Official ROH Discussion Thread

[alexander]

I was just looking through this thread and I realised that Nigel is missing from quite a few shows in the first half of 2006, specifically the Milestone Series. He was Pure Champion at the time too, where was he?

Touring with Pro Wrestling NOAH.

[spurs 4 life]

Just watched Driven. An enjoyable ppv that did a good job in furthering storylines and introducing talent. Loved the opener but hated Claudio/Sydal and Whitmer/Marafuji... I would certainly recommend watching if you get the chance if only for the chance to see a Delirious promo and Larry Sweeney.

[gadge]

Finished the 'A Fight at the Roxbury' DVD. Brent Albright vs BJ Whitmer is not really worth discussing as a match, it's there to further an angle - that is, the increasing frustration of Whitmer since he lost the feud to Jimmy Jacobs. The frustration gets the better of Whitmer here, as he snaps and headbuts the referee(!). That's not the end of the night's ref controversies.It's not listed on the DVD sleeve, but there's then a segment with Daizee Haze, Jimmy Jacobs and Lacey that nicely hypes a match between them the next night. Bryan Danielson vs Jimmy Rave is a really good, much shorter match between them than their 4th anniversary show World title match some 16 months previously. A friend of mine who only vaguely follows ROH watched that match recently and hated it, citing the fact it looked faked, with overly long and contrived holds that generally "took the piss". This match has Danielson being much more aggressive, lots of striking, and while I liked the original match, I'd say this one is better. Mark Briscoe in singles isn't something that happens often. Mark vs Kevin Steen here way surpassed my expectations, as Steen entered probably his best ROH singles performance (way better than those of 2005) and really laid on the dick heel stuff, which gave Mark the opportunity to be all fire and aggression, only for Steen to get one over on him clean, which really helps the Steenerico push. I like. 2005-6 largely saw fan apathy for the ROH card staple that is the Four Corner Survival. Mainly they were very similar, and largely unspectacular. In 2007, there have been some little talked about 4CS that have been pretty good, with plenty of the spectacular action, and the one here certainly qualifies. In a #1 contendership match, Nigel McGuinness faces Claudio Castagnoli, Chris Hero and Mike Quackenbush. Quack has been as good in ROH as his rep elsewhere, of which I've seen enough to know what he's like but not seen his best stuff. I only say that as it doesn't always happen (see: Steen and Generico in 2005, Pac this year). Him bringing the lucha in the early part of the match and sending everyone else flying around (in a match with everyone being of a good size) is lots of fun. In the storyline, Claudio has selected Hero as a partner for a 2/3 falls match with the Briscoes the next night, and they then take over on Quack, while never being completely trusting. Nigel only gets short bursts in the match, but it makes lots of lariats in short bursts feel like a good thing instead of overkill. Then of course, there's the four way sprint finish. Lots of good stuff in this one, Claudio gets the win, but Nigel ends up with a title shot first, as Claudio's shot comes on the following show in the same venue, which I like as booking goes. Intermission, and this is a killer show at this point. The post intermission warm-up match is fun, as local boy with some NOAH experience Eddie Edwards continues his streak of good fun low card matches , this one vs Pelle Primeau. This is competitive in the time allowed, though the commentary treats it with the little seriousness. Matt Sydal vs El Generico is a weird contrast to Generico's partner Steen's serious grudge match with Mark Briscoe. The lack of backstory and tentative start gets little crowd reaction, but as the pace picks up there's duelling chants (for no obvious reason, though it does seem to be seperate sets of fan support), there's some good stuff on the floor, and some nearfalls that are a bit too close to a three count, including one that appears to be almost a four count that looks so awful, it has to be mentioned in commentary (the first 'count' was disregarded as the ref getting into position). The action is very dynamic in the second half, I'd count the possibility that they threw almost all their stuff out there as a negative if it wasn't for the fact they probably knew Sydal was WWE-bound, so there wouldn't be a rematch. Grudge six man action in the semi-main, as the No Remorse Corps take on the leaderless Resilience of Erick Stevens (who I'm really into at the moment, choo choo) and Matt Cross (who doesnt impress me enough with what he can do athletically to make me overlook his overall shitness), and Delirious. I've not been overly impressed with the matches of the NRC as a faction, but progressively got into this one nicely, and the crowd was back with things after taking a while to warm up after the intermission. Thankfully, Stevens is the one who works the bulk of the match and takes the NRC beatdown, so Cross is limited to a few highspots that he hits cleanly, and in the closing stretch, Delirious is able to get a pin on Roderick to advance that feud. Yeah, I liked this one as well. Takeshi Morishima's dominating title matches have very quickly become something to look forward to, and Jay Briscoe's shots at Samoa Joe were two of my favourite matches from the first nine months of Joe's reign. I was hoping for similar stuff here. I went away mostly satisfied. This felt a bit shorter than the three defenses in April, probably a fair reflection on Jay's standing as a singles competitor compared to Nigel, Aries and SHINGO. While at home I didn't feel the 'OMG there could be a title change' vibe of some of the concluding parts as much as the equivalent stages of Mori's defenses against Aries and SHINGO, the big flurry Jay gets is still good and gets a huge reaction. Jay Briscoe certainly knows how to play title challenger well against the monster champ. I liked that the first backdrop driver ended the match, as this wasn't a match to see the champ's finisher kicked out of. Overall, this was a really good show. It's only just over 2 hours 34 minutes on DVD, and the final match ends before the 2 hours 30 mark, so those looking for value for money could perhaps go for Good Times, Great Memories or Respect is Earned first, but those following the majority of shows need to see this one. Next, I've got disc 2 of King of Europe Cup to watch, but I can still see myself delaying that so I can follow this with 'Domination' from Philly, even though it's missing a match that's on the second PPV

