General politics discussion thread

[Van Dammer]

They should give away stock options to the public, not stock itself. If you give stock to the general public, you'll get what happened in Russia in the 90s where very quickly individuals or companies will buy up all the shares and take control of the "public" banks.

 

The "nationalised" banks should be completely restructured - new CEOs with the brief to run the banks as services rather than profit-making companies, with a brief to providing cheap and transparent banking facilities for the British public and small businesses, with dividends a distant second. That would force other private banks to compete in terms of rates and reforms of banking charges and would improve the whole system in this country.

 

 

I agree in principal although the ultimate goal is to sell the nationalised banks back off for profit, stagnating the banking industry (or forcing it to compete) probably wont achieve this.

 

Giving away stock isnt an option, its completely pointless in fact.

 

Its not widely acknowledged but the banks are going in the right direction, major restructuring was required and is taking place and all the nationalised banks are in a much healthier position, despite what share prices suggest compared to when they were bought, the two figures aren't comparable in vastly different economic circumstances.

[Loki]

I don't know if you misread, but I was suggesting giving away Stock Options, which are basically where the company sells you a share at a reduced cost, it's automatically sold at current market value, and you get the difference. It's a way of distributing a kind of dividend without reducing the overall stock.

[Van Dammer]

I don't know if you misread, but I was suggesting giving away Stock Options, which are basically where the company sells you a share at a reduced cost, it's automatically sold at current market value, and you get the difference. It's a way of distributing a kind of dividend without reducing the overall stock.

 

Yeha I understand how it works but it still effectively works as a giveaway, the banks should be sold off in time when they have sufficiently recovered.

[patiirc]

Is QT worth catching up on this week, Fern Britton and David Mitchell on the Panel?

[Magnum]

I caught a bit with Fern more or less justifying bringing the retirement age equality forward on the grounds that she's 'a feminist', and therefore should take the rough of equality with the smooth.

 

A bit easier to be relaxed and feminist on the retirement age issue when you're a millionaire who can pick and choose when you work and aren't ever going to do anything more physically taxing for your money than mouthing off on a couch, I suppose.

[Loki]

Redwood said something interesting last night - that the average public sector pay is now higher than the average private sector pay, after a decade of public sector payrises. That really speaks to an imbalance in the economy, given that all public sector wages come out of the public purse. Given that, I feel slightly less sorry for public sector workers with their large pension schemes and guaranteed payrises. Most people working in the private sector have seen pay freezes for two or three years now, and our pensions are largely self-financed.

[David]

Redwood said something interesting last night - that the average public sector pay is now higher than the average private sector pay, after a decade of public sector payrises. That really speaks to an imbalance in the economy, given that all public sector wages come out of the public purse. Given that, I feel slightly less sorry for public sector workers with their large pension schemes and guaranteed payrises. Most people working in the private sector have seen pay freezes for two or three years now, and our pensions are largely self-financed.

The problem with that is the wages of public sector middle and upper management being taken into account. Such statistics will be used as a stick to beat public sector workers with, and no doubt will be brought up numerous times during strike action.

 

Of course, any kind of pay freeze or pension restriction most likely won't affect those in the "money" positions of public sector work, in much the same way as the majority of job losses will be decided by the very people who are draining the national resources dry with their wages & bonuses. I don't see many management staff putting themselves or their pals forward for redundancy.

 

Regardless of public or private or any other tag they wish to stick on it, the result is still the same. Those who earn next to fuck all and struggle to get by will be the worst affected, whilst those making decent money and bonuses will be okay. As always.

 

Still, if there's some way of turning worker against other workers then I'm sure we'll hear all about it. So long as the regular Joe is too busy pointing the finger at others in the same boat to notice the bigwigs making record profits off their labour everything is rosy.

[JNLister]

Yep, comparing wages of all public sector workers vs all private sector workers is misleading. Public sector has a far higher proportion of professional jobs requiring higher qualifications, whereas private sector is largely dominated by retail, service and manufacturing where much of the workforce is entry level or supervisor.

