Official ROH Discussion Thread

[King of my World]

I think Delirious is a good worker who has fun matches, but I dont want to see him get a main event push, I could never take the guy seriously as a main eventer.I've watched a fair bit of RoH over the past few weeks, more specifically the 'Fight of the Century', 'Unified' and 'Anarchy in the UK' events. Really enjoyable shows with some great matches.Danielson vs Nigel at Unified is my favourite RoH title match this year simply for the emotion of the crowd and Nigel 'Hulking up' after having his head repeatedly hit into the steel ring post on the outside. The elbows from Dragon to finish the match look sick.Danielson vs Joe was another superb match. Joe bringing the physical style which frustrates Danielson in the early going as he cant gain an advantage in the match. Match picks up and there are some close near falls near the end of the match. The time limit finish is well done with Danielson locked in the choke and the time expiring, but I feel the impact of this match has been diluted somewhat with Danielson's time limit draws on future shows. Aries and Strong vs Briscoes from Unified is definitely their best match together, nice pace in this one and fancy double team moves. The tag match between the Briscoe's vs Davey Richards & Matt Sydal the next night at Anarchy has had alot of praise, but I didnt really think it was that great, they just seemed to go out there and wrestle a standard tag match until each man just decided to hit al their fancy moves (I suppose the same could be said for most RoH tag matches, but I felt it was more noticeable in this match)Other good matches on the shows are Kenta vs Davey Richards at FOTC, Danielson vs SUWA at Anarchy, and Danielson vs Strong also from Anarcy.

[WU LYF 4 LYF]

Finished watching Generation Now.

 

Dragon/McGuinness wasn't bad at all, though I'll be expecting a lot more from the Unified match. It was fairly standard, and managed to hold my inteest without being that riveting. Could do without Dragon using stuff like the super-plex every match, and the fact that there was about 3 lariats in two minutes, but overall there isn't a lot to criticise. But don't go into it expecting a great match, it's merely decent. **1/2

 

Overall the show exceeded my expectations a fair bit. The main event was a little disapointing, but the Briscoe/Cide match and the mad 8-Man were worth watching for.

 

Be watching Time To Man Up next.

[Philjax]

Finished watching Generation Now.Dragon/McGuinness wasn't bad at all, though I'll be expecting a lot more from the Unified match. It was fairly standard, and managed to hold my inteest without being that riveting. Could do without Dragon using stuff like the super-plex every match, and the fact that there was about 3 lariats in two minutes, but overall there isn't a lot to criticise. But don't go into it expecting a great match, it's merely decent. **1/2Overall the show exceeded my expectations a fair bit. The main event was a little disapointing, but the Briscoe/Cide match and the mad 8-Man were worth watching for.Be watching Time To Man Up next.

I'm pretty sure that's got to be the stupidest star rating ever. I haven't had the pleasure of seeing the match yet but it's physically impossible for those two to have anything less than at least a 3 star match together and i'm sure it's probably far better than that. You need to seriously re-evalute your star rating system.

[WU LYF 4 LYF]

And this is coming from a guy who hasn't actually seen the match

 

Just because it's Dragon and McGuinness doesn't mean it will be amazing. In fact, the match was unremarkable, and only the third best on the card.

 

The entire of Dragon's title reign has been totally overrated: just because he's in a match that goes more than 20 minutes doesn't mean it's the greatest thing ever. His title reign has been mostly fun, but hasn't been that good. His two best matches with the strap were back in 2005, and since then he's been consistently good, but rarely better, and sometimes worse. The Strong 50+ minute match was boring as hell.

[LaGoosh]

Danielson's match with McGuiness as Unified is fucking incredible. I got the DVD on Friday and while the rest of the card ranges from average to forgettable this is a excellent, intense and emotional match. I highly recommend it to everyone.

[Philjax]

And this is coming from a guy who hasn't actually seen the match Just because it's Dragon and McGuinness doesn't mean it will be amazing. In fact, the match was unremarkable, and only the third best on the card.The entire of Dragon's title reign has been totally overrated: just because he's in a match that goes more than 20 minutes doesn't mean it's the greatest thing ever. His title reign has been mostly fun, but hasn't been that good. His two best matches with the strap were back in 2005, and since then he's been consistently good, but rarely better, and sometimes worse. The Strong 50+ minute match was boring as hell.