[Philjax]

"Driven" is the second PPV yes?

[gadge]

Yes, it is. It was taped on June 23rd, which is annoying as I already have the July DVDs in or on the wy, which leaves a gap, and I don't like the alternative options.

[Barearse]

I haven't watched any ROH since Battle of St. Paul, and was wondering if someone could tell me where the 2 PPV events fit in best when viewing? I have every show from that point just haven't got round to watching yet. Cheers

[Guest Josh Jenkins]

So, Misawa's opponent for New York City is..KENTA

[LaGoosh]

Boring.

[Guest Josh Jenkins]

Boring.

I'm expecting a good match, but when you've finally got Misawa over to the US why the hell would you put him in a match with somebody he could easily have a match with over in Japan?

[$tew]

Boring.

I'm expecting a good match, but when you've finally got Misawa over to the US why the hell would you put him in a match with somebody he could easily have a match with over in Japan?

What's the option?I mean, apart from the likes of McGuinness and Doug Williams, who are NOAH regulars anyway, who in ROH could have a good match with Misawa in ROH?

[Guest Josh Jenkins]

Boring.

I'm expecting a good match, but when you've finally got Misawa over to the US why the hell would you put him in a match with somebody he could easily have a match with over in Japan?

What's the option?I mean, apart from the likes of McGuinness and Doug Williams, who are NOAH regulars anyway, who in ROH could have a good match with Misawa in ROH?

I'd expect Dragon to have a cracker with him.It doesn't need to be a 5 star classic, as long as somebody gets the rub from wrestling Misawa. KENTA doesn't need it, where as there are a few wrestlers on the roster that could benefit from it.

[gadge]

In addition to Misawa vs KENTA, the next Manhattan show will also have new champ Nigel vs the winner of the Danielson/Aries best of three matches series they're doing (and Aries is 1-0 up), and Morishima vs the loser of the same series. Firstly, i'm shocked by the negative reaction to Nigel's title win in the results thread here from Edison on saturday.Secondly, if Nigel faces Aries for the title, then the attendees at PWG in Portsmouth in eleven nights (including me) get a cool preview. Thirdly, another Danielson vs Morishima match, in NYC, would be insane, especially as Danielson would probably get the win this time.

[gadge]

