tiger_rick

I'm pretty sure there is no Undertaker gimmick without Mean Mark. The story was that Vince thought he looked like an old-time Undertaker and came up with the gimmick from that rather than having had the idea and been looking for a guy to fill it. Also, given they were looking for something for him around that time, if it was the other way around, it would have been John Nord!

Beat me to it. Big fan of Ground Force back in the day and not just for Charlie Dimmock's nipples. Tommy was a proper salt of the earth type that probably wouldn't have been on TV 20 years earlier but were all the rage in the late 90s. Probably why reality TV and later YouTube took off. People like seeing real people and you only really saw them on game shows and talent contests. They certainly weren't presenting. Didn't get as into his other shows but he was always good on the ones I saw. Dunno what he was like off-screen. Disclaimer given everyone turns out to be a peado or a nazi these days!

Like several other people in the "Against the grain" thread, I have a love/hate reationship with The Undertaker. So I thought I'd start a thread and perhaps a series of them because there are plenty of divisive characters in wrestling who you love sometimes and hate like a Canadian crowd at others. With Taker, I actually think the hate part is easiest. Firstly, the big red elephant in the room, he's a right-wing numpty. In many ways, I wish he'd protected his character forever because then I wouldn't have had to know. I had soured on him long before that all became obvious. His lockerroom leader shit always came across as pathetic. His shitting up of the Invasion angle was classless. His whole "Booger Red" run was terrible. For someone with these exacting standards that he was always keen to hammer others for, he was a willing participant in some of the worst angles and matches in wrestling history, right up until that vegetitive state stuff with Kane that was some of their worst stuff ever. His constant diminishing returns were already sad when I was still an occassional viewer pre-Covid. Despite all that, I loved Taker at one point. There's never been a time when he was my favourite but, like the WWF, he was always my number 2 or 3 babyface and I'd generally be into his work, even when he was fighting the most lumbering heels ever. The real good: His debut at Survivor Series '90 is still brilliant. I must have seen it a hundred times. He's an instant hit with everyone and you can see why. The title win at Survivor Series '91 is a great moment. I dunno when I first saw that, I suspect I rented the tape from the video shop. But I loved him like a babyface by then already. Around that same time, I saw Battle Royal at the Albert Hall and his entrance on that show has always stuck with me. The face turn. I definitely saw the actual turn, whcih is brilliant, years later, so he was just a face by mid-1992 and I loved that we could cheer him. I just wish there was some reward for it over the next three years. Even though I liked him through the feuds with Kamala, Gonzalez, Mabel, Bundy, etc, there was only really the Yoko feud that offered some proper hope that he'd win the belt and that was squashed pretty comprehensively by 47 heels and some dastardly smoke. RIP Marty. 1996 Taker is great. Mick Foley gets a lot of credit for it, and he deserves it but the Diesel feud and match are brilliant too. Paul Bearer's heel-turn was pretty devastating to me as a teenager which emphasises how much I still liked the big man. I really liked him in 1997 too. If we graphed out my love for Taker, this would be the peak. Him actually going for titles, being part of incredible business like the final four and the cage match before Mania and being somewhat relatable on interviews like the final 4 was good stuff and then he'd start the best storyline of his career and have the second best match in company history with Shawn at Badd Blood. The whole Kane angle into and throughout 1998 and then the transition to him and Austin for SummerSlam is so good too. I'm skipping to 2000 next, because his 1999 was dogshit. He was clever enough to go away for a bit though and I was hyped as fuck for his return. Biker or no biker, that's one of my favourite re-debuts ever. Felt like there were loads in this era, because most of the guys had necks made of weetabix but this might be my favourite. The momentum didn't last long but there were still some highlights like him getting knocked out of the Rumble by Maven and that great match with Lesnar in the cage. I'm not sure there's much more I love. He went on to have some decent matches but not much that I really liked. That closing stretch of Royal Rumble with HBK was probably the only thing. That was great. Was it 2007? I haven't included the breaking of the streak because I wasn't really that in at that point and didn't even see the show for years. Can understand if it's big in other people's fandom, hopefully they'll discuss it. Let's talk about the good and bad of the Undertaker!