If that's your honest opinion then you my friend, are watching the wrong style of wrestling. While I'd agree that the Strong match was a bit boring his defences against Rave, Shelley, McGuiness (count out) and Homicide pissed all over his defences last year.Oh and Danielson and McGuiness one on one means exactly that. Even on a bad day. There is simply no one better at mat wrestling and that is exactly what it's all about.I only mentioned i hadn't seen it just to be trueful. The fact of the matter is, is that having been with ROH since 2002 and seen every match they've promoted, I like a few others on here i'm sure, can tell exactly what star rating a match is likely to get before they've even stepped in the ring, such is the nature of the way ROH cards are designed and the consistency of the performers.

[gadge]

Philjax, I don't necessarily agree with being able to tell "exactly what star rating a match is likely to get before they've even stepped in the ring", and I've followed ROH since the beginning too. But, you're arguing with someone who has rated Dragon/McGuinness the same as Jimmy Jacobs vs Trik Davis. I know an opinion is an opinion, and the star rating system is stupid, but why bother arguing when things are as wonky as that. I wouldn't say the Generation Now match is worth *that* much more than **1/2 though - it's perhaps half as good as the Unified match

[edgecrusher]

I'll back Jax on saying you can usually tell what matches are going to be good and what ones aren't. Short of a Lennon style assassination, I really can't imagine Dragon and McGuinness having a match lower than ***. They're simply too good at what they do.

[alexander]

I just got done watching that match. It was good, but certainly below the standard they set with their first bout. The whole Gen Now card was pretty poor actually.

[WU LYF 4 LYF]

While I'd agree that the Strong match was a bit boring his defences against Rave, Shelley, McGuiness (count out) and Homicide pissed all over his defences last year.

I disagree. I loved his first match against Strong, as the heel stuff felt really fresh, and they just did everything really well. I loved the match against Romero, as it was totally different from any other defences, and everything fitted together really well.The Shelley match was excellent, and probably his best defence this year. The Rave match did little for me, don't know why. The Homicide match was good, but I prefer their Reborn: Stage 2 match by far. Haven't seen the WOC McGuinness match, as the shows looked really weak.Fact is, the GN match didn't do anything for me. It was technically fine, no doubt about it, but a lot of what they did felt a bit stale, and they didn't do a good job of creating excitement.

Oh and Danielson and McGuiness one on one means exactly that. Even on a bad day. There is simply no one better at mat wrestling and that is exactly what it's all about.

No, it doesn't. You can't judge a match based on whose in it.There are many people better at mat wrestling, and anyway, this match wasn't exactly full of mat wrestling. Yes, they jockeyed around on the mat for a while, but it was hardly state of the art, and it wasn't exactly hold-for-hold traditional mat wrestling. They mixed it up with different stuff.Oh, and mat wrestling isn't what it's all about at all. I'm sure Cage Of Death is one of your favourite matches of the year, and there's no mat westling at all. Austin/Rock is generally considered one of the best matches ever, and it features no mat wrestling. The mat wrestling in the great AJ matches is simple and minimal.When done well, mat wrestling is good, but it certainly isn't 'what it's all about'.

can tell exactly what star rating a match is likely to get before they've even stepped in the ring,

Typical ROH fan, to be honest. Judging a match on the wrestlers in it.Do you realise how ridiculous your statement looks? How on earth can you judge a match before seeing it? There have beens loads of matches in the past that have been a lot better than they looked on paper, and similarly, many matches that have been worse than they looked on paper.

you're arguing with someone who has rated Dragon/McGuinness the same as Jimmy Jacobs vs Trik Davis.

Yes, because they were both as entertaining as the other. Just because one contains Trik davis and one contains Danielson doesn't mean one's better. Dragon/McGuinness went out, had a decent match, but did exactly what I expected them to do. Jacobs/Davis was a really good competetive squash, it was unique, and was really entertaining.

I really can't imagine Dragon and McGuinness having a match lower than ***. They're simply too good at what they do.

Both have had awful matches in the past. They aren't perect westlers. What did they do in this match that made it so great?

The whole Gen Now card was pretty poor actually.

I enjoyed it actually. Thought it was certainly better than some of the more reccomended cards from earlier in the year.