Spoiler filled thoughts on the good but short DVD of Domination, the event held in Philadelphia on June 9th, which is missing the Danielson vs McGuinness match from that night as it's on the Driven PPV... Matt Sydal vs Hallowicked - what with his series with Delirious, and a win over El Generico the previous night, Sydal comes out more confidant than usual in his chances of beating the masked man. The CHIKARA crew are all doing well in the early stages of their ROH runs, and 'wicked pushes Sydal all the way in a fast paced encounter which opens the show nicely. Sydal gets the win with his damn fine SSP, which will probably fall by the wayside by the time he makes it to WWE TV. Lacey vs Daizee Haze - even though Lacey and Jimmy Jacobs tricked the Haze into a beating the previous night, and they were involved in a Streetfight on the previous Philly show, Lacey decides she wants a clean, athletic wrestling match here. A good wrestling match then ensues, Haze keeps her focus, and Lacey ends up having to bail out at the concluding stages as the match goes to a ten minute draw that entertains for the duration. Kevin Steen and El Generico vs Mike Quackenbush and Jigsaw - this is probaly the showstealer match on the show as it stands on DVD. The insane spotfest tag has probably become the trademark feature of ROH since the Briscoes finally clicked with Aries and Strong in the third match of their series in Liverpool at Unified. The thing that sets this one apart in the abscence of the Briscoes. Track this down and see for yourself, as long as 'insane spotfest tag' didn't put you off a couple of sentences ago. Matt Cross vs Davey Richards - Cross has definitely been the weak link in the early faction warfare matches in ROH since the former members of Gen Next split up. Richards meanwhile has been much less watchable since he went heel by joining the NRC. That said, I didn't mind the match here, though i don't remember much about it. I do remember Cross getting beat down afterwards until Erick Stevens and Delirious made the save...Rocky Romero vs Delirious follows straight on from that, and I enjoyed this. I'm a fan of both guys, which probably helps, as I know the push of Delirious in the second half of 2006 didn't go down to well on here. I'm not certain, but I *think* Delirious won by a flash pin then they had another NRC beatdown-Resilience save-melee. In other words, there will be many more matches between the NRC and the Resilience/Delirious, so this one doesn't really matter too much.BJ Whitmer vs Brent Albright vs Erick Stevens vs Jimmy Rave - CHOO CHOO! I'm really high on Stevens, and hope ROH can make a big time player out of him rather than him dropping into the faction warfare angle and not coming out on the other side. He certainly looks like he belongs here. I know Rave doesn't have much time left in ROH at this point, but it's not relevent too much, as the main story of the match is BJ Whitmer's frustration continuing. The poor ref who Whitmer headbutted the previous night is again the ref here, though he avoids the same fate. Brent Albright is the man to take the momentum from this one, as he seals another loss for BJ with his half nelson suplex. I have to say I'm disappointed by Albright, as I hoped he'd have shined more in ROH after his WWE release, and his push towards a title match here doesn't feel right (though reports of his title match were good). 2 out of 3 falls ROH World Tag Team Title match - Jay and Mark Briscoe vs Chris Hero and Claudio Castagnoli - Really, really fun match. I wasn't sure when they started it, but between this and the Briscoes/Steenerico 2 out of 3 I saw live in Manhattan in August, I'm really liking the gimmick where the Briscoes retain in 2 straight falls. On first thought, it doesn't make sense, but in reality, matches ending at around the 20 minute mark like this one feel right, whereas a third fall would either necessitate more time, and perhaps run out of energy, or make the match feel too short at this length. Plus, with the matches being tags, there is no need for one guy to lose both falls. Anyway, the setup for this is that the Briscoes and the Kings of Wrestling split a pair of matches in December 2006 (when the Briscoes weren't champions, and Hero and Claudio were a proper team). After stealing the show against the Briscoes at Respect is Earned (kayfabe opinion, not mine), Claudio and Matt Sydal were both offered rematches with the Briscoes with partners of their own choosing. Claudio chose Hero, as they held the belts before, and to try and make Hero see sense and abandon Larry Sweeney's management. There's no dissension between Hero and Claudio, but Claudio does get distracted by Sweeney once or twice, which just keeps things interesting. Hero gets killed by a Jay Driller for the first fall at about 10-11 minutes, so Claudio starts the second fall solo, but Hero does come back and show the desire to win the match, which makes you think they have a chance at winning. This being ROH, the concluding parts then ramp up the pace and insanity, until Claudio goes down to the springboard doomsday device. This is a lot like the Final Battle 2006 match, but better I'd say.ROH World Title match - Takeshi Morishima vs Roderick Strong. Strong doesn't really fit the role of challenger for Morishima that well, being a heel faction leader challenging the monster heel champion. The size disadvantage also hampers his opportunity to use the explosive offense he could use back when making hot tags in his face teams with Aries and Evans. As a result, the first half of the match plays out before a subdued crowd. At around the ten minute mark the action does get good, and Morishima has picked up the trademark of Samoa Joe's reign - many of his defences have one or two nearfalls that *everyone* in the building buys as a potential title change for that one moment. I was surprised when Strong manageed to break up the count after a backdrop driver by getting his foot on the ropes, but a second backdrop driver pinned him at just after the 13 minute mark. An easier win for Morishima, then, concluding the main part of the DVD at just 2 hours 18 minutes, which is really short for ROH shows. Thankfully, there is more. Bryan Danielson defends the FIP title against Jay Lethal in a bonus match ripped from an FIP show in Crystal River, Florida in May 2006. The style is completely different, with an Orpington Halls-like building, a maybe 300-strong crowd with lots of kids and plenty of britwres-style heat. Highlights include Danielson stalling and getting called chicken while Dave Prazak manages him on the outside, and Milo Beasley, a homeless wheelchair bound bum suddenly springing to the apron to swanton (almost completely over the top of) Lethal on the floor before having to be helped back into his wheelchair by Danielson and DP. There's also a Four Way Fray (elimination match) for the Top of the Class trophy that would have looked way out of place on the main show, but isn't too offensive for those who watch.Overall, I'd recommend Domination as part of a Buy 3 Get 1 Free sale from ROH, but I'm not sure this would go on the top of my list of recommends for someone looking to just buy one show from somewhere, just due to the way they rippped out the best match for PPV, and left the DVD a little short of content. The two tag matches are the highlights, with nothing really offensive on the card. Good, not great.

