milano]

Yeah, I'm not too bothered by the subtitles, though at times it seems like when I'm reading them I'm missing out on something.

 

Sarafian defeated Forte in the episode I've just watched and looked very good in the process. He finished him with a rear naked choke after a beautiful, almost step-over, to take the back. Wolverine talks an awful lot of sense from what I've seen and I was going to say Trinalda hasn't been featured yet, til I realised it's Massaranduba, who I'm really looking forward to watching fight. There is a lot of early focus on Gasparzinho as an almost outsider to the group, and there are some tensions between him and Rodrigo Damm.

[deathrey]

Yeah, I'm not too bothered by the subtitles, though at times it seems like when I'm reading them I'm missing out on something.

[\quote]

 

Yeah, I felt like that at times. I found myself rewinding scenes and watching them again to watch everything that was going on because I missed out the first time reading the subtitles. It was a great series though, I enjoyed it far more than any of the recent US ones, it just goes to show, you can put on an entertaining series without sticking complete arseholes in the house.

 

Just out of interest, I missed the first 3 episodes and have tried to find them online without any luck, where did you find them?

[Magnum Milano]

Just out of interest, I missed the first 3 episodes and have tried to find them online without any luck, where did you find them?

I actually picked the season up in a trade from a guy in Australia (7 DVDs total) and unfortunately wouldn't have any idea where to find them online. Hopefully wand or Ebb if they see this will be able to help you out.

[jimufctna24]

Underachiever - Chael Sonnen 2005-2006

 

 

I never really thought about this until just now when reading some MMA News and reading the last time Chael was at 205lbs was against Babulu. Chael was a part of the UFC's 185lbs and 205lbs class in a time when the 185lbs weight classes could have been open season for him.

 

He started at 205lbs against Babulu, wrong weight class and wrong guy. Babulu from the first Liddel fight to the second one was a beast, one of the best 205lbs in the world with decent wrestling and a slick as fuck submission game. Horrible match-up for Chael on any night and the result reflected that.

 

The proof he had the potential to reign I would say comes in his next fight. Trevor Prangley was a decent top 10 185lbs at the time. He beat Travis Lutter and I felt he did enough to beat Jeremy Horn despite not getting the nod from the judges. Chael beat a prime Prangley at the height of his career but then he ran into Jeremy Horn.

 

Horn was tough as nails and still a reasonable fighter in 2005 despite being around since the dawn of time it seemed. Horn had Chael's number, and despite beating Prangley who was a excellent wrestler, he could not stop Horn from subbing him. Horn was not that good like Babulu was at this point, but still was a horid style match-up for Chael.

 

So Chael got cut at 1-2, and you could not really blame them. However, if we look at the standard of 185lbs at the time, it could have been very different. Horn was a bad style but who else would have posed problems for Chael submission wise in 2006? Lutter went on TUF and everyone else I think Chael matches up with.

 

Chael was able to starve of Prangley in their rematch despite Trevor having 10 submisisons wins in his career. Franklin the Champion at the time had a decent sub game but I could see Chael's wrestling being too much, Tanner and The Crow were again solid but not enough to stop Chael. He had enough to starve of Marquart later on in his career and his friend Matt Lindland was out the door. He would have mauled Chris Leben as well.

 

If Chael had been given a easier route and not taken a debut at 205lbs, he could have maybe beaten Franklin or at least gotten a title shot. Anderson coming in at the middle of 2006 is the only fighter I have a easy time picking Chael to lose to, as well as Horn at 185lbs. People forget Chael trained with the same guys for the first Anderson fight that he did when he fought Babulu and Horn, he was probably a better boxer but his wrestling and control would have been at this stage just as effective.

 

Chaelmania could have been running wild in 2005/2006 if things were a tiny bit different in my view.

Edited October 21, 2012 by jimufctna24