[King of my World]

I didnt enjoy the Danielson vs Nigel match from Gen Now, thought it was a bit tedious, but I loved their match at Unified.

[Philjax]

How on earth do you have a competitive squash?Although i can often predict what star rating a certain match between two opponents are LIKELY to have i reserve my judgement until i see it. I didn't say that AmDrag and Nigel separately don't have less than 3 star matches, i said together. Both have had some horendous bouts on the lower card this year but have been thrilling in any match they've had against eachother.I haven't seen Cage Of Death yet but i highly doubt it will be my favourite match of the year because i generally detest brawls unless they are done spectacularly. A lot of people were creaming themselves over the Homicide/Necro match when it first happened and i was left thoroughly underwhelmed by the 8 minutes mainly involving fans throwing chairs in the ring, which had been done already in one of the poor Cabana/Homicide bouts earlier on in the year. Far from the five star "better than Ki-Necro" praise i'd heard.I'm far from a typical ROH fan because rarely is their more than two or three matches out of the 8 or 9 on each DVD that i even consider giving more than 3 and a half stars. The rest is usually filler. For example i have found most of GenNext's title defences this year tedious and repetitive as hell whereas a typical ROHmark would cream themselves stupid. Only their bouts with the Dragongate guys have been anything to shout about.

[LaGoosh]

Oi Lantern, how dare you watch ROH DVDs and not do a detailed review of them!

[WU LYF 4 LYF]

Lets clear one thing up with my star ratings. Just because a match doesn't get *** or more doesn't mean I have't enjoyed it. A match around **1/2 I feel is a pretty good one, but just not one I enjoyed a lot, or one I'm likely to go back and watch. I though Dragon/Nigel was good, but it didn't blow me away or excite me.King Of my World didn't enjoy the match either, it's all subjective in the end.

How on earth do you have a competitive squash?

It's a squash where it's obvious one guy is going to win, but thwe other guy gets some offence in and maybe has a couple of openings where they get into a pinning position.So it's a squash where the guy getting squashed gets some offence in, rather than being totally rolled over.

i said together. Both have had some horendous bouts on the lower card this year but have been thrilling in any match they've had against eachother.

It still doesn't mean they can't have an average match together. The Rock and Steve Austin had some great matches together, but I've seen some of their matches that have been mediocre.

I haven't seen Cage Of Death yet but i highly doubt it will be my favourite match of the year because i generally detest brawls unless they are done spectacularly.

Well most people would totally disagree with that. Like I said, it's all subjective. You look for mat wrestling and technical wrestling in a match, but other people would rather see an intense, believable brawl.

A lot of people were creaming themselves over the Homicide/Necro match when it first happened and i was left thoroughly underwhelmed by the 8 minutes mainly involving fans throwing chairs in the ring,

I'm sure a lot of people would have something to say about that. I personally liked it a lot.You see, I like a lot of types of wrestling, and look for the good stuff in all of it.Your view seems to be that if it's one style of wrestling, by certain wrestlers, it must be great, but if it's another style, it probably isn't that good.And yes, the Cabana/Homicide matches were usually not all that great, mostly because Cabana is awful at playing a serious character.

I'm far from a typical ROH fan because rarely is their more than two or three matches out of the 8 or 9 on each DVD that i even consider giving more than 3 and a half stars.

There must be very few people out there who hand out ***1/2 to over 3 matches on most ROH shows.But you seem to be the sort of guy who rated a match on who is in it, and its length, rather than what they actually do and how entertaining it is. Even if you really enjoyed a Hagadorn/Jacobs match, and was bored by a Dragon/Aries match, I'm sure you'd rate the Dragon match higher.

For example i have found most of GenNext's title defences this year tedious and repetitive as hell whereas a typical ROHmark would cream themselves stupid.

Personally I haven't minded the title reign, but it really hasn't been amazing. I can see where you're coming from there. I reckon that most of the matches are too long, when a simple, compact tag match may have been better.

[WU LYF 4 LYF]

Just watched ROH Time To Man Up.

 

Jack Evans v Bryan Danielson was a fun opener. My expectations coming in were actually pretty high, as I love watching Evans and he usually works well with guys like Danielson. The first few minutes were really entertaining, and while it kind of dropped off a little after that, it was mostly good stuff, give or take a couple of awkward exchanges. Enjoyable. **