 

Most accounts I've seen suggest that in directly comparable jobs, eg same experience, qualifications, skills required, it's more likely you'll get higher pay in the private sector.

[Carbomb]

I don't know if you misread, but I was suggesting giving away Stock Options, which are basically where the company sells you a share at a reduced cost, it's automatically sold at current market value, and you get the difference. It's a way of distributing a kind of dividend without reducing the overall stock.

 

Yeha I understand how it works but it still effectively works as a giveaway, the banks should be sold off in time when they have sufficiently recovered.

 

Not to be facetious, but how is it a giveaway? We've paid for those shares.

[Van Dammer]

I don't know if you misread, but I was suggesting giving away Stock Options, which are basically where the company sells you a share at a reduced cost, it's automatically sold at current market value, and you get the difference. It's a way of distributing a kind of dividend without reducing the overall stock.

 

Yeha I understand how it works but it still effectively works as a giveaway, the banks should be sold off in time when they have sufficiently recovered.

 

Not to be facetious, but how is it a giveaway? We've paid for those shares.

 

Well 'we' have and haven't. Its the football club mentality, I pay for a season ticket so I pay the players wages and its my club when in reality its not the case. Do you give shares to people that haven't paid a penny of national insurance in their life? In the past our taxes have paid for gold and commodities yet it doesnt mean we are entitled to have them handed to us. Its a non starter and Clegg knows it.

[Carbomb]

I don't know if you misread, but I was suggesting giving away Stock Options, which are basically where the company sells you a share at a reduced cost, it's automatically sold at current market value, and you get the difference. It's a way of distributing a kind of dividend without reducing the overall stock.

 

Yeha I understand how it works but it still effectively works as a giveaway, the banks should be sold off in time when they have sufficiently recovered.

 

Not to be facetious, but how is it a giveaway? We've paid for those shares.

 

Well 'we' have and haven't. Its the football club mentality, I pay for a season ticket so I pay the players wages and its my club when in reality its not the case. Do you give shares to people that haven't paid a penny of national insurance in their life? In the past our taxes have paid for gold and commodities yet it doesnt mean we are entitled to have them handed to us. Its a non starter and Clegg knows it.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it was stated in that article that Clegg was proposing that the shares should go to people on the National Insurance register and on the electoral roll. Doesn't sound like he's proposing giving said shares to non-payers of tax.

[Van Dammer]

I don't know if you misread, but I was suggesting giving away Stock Options, which are basically where the company sells you a share at a reduced cost, it's automatically sold at current market value, and you get the difference. It's a way of distributing a kind of dividend without reducing the overall stock.

 

Yeha I understand how it works but it still effectively works as a giveaway, the banks should be sold off in time when they have sufficiently recovered.

 

Not to be facetious, but how is it a giveaway? We've paid for those shares.

 

Well 'we' have and haven't. Its the football club mentality, I pay for a season ticket so I pay the players wages and its my club when in reality its not the case. Do you give shares to people that haven't paid a penny of national insurance in their life? In the past our taxes have paid for gold and commodities yet it doesnt mean we are entitled to have them handed to us. Its a non starter and Clegg knows it.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it was stated in that article that Clegg was proposing that the shares should go to people on the National Insurance register and on the electoral roll. Doesn't sound like he's proposing giving said shares to non-payers of tax.

 

I didnt say we were, I was asking. I had only heard it was being proposed for people on the electoral role.

 

EDIT: Scanned the article and its not really definitive either way, just says either/or really. It just throws up another major issue with the idea.

Edited June 27, 2011 by Van Dammer

[The King Of Swing]

Just watching the news of and to think there are idiots who think we should also have joined the Euro and still support the corrupt, undemocratic joke that is the EU.

[Carbomb]

Just watching the news of and to think there are idiots who think we should...still support the corrupt, undemocratic joke that is the EU.

 

As opposed to the corrupt, undemocratic joke that is the British government?

[The King Of Swing]

Are you under the impression that I have any faith in our Government?