Edited October 9, 2007 by gadgetboy

[The Cum Doctor]

ROH ROAD TO THE TITLE

*********************

 

Back in time we go again. Before I get onto the matches, why do Da Hit Squad always feature before anything gets going ?

 

American Dragon vs. Biohazard

 

Utterly useless squash match, and Biohazard's ring gear is shockingly bad.

 

Spanky vs. Paul London

 

This is more like it. Although there is a horribly blown spot in this one. Outside of that, this match goes along very well indeed, with both guys throwing everything into it.

 

Jay Briscoe vs. Doug Williams

 

This was basically Doug owning Jay for the most part, doing all sorts of weird things to him and generally making him look useless. However, it did showcase Doug very well, and with Jay being on a bad run at this point, it's understandable that Jay is the guy who's put out for the slaughter.

 

Jonny Storm vs. Jody Fleisch

 

Horrendous match from the same pair that brought a fantastic match out in CZW. This is far below that match. This match lacked the atmosphere and the crisp execution. Plus it was in half the time too. Not a match worth seeing.

 

Low Ki vs. Prince Nana

 

Prince Nana was pretty pointless at this point, so he was fodder for Low Ki's kicks. Not much happening here, but the ending is good.

 

The Amazing Red vs. Xavier

 

Anyone wanting to do a short spotfest should watch this one. Brilliant entertainment from bell to bell with both guys busting out big moves.

 

Christopher Daniels vs. Scoot Andrews

 

Wow. This was SHORT ! Especially considering it was Scoot Andrews, who was in the middle of a fued with the future ROH champ. Daniels basically squashes Andrews here.

 

Simply Luscious vs. Sumie Sukai

 

Wow. I assume this match had some sort of point to it.

 

AJ Styles vs. Jerry Lynn

 

Fun match like you usually get with these two guys. I actually like this match more than I like any TNA match involving the two men facing each other. That includes the Low Ki stuff as well.

 

Spanky vs. Jody Fleisch

 

A poor match which wasn't up to much. Fleisch just didn't bring anything to this tournament. I wonder if Jonny could have had a better shot at things, but that's neither here or there anymore. What happened was Jody went through a crap first match and had a boring second match.

 

Doug Williams vs. American Dragon

 

Very good match here from these two guys, as they rock the mat for the best part of 15 minutes. Williams was doing all sorts of cool stuff on this show, and it continues here. There's a brilliant spot with Leg Locks as well. All in all, this is a goodie.

 

Low Ki vs. The Amazing Red

 

The most well known match on the card, and for good reason. That reason being the opening sequence in the match where both guys block and trade kicks to a stalemate. Once that's over, Low Ki kills Red a lot, and Red, being an idiot, comes back with some BIG moves, but Low Ki always takes it a step further. This match did a good job of making Red look like a credible underdog.

 

Christopher Daniels vs. AJ Styles

 

Not one of their better matches, as it drags a bit, but this is a good way to close the show, and probably the best choice for the main event. The only problem here is that it takes FAR too long to get going. Once it DOES get going, it is really good to watch.

 

OVERALL

********

 

There's FAR too much on this show. Granted, most of it is good to watch, but it takes too long to watch. That's the problem with a one night tournament. That and the squash matches. Still, the good is VERY good.

[chunk3rvd]

Boring.

I'm expecting a good match, but when you've finally got Misawa over to the US why the hell would you put him in a match with somebody he could easily have a match with over in Japan?

What's the option?I mean, apart from the likes of McGuinness and Doug Williams, who are NOAH regulars anyway, who in ROH could have a good match with Misawa in ROH?

I'd expect Dragon to have a cracker with him.It doesn't need to be a 5 star classic, as long as somebody gets the rub from wrestling Misawa. KENTA doesn't need it, where as there are a few wrestlers on the roster that could benefit from it.

I've seen this deeply discussed over on the ROH forums. I'm not big on NOAH but apparently the thinking is that Dragon is just a Junior in NOAH. Mitsy wouldn't be willing to give him enough to create the kind of match you expect from Dragon in ROH. Apart from Nigel, nobody is and you can't have Nigel getting squashed 1 month into his reign. If the ROH fans want to see Misawa, performing as well as he can in this day and age, KENTA is probably the best option.