Dr.PeterVenkman Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 What were the plans for Shawn Michaels if he hadn't fucked his back at Rumble '98? For some reason I could 've seen him turning face after Mania 14 and feuding with a still heel DX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members garynysmon Posted October 18, 2013 Paid Members Share Posted October 18, 2013 What were the plans for Shawn Michaels if he hadn't fucked his back at Rumble '98? For some reason I could 've seen him turning face after Mania 14 and feuding with a still heel DX Â I don't think that would have been necessary as DX with HBK on board had plenty of mileage in it. The reason Wrestlemania 14 finished as it did was because they knew HBK was fucked and wouldn't be coming back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted October 18, 2013 Paid Members Share Posted October 18, 2013 (edited) He was going to feud with Owen Hart and put him over. Of course he was never going to actually do it, but that's what he'd "agreed" to do. Â Its interesting thinking back, because in late 97/early 98 the WWF thought it was essential to replace Bret as the Canadian star, so they felt they had to get Owen strong for when they went back to Canada. He was getting a big push in January and February. Then WWF blew up so massive post WrestleMania, there was no need for local stars. Austin, DX, Mankind and the likes were drawing everywhere they went. So it went from a situation where they felt they had to make Owen a star for the Canadian market to WWF being bigger than ever everywhere they went. Edited October 18, 2013 by IANdrewDiceClay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.PeterVenkman Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 I imagine he probably told Owen he'd happily put him over while crying or something, I know it's not exactly the best source to get an idea of what Michaels was like in the late 90's but Bret's book makes him sound like he was all over the place either crying and slagging himself off or being cocky as fuck, the drugs definitely didn't work for HBK Â Never rated Owen as a face anyway so I imagine their matches would have been wank anyway, except for the comedy value of Michaels fucking him about during the match Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted October 18, 2013 Paid Members Share Posted October 18, 2013 Owen and Michaels matches were always brilliant. They had an absolute belter with Michaels as a heel in 97. That feud would have probably been awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.PeterVenkman Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Was that on Raw between D-Generation X and Rumble '98? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members air_raid Posted October 18, 2013 Paid Members Share Posted October 18, 2013 Was that on Raw between D-Generation X and Rumble '98? Â That was one, there was also a really good one on the October 20th Raw Iintercontinental v European title where Owen played pseudo-face, during that month where the Harts, DX and the Nation were all at each others' throats despite all being heels. I think Bret wrestled Farooq on the same show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted October 18, 2013 Paid Members Share Posted October 18, 2013 (edited) I always thought they had amazing chemistry. Far more than Bret and Shawn had. Owen and Shawn seemed to only ever have one speed when they were wrestling each other. It was so fast paced. Edited October 18, 2013 by IANdrewDiceClay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Paul's Bin Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Watching Hell In A Cell 2009. I've noticed the crowd chanting 'Cena Sucks' and 'Let's Go Cena'. Now I didn't watch WWE around 2009 and this is the earliest I've seen these chants. Â Now my question is, when did the chants first begin? I'm surprised to see they've happened for the past 4 YEARS, at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members air_raid Posted October 21, 2013 Paid Members Share Posted October 21, 2013 Watching Hell In A Cell 2009. I've noticed the crowd chanting 'Cena Sucks' and 'Let's Go Cena'. Now I didn't watch WWE around 2009 and this is the earliest I've seen these chants. Now my question is, when did the chants first begin? I'm surprised to see they've happened for the past 4 YEARS, at least.  I don't know about the duelling chants in particular but the mixed vocal reactions to Cena started (IIRC) in 2005. He maintained his popularity through most of his US title runs but response to his WWE title win at 'Mania seemed lukewarm, and his runs with Christian, Jericho and then especially Kurt Angle divided the live crowds. It was during the Angle run especially that I first noticed some towns coming close to 100% boos for Cena and cheers in favour of his enemy. "Something's gone a bit wrong here" I thought. It wouldn't surprise me if the chants started at the same time.  