Official ROH Discussion Thread

[WU LYF 4 LYF]

Is that really your opinion?

Yeah.I'm not one of those reviewers that see a match with Austin Aries and Bryan Danielson involved, and automatically give it a high rating.Honestly, if you want that, go read 411Mania masturbate over another Danielson 50 minute classic, and hand out ****1/2 show to every big ROH match.In terms of the 4-Corner Survival, it was predictable action with little of note happening. Jacobs/Davis was something a little different, and was far more entertaining than the pointless and indeed pretty boring 4-Way.

[Philjax]

I gave up trying to come to conclusions on his star ratings a long time ago. Anyone who uses less than a star to rate a match when * sufficiently describes a "dud" is of no use to me.

[WU LYF 4 LYF]

Well, there's an actively bad match, then you get something like Curry Man/Lethal which is actually painful and embarassing to watch.

[Jun Kasai]

October 26th: Dragon Gate will be sending one of its top stars to 12/22 in East Windsor, CT and 12/23 in Manhattan, NY in addition to the already booked Shingo. This will be one of Dragon Gate's top main eventers. There is going to be a tournament in Dragon Gate in early December and we will not know who is available until the tournament is over. This individual will be in main event quality matches on both nights. Tickets are now on sale for both shows at ROHwrestling.com or by calling 215-781-2500.

Oh yes, this is great news hopefully It will be Susumu Yokosuka but I got a feeling he might be still be in the King of Gate, Genki would do just fine though

[RCD]

I wouldn't mind seeing Yoss back.i loved his stuff in the milestone series.

[dopper]

The discus clothesline AJ Styles gave Paul London at Night of The Grudges in June 2003 is the greatest clothesline I have ever seen.I know it's almost 3 and a half years ago but as I watched the match again today and this is, after all, a ROH Discussion topic - I think it's a point worth making.

[Oliver]

Yeah, my MOTY list will likely be ROH heavy as well, but I haven't seen hardly any Puro at all this year, no TNA, and only some WWE, while catching nearly every ROH event.I find it funny that on the website they're promoting Matt Sydal v Delirious as the 'next huge ROH feud'.Anyway, watched ROH War Of The Wire II.Jimmy Jacobs v Trik Davis was a really fun opener, as is anything with Jacoba in these days. I'd don't think I've ever seen Davis before, but he was serviceable at least, and Jacobs put in another great performance. Good match with some neat touches. **1/2Davey Richards/Jerrelle Clark v The Embassy was decent enough. Just standad tag action really, but the Embassy are good at putting together this sort of thing, and Richards is usually pretty impressive. Clark was kind of just there. **1/4McGuinness/Cabana was good while it lasted, and I'm glad they went with the finish they did. I was fearing a long, boring encounter from them, and was pleasently suprised by the finish, and found the reaction of the ROH fans once again hilarious. **1/2Daniels/Sydal was actually enjoyable. I think Sydal is great, and he put in another god erfrmance, mixing his athletic stuff with great selling and timing. Daniels on the other hand, just gave in his standard displa-he didn't add anything different, maybe show disrespect or anything like that, he just did the same old ballet rubbish. But still, I liked this. For the sake of your sanity, skip the 5 minutes after match stuff. **Danielson/Homicide/Aries/Delirious was once again solid. The fact that Delirious was in it was enough to make me hate it actually. The guy has become awful- I don't buy him one bit going against ROH's top talent, his gimmick is funny for a while in the undercard, but is exposed as repetetive and stupid when he moved to the main event. Seriously, this guy should be wrestling Ebessan in comedy matches. The action was nothing to write home about, but they didn't do much wrong either. **Briscoes Strong/Evans was once again fairly good. I dig some things about the Briscoes right now; their good FIP sections, their gimmick, their double shoulder block. But they still suffer from the old problems, and even probably the best team in ROH history in Evans + Strong couldn't get them away from that. As with a lot of ROH stuff, it's really too long, but I've seen a lot worse, and, what's more, there were actually moments where the match seemed really good. Just not enough of them. **1/4Whitmer/Necro was really good, in a brutal kind of way. They came up with some innovative spots involving the wire, there was some great bumping and it gave a sense of finality to the ROH/CZW feud. On the other hand, it could have been a lot better. the wrong man went over- Whitmer has improved slightly, but the last thing I want to see is him beating the awesome Necro in his own match. Plus, Whitmer's performance is nowhere near as god as Necro's- he's hitting forearms instead of punched, blatantly if understandably blocking weapon shots, and is completely outshined by Butcher the entire way through. With someone better than Whitmer, this could have been excellent- as it was, it was merely good. ***Strange, strange ROH show. One of the best all rounded shows the've had all year. There was nothing on the card that was actively bad, and in fact most of it was pretty good. At the same time. there was nothing really that good, and I doubt I'll be revisiting any of the matches anytime soon, as they weren't really memorable. Still, I reccomend the show.