Soldier Field is amazing. Incredibly sad that one of the few NFL stadiums with any character whatsoever is not long for the world - of NFL anyway. Also, I like to end that story with "I saw a game at Soldier Field". Gets people jealous. No need to mention it was Chicago Fire, was a third full and is one of the worst soccer games I've ever seen. Chargers now 0-8. Starting to worry they might not make the play-offs this year.

Kev already on the phone to WCW's crack FX team.

Really fun episode of Collision. Obviously love whenever they do something a bit creative with their shows and I actually remembered about Collision on a Sunday morning and watched it when I got up so that's a novelty. The show for the most part looked a bit shit and dingy and gave early Shotgun Saturday Night vibes. I bloody love that it makes TV in 2026 after years of everything being so polished and perfect. Loved most of the shots and angles where they used the ship. The Death Riders entrance and the Cut promo particularly. Enjoyed the Mercedes interaction. Clever to do it when Marina wasn't around. That whole heat segment was completely necessary but that's quite a few on The Cut now and it'll heat up this match, mainly because the Death Riders are great but I think their long-term prospects don't exist. Yes, it's so good. I really don't like Nick Wayne and two weeks ago would happily have never seen him again and in those couple of weeks of TV, they've absolutely smashed it out of the park. Did Chris Jericho get someone over? Broken record territory but I just don't agree. This roster is huge, there are so many great wrestlers who need stuff to get their teeth into and not having this and the other belts would rob us of a match like this that felt big enough to headline a TV show and gave Ciampa a great moment. Agree on getting the belt of Andrade. He needs to tell Renee on Wednesday that he has bigger fish to fry.

Not in Virg's league.

Fucking bait.

I'm with you on the pinfalls, I think that would be an improvement. This is a nonsense though. It's always been a nonsense because it's a major part of the match and if you don't want it, the easy opition is to just not do "Wargames". Just have a tag match or elimination match in the cage. I think think show more than any proved it as a nonsense though. The women's match was really good throughout and the work, the spots and the drama were high enough to not need the prospect of a finish to enhance it. The men's match was WAY better before the "match beyond" kicked in. That was the point the silliness ramped up and the convoluted finish came into sighy. The part before that was well paced, featured loads of great stuff from the guys arriving into the match and the swings between heel advantage and babyface fire that make Wargames special. I think you've hit the nail on the head. The big problem with the match, other than there being two of them, was the need to not just have a pinfall finish it. They really should alternate mens and womens B&G matches. That would really help them. I don't actually mind it being an annual event in AEW but they've got a great advantage with it being a TV special in that it can happen any time. So it can feel more organic than just being part of the calendar. Big sumer feud? Do it in August. Quiet for storylines in the autumn, do it in early December. In the middle? One doesn't even have a roof. It's got the name and fuck all else.

Anyone got a Kay's catalogue, circa 1993?

That was my thought when I watched the video too. It's a fun concept and I enjoyed the outcome but having played almost every one of those games, they were all shit!

I thought this was a great show until right near the end. Not perfect, in any sense. I'm not really a fan of everyone bringing in weapons. It's unnecessary, although slightly more acceptable in the women's one. The women's match also desensitized me to the men's one somewhat. They also did that bloody staredown spot every modern booker loves. That said, I mostly enjoyed both matches. The video at the beginning was a lovely bit of production and whet the appetite. Renee looked incredible in her on-brand camo pants. The women's being a bloodbath is uncomfortable, can't lie, but those women are awesome and that shone through. Sky blue, who I'm not high on, was a bit of a star with her charisma finding the camera. I've not seen that in her before. Harley's ukelele with "JJ" written on it was funny stuff. Julia Hart looked a complete fadge giving up after everyone else had been through hell but someone's gotta lose. I liked quite a few things in the men's match beyond the big spots and moves,. Everyone bringing in a weapon is shit but when Wardlow came in unarmed and Skiavone pointed out that he had two weapons, his arms, that was beautiful stuff. Wardlow was incredible, bar one stumble with Cope. That senton and the subsequent facials should be star-making. One night to remind you this guy is the business. Has the best punches in the game too. Speaking of Cope, the fans singing his theme while the match went on was lovely stuff. As was okada bringing in a leaf blower to clear up the thumbtacks and continuing to clean up while a Jackson brother was smashing him with forearms. I'm still laughing now. I don't think they do "Wargames" like it should be done. That's a criticism I've made of WWE for years and while AEW do it a bit more brutally, it's still not right. It showcased the talent well. They all got some great stuff in and everyone looked pretty incredible. But the flaw in the way they present the match is obvious in that last 10 mins or so. It had been incredibly fun up to that point but then they have to add a load of bells and whistles that wouldn't be necessary with real heat and real stakes. Shit exploding, spots off the cage, etc. It's just not needed. Finish was weak too. At least julia Hart is a heel who looked like a twat. Cope is this legendary babyface character and just looks shite being put in that position. They should have put a stipulation for the Fletcher/Ospreay match on the line and had Fletcher beat Ospreay. The last bit did at least look good and made Wardlow look like a monster. Darby is a mad bastard. Every segment that wasn't B&G was good. The trios stuff continues to excel. What a great story this all is with New Level getting drawn in and Bandido being an absolute killer. Moxley and OC was predictable but so well done. Of course they announced it immediately even though OC didn't actually agree! Marina did a good job on the mic. Nick Wayne was great too. Fuck, this div is growing on me. Also, Collision looks banging this week on the cruise.