Anyone that remembers Cena getting booed earlier, please enlighten me. I gave SmackDown a miss for almost the entirety of JBL's title reign and have had to catch up with bits of it retrospectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dopper Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 (edited) First time I noticed them was during the Chris Jericho vs Lance Storm match at ECW One Night Stand in June 2005. Â I think that summer there were a few in certain arenas, and WrestleMania 22 was the first time I remember the crowd really getting behind Cena's opponent, as they have done at each of the seven WrestleMania's since. Â It's noticeable during the same spots back then that still draw those reactions to this day, the five knuckle shuffle etc. Â But it has always struck me as strange that they would work the "Boo! Yay! Boo! Yay!" trading punches spot into all of these matches where Cena gets negative reactions. It's as though they are welcoming that response. Edited October 21, 2013 by dopper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vamp Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 but response to his WWE title win at 'Mania seemed lukewarm, and his runs with Christian, Jericho and then especially Kurt Angle divided the live crowds. Â They buggered up that 'Mania win and that cost him quite a bit I think. There was him celebrating like it was a huge moment in the middle of the card after a short dull match that the fans didn't care about because it wasn't workrate heavy and because it wasn't a main event. 'Mania audiences are a bitch. Its pretty singificant, to my mind at least, that those bad runs he had were against Christian, Jericho, Angle and Edge, work rate heavy guys who had the support of a certain section fo the audience. They seemed to give up on trying to get Cena cheered during the Angle feud. Angle was having a shitty time himself with the Booker feud, but there was no way anyone thought Angle's "I want to make Jesus tap" Gene Hunt promo would get him booed and Cena cheered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members air_raid Posted October 21, 2013 Paid Members Share Posted October 21, 2013 They buggered up that 'Mania win and that cost him quite a bit I think. There was him celebrating like it was a huge moment in the middle of the card after a short dull match that the fans didn't care about because it wasn't workrate heavy and because it wasn't a main event. Â I also think it suffered quite a bit from the ludicrously predictable nature of the result. I watched that Mania with a few friends and there was a collective shrug before it started of "this is where Cena wins the belt, then" and I imagine we weren't the only ones. Not saying that a predictable result is always bad, if it's a result your fanbase really wants to see, you'll still get a decent atmosphere. If I can sum up the feeling I had about that result, it would mostly be relief that JBL's interminable reign was finally over. Â I understand the theory of a long title reign to build a strong heel champion, but between winning the belt in a lucky manner without pinning anyone and an initial string of title defences where he kept retaining without pinning anyone and generally being booked "lucky" rather than "good" I always felt JBL looked way out of his depth as champion, his sudden promotion from Acolyte to main eventer didn't help, and it hurt Cena for me that he essentially took the belt from a nobody. Anybody half-decent could have beaten JBL on a good day in my eyes and Cena beating Kurt Angle at No Way Out the month before in a decent-length, competitive match with a strong finishing sequence made him look far more of a player than actually winning the title did. By the time Mania came around the strongest positive thought they had out of me with Cena was "at least he'll be better to watch on top than JBL." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vamp Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Yeah, I think that's also true to a certain extent. Paint by numbers is sensible and sound, and can make for some wonderful moments if there's the anticipation to the inevitable (see the Batista/Trips feud of the same year) but in Cena's case there just wasn't any anticipation. Its strange that in some ways they've been building Cena up since his very first match but that moment when he won the title which you'd think of as being his crowning moment is really quite underplayed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members air_raid Posted October 21, 2013 Paid Members Share Posted October 21, 2013 (edited) Its strange that in some ways they've been building Cena up since his very first match but that moment when he won the title which you'd think of as being his crowning moment is really quite underplayed. Â I often think the length of build-up for Cena was detrimental to him. When was just turning face, he was hot. He had main event level tussles with Benoit and Lesnar at the end of 2003 and had already been in the ring with Lesnar, Undertaker and Angle on PPV, the latter being his last PPV match before turning at No Mercy, which was really competitive and well-received. As 2003 rolled over into 2004, he was already ready to be positioned as a main eventer. He was mixing with potential winners in the tail end of the Rumble and didn't look out of place and I always felt the live crowd was a little deflated at Angle winning the top contenders three way at No Way Out 2004 instead of him, and if you look at the programs he had to work for the next twelve months (including his stupidly long run with Booker T) they feel like at best killing time, and at worst a step backwards. They should have struck while the iron was hot, and even if he wasn't ready to be "the man" he still shouldn't have been anywhere near the undercard US title which was already beneath the star he had become by the time he won it the first time. Edited October 21, 2013 by air_raid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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