I saw the show myself last night. Matt Sydal finally defeating Daniels was a tremendous moment and contained some very exciting near finishes towards the end. I also agree with what you said about Delirious, I absolutely despise this man and often feel I'm the only one. The part in the 4 way where Austin Aries took the Shadows over Hell backsplash was awful.

[edgecrusher]

Delirius is one of the best things in ROH. That's why you feel like you're the only one at times. It's the result of A: Having a character B: Playing it very well and C: Playing the underdog role better than anyone else in the company.When you have an entire promotion of Japan-esque 'hard guys' with debatable charisma, the guy dressed in green who runs around in circles spouting gibberish but can still wrestle better than half of them suddenly gains even more appeal.

[spurs 4 life]

Delirious is totally awesome , i love ROH and he is a major factor in that. Awesome promo's , great comedy and he can cut it in the ring when needed. The guy is awesome.

[WU LYF 4 LYF]

Have watched nearly all of ROH Generation Now over the last week.Delirious/Claudio was the opener, and it could have been worse. Really simple match, which worked in its favour, Claudio is excellent in the heel role, and Delirious was passable here. **Embassy v Steele/Cabana was decent. Steel is awful, and the match seemed to drag and go down about 5 notches when he was in the ring, but everything with Cabana and the Embassy was gold, and they built to a hot finish. Nice midcard stuff, just get rid of Steel. **Jay Briscoe v Jimmy Jacobs was good. Jacobs was fun as usual, and him and Jay have a nice bit of chemistry. Lacey added to the match, as she usually does from the outside, and Jimmy gets murdered for the finish. Plus, we get treated to a live rendition of the Ballad Of Lacey. **1/4Homicide v Mark Briscoe was pretty class. I'm liking the Briscoes more and more with every show, and this was just a really tight brawl, with great intensity and some well placed spots. Cide is at his best in matches like this, though I wish he's stop winning with the Lariat, the move that seemingly everyone on the roster uses. Good stuff though. ***Generation Next v Richards/Irish Airborne/Clark was just crazy. Yes, it was complete spot-fu, but it was fun as anything. Much better than the similar Dragon gate match, because I actually cared about most of the characters, and felt there was a reason for the match. Most of these guys are suited to tag action here, and this was the most enjoyable match on the show by a long way. ***1/4Daniels v Cage was destined to be a nightmare from the beginning. You have Cage, a good interview but a mediocre worker, facing Daniels, who's terrible at anything. They talk for 10 minutes before the match (Thank God For Fast-Forward). The retarded crowd do a duelling chant every two minutes. Before we even get to the match, this sucks. As it happens, the match itself was crap as well. They exchange weak strikes along with some half-hearted bodypart psychology that doesn't go anywhere. This lasts for about 10 minutes, until they go into the 'my move-your move' stuff, and get to the finish. No reason, no passion, no intensity. It could have been worse- Daniels could have stayed on offence for longer, and Christian actually stood out as someone who could conect with the crowd. But make no mistake, this is bad. *1/4Just got the main event to watch, and it hasn't been a bad show at all.

It's the result of A: Having a character B: Playing it very well and C: Playing the underdog role better than anyone else in the company.