I had a great time watching all the segments from a lot of the nightly US shows this morning. Despite all these people talking about the "shillacking" the GOP got, I can't get over the fucking state of American TV people. I have to do courses at work to see if I can pick out an AI from a real person. I can't even pick out real people from real people with this lot. Top middle looks like the next mayor of Lazytown. Top right is a Fast Show skit.

Was looking out for this one after Haley Stevens video endorsing Mike Rogers, despite claiming she's a Democrat. Daft cow would rather endorse a bigot in the opposition than a brown person in her own party. Hopefully, she's been shot into the sun.

Scotty Parker's cardigan collection is out of storage this morning. New gaffer at West 'aaaaaam. Genuinely feels like a match made in heaven. An aside but in the things you forgot happened category, the story about him being linked with the Hammers reminded me that he was the FWA Player Of the Year in 2011. Mental.

If he wasn't so dangerous, you'd absolutely adore Trump's oblivious heel character. I mean just look at this quote from his Bullshit Social account "I wasn't on the Ballot and if I was, we would have won IN A LANDSLIDE!" One of my favourite characters in pro-wrestling has always been the jabroni who thinks he's brilliant. Trump takes that to the extreme. Like others, it gave me a spring in my step this morning. Gives a little bit of hope that eyes are being opened all over the world to these cunts but, as JB expertly says, in the US at least, they'll accept most things if Gas and the supermarket shop are cheap.

Chico U N Torres

Putting on a "Classic" tournament in December for a title belt is a novel concept. Dunno how they come up with them? Edit: Fucking hell, they've already got the replica belt on sale for $800. Absolutely creaming those marks.

Dogshit PPV in a dogshit year. There's a Great Muta comp from 1989 WCW up on the Vault that's well worth a watch.

Nuno's got the sack again. Even Marty Jannetty says he should give it up.

Anyone going?

I was defending both promotions for their dependence on titles. Thought that was obvious. No, I wouldn't call anyone on here that. The argument that AEW have too many titles is definitely made on here often though and I don't see anyone saying it about WWE.

The 15 going are all Bacon's burner accounts.

The 2027 Asian Cup, scheduled to be held in Saudi from Jan-Feb 27, has been postponed to Dec 27-Jan 28 due to "exceptional ⁠circumstances arising from developments in the region". FWIW, I think the Asian Cup is a much riskier event than a WWE PPV due to the amount of people affected and the politics involved with the rival nations but, I think when an event this big is cancelled, it shows it's just not worth the risk.

I've said this for years going back to prior to AEW's existence but Titles and Title matches have been a massive part of WWE's booking forever and AEW's for most of it's existence. Because for the most part, title matches and title shots are the only things fans buy into. There have been exceptions, particularly in AEW, with some well booked blood feuds that didn't need any bells and whistles but, any match that isn't for anything is almost always a throwaway and has been for at least the last decade. There's a reason WWE had a hundred titles too at one point and even now, has AAA title matches on their TV - which I don't see any complaint about by the bad faith actors for some reason. One of the best parts of early AEW were the rankings, which while they did have some title conotations, did create a system which allowed matches to be for something without overtly having to be for a title match or title shot. I really miss that. The current best of 5 series between FTR and MCMG is sort of on those lines but could definitely benefit from FTR being the #2 team in a tag team rankings and the MCMG being able to outright knock them off their perch.