Character? A retard could play the role of Delirious. It hardly compares to the character work of some of the top wrestlers. He runs around the ring and talks rubbish. Great. What else does he do?Playing his role well? I'll grant you, he isn't bad at the whole underdog babyface thing. But I could say that about tons of people. Yes, he's over, but then again, so's Daniels, and pretty much anyone Gabe decides to push.The guy isn't compelling in the least. He's average as a wrestler, has a poor moveset, the only role he can play is underdog babyface, and he bores me playing that.I used to find him fun on the undercard, but in the main event he sucks.

[edgecrusher]

Character? A retard could play the role of Delirious. It hardly compares to the character work of some of the top wrestlers. He runs around the ring and talks rubbish. Great. What else does he do?

Then why do most similar characters suck? It takes skill to play a character like that well, and Delirious has a great deal of skill. For fuck's sake, he gets people cheering for promos they don't understand a word of, because when he actually tries to, he delivers them with superb intensity (see the promo pre-Danielson). People can feel that he's intense, and feel that he wants it, and people can relate to that, even though they don't have a clue what he's saying. His opening bell run is a spot. What did Austin ever do except Thesz Press and Stunner? Everything else between the opening bell and the closing one.

Playing his role well? I'll grant you, he isn't bad at the whole underdog babyface thing. But I could say that about tons of people. Yes, he's over, but then again, so's Daniels, and pretty much anyone Gabe decides to push.

Daniels is ridiculously over-hated on these boards. Ridiculously.Not many people I've seen do it as well as Delirious. Other people do the underdog thing well, but he does it very well.

The guy isn't compelling in the least. He's average as a wrestler, has a poor moveset, the only role he can play is underdog babyface, and he bores me playing that.I used to find him fun on the undercard, but in the main event he sucks.

That's your opinion. I bought the last few minutes of his title match with Danielson far more than I bought anything I saw him doing with Colt Cabana. What's wrong with his moveset? He has a few signature moves that he uses well, and otherwise wrestles good to excellent matches. It wouldn't make sense for him to be 'too' flashy, because it wouldn't fit the character. He looks, acts, and plays the role of a slightly mad wildman who desperately wants to be successful. He plays the role perfectly, IMO.

[spurs 4 life]

I think Delirious would be perfect for a run on Smackdown. He isnt overly stiff and he doesnt do too many flops so the wrestling shouldnt be an issue. His gimmick would be a hoot in the cruiserwieght division. Imagine him facing the bully Greg Helms and desperatly trying to win the belt but just failing everytime! Yeah its similar to his ROH stuff , but it works. Also WWE could let him use the Ultimate Warriors music , which would be perfect IMO.I can see why people get bored of the gimmick but i would hope EVERYONE can see just how damn talented the man playing it is.

[edgecrusher]

I'm stunned they've never looked at Delirious. He's the perfect character for WWE.

[WU LYF 4 LYF]

Then why do most similar characters suck?

I haven't seen any characters similar to Delirious, and if I did, they'd likely be just as bad as he is.

What did Austin ever do except Thesz Press and Stunner?

Don'e embarass yourself. Austin is probably the best talker in the history of the business, an awesome storyteller, his facials are some of the best of all time, his character was superb. And even in terms of his moveset, Austin did a lot more than what you said. Not only that, he made every move count. A right hand by Austin has ten times the effect of an Irish Airborne Death-Valley-Driver.

His opening bell run is a spot.

But it's a terrible, stale spot. Eugene's spots were good for a while, but soon people began to tire and realise that actually he sucked.

Not many people I've seen do it as well as Delirious. Other people do the underdog thing well, but he does it very well.

The only time I've seen him do it really well is when he's been wrestling American Dragon, one of the top wrestlers in the world right now. Rey Mysterio is far, far better at it then Delirious, who at the end of the day, will be gone and forgotten in 3 years time. Kanemoto is a great underdog sympathy seller, Delirious had two decent performances in the role.

Daniels is ridiculously over-hated on these boards. Ridiculously.

So what do you like about him?

I bought the last few minutes of his title match with Danielson far more than I bought anything I saw him doing with Colt Cabana.

But Cabana is an average worker as well, just he is a great talker and has a much better character.Plus, Delirious/Dragon II went on far too long. How is it a guy who has won a total of about 2 matches can last nearly 30 minutes with your champion?

What's wrong with his moveset?

There's nothing different about his signature moves. Movesets are often a general problem in ROH, mainly because most of the roster uses the same moves. If someone does a flip off a Lariat in the main event, it should be a massive thing, but it isn't really, as we've likely seen about 5 of them already on the card. Delirious'offence is OK, but some of it looks really contrived, and none of it grabs my attention.

I'm stunned they've never looked at Delirious. He's the perfect character for WWE.

The gutys at least 30LB's short of being a guy WWE would look at, and I can't see why his gimmick would capture their attention that much.

[spurs 4 life]

Then why do most similar characters suck?

I haven't seen any characters similar to Delirious, and if I did, they'd likely be just as bad as he is.

What did Austin ever do except Thesz Press and Stunner?

Don'e embarass yourself. Austin is probably the best talker in the history of the business, an awesome storyteller, his facials are some of the best of all time, his character was superb. And even in terms of his moveset, Austin did a lot more than what you said. Not only that, he made every move count. A right hand by Austin has ten times the effect of an Irish Airborne Death-Valley-Driver.

His opening bell run is a spot.

But it's a terrible, stale spot. Eugene's spots were good for a while, but soon people began to tire and realise that actually he sucked.

Not many people I've seen do it as well as Delirious. Other people do the underdog thing well, but he does it very well.

The only time I've seen him do it really well is when he's been wrestling American Dragon, one of the top wrestlers in the world right now. Rey Mysterio is far, far better at it then Delirious, who at the end of the day, will be gone and forgotten in 3 years time. Kanemoto is a great underdog sympathy seller, Delirious had two decent performances in the role.

Daniels is ridiculously over-hated on these boards. Ridiculously.

So what do you like about him?

I bought the last few minutes of his title match with Danielson far more than I bought anything I saw him doing with Colt Cabana.

But Cabana is an average worker as well, just he is a great talker and has a much better character.Plus, Delirious/Dragon II went on far too long. How is it a guy who has won a total of about 2 matches can last nearly 30 minutes with your champion?

What's wrong with his moveset?

There's nothing different about his signature moves. Movesets are often a general problem in ROH, mainly because most of the roster uses the same moves. If someone does a flip off a Lariat in the main event, it should be a massive thing, but it isn't really, as we've likely seen about 5 of them already on the card. Delirious'offence is OK, but some of it looks really contrived, and none of it grabs my attention.

I'm stunned they've never looked at Delirious. He's the perfect character for WWE.

The gutys at least 30LB's short of being a guy WWE would look at, and I can't see why his gimmick would capture their attention that much.

Wow just wow. I understand you dont dig the character but your being way , way to harsh on Delirious here. I tell you his promos connect with me more than anyone else on the ROH roster (with the exception of Jim Cornette). Sure he isnt making sense but its all about the intensity and feeling he puts into them. The man knows his charachter down to a tee , he performs a promo like its the way he really talks. And wether he is trying to be funny , sad or angry he gets the feeling he needs across perfectly in the promo. His wrestling is fine. I've just watched a match between him and Matt Sydal and its a perfectly acceptable ROH upper midcard match. I also noticed by the way how the crowd popped when he went mad at the bell -stale my arse..its a fun spot that makes him stand out in a promotion filled with super serious wrestlers. Sure he is no Samoa Joe but he doesnt need to be , the guy is over by having a character people can get behind.In fact if the WWE dont want him (his just as big as Kendrick , London or Noble so your size issue is incorrect) then i hope Brian Dixon brings him over. The kids at the holiday camps would love himand he could make himself a small fortune selling replica masks.One last thing . Colt Cabana is in my opinion an AVERAGE talker who is over by incorparating a British style into the modern style. He is far from an average worker however. In fact i think all the young Brit wrestlers should look towards him as an example of how to get a WOS style into your moveset. The guy is better at doing British than most of Britain.