UK wrestling in 1993

[Dean Ayass]

I would have gone with the All Star assumption for the big crowd, as they often drew four figure crowds at points, though that would more likely be in the late 90s as attendances were way down by 1993. Tony Earnshaw would probably know more though.

Andre Baker could hold his own with anyone in the ring. When I was working closely with him, he recognised that there were two new styles of wrestling that were becoming popular, namely hardcore and shoot-style, and he brought both of these styles into his work. In places like Maidstone and Ashford, where Danny Lynch had been king of the previous generation, it wasn't much of a transition from the wild, bloody brawls that Lynch would have. When he flew to New Jersey to challenge Dan Severn for the NWA World title, Severn allowed Andre to last longer than any of his previous challengers due to his respect for Andre's own legit background and ability. But most of all, Andre was a masterful heel, who knew how to wind up a crowd, how to banter with and insult ringsiders much like the Pallos (who he was very close to) did. We had at least one riot and several crowds right on the cusp of rioting with Andre! Andre was also very smart - he recognised that Doug Williams was his best student by a mile and so booked himself in a feud with him so that he had the best matches of the night! But this also helped Doug greatly, as he would work with an experienced pro rather than fellow rookies. And then when Doug left Hammerlock, Andre repeated the process with Johnny Moss, who has gone on to be one of the world's leading trainers now with the WWE Performance Centre.

As far as people who could've gone further, I do think that Jody Fleisch came around about 15 years too early. He is without a doubt the greatest aerial wrestler I have ever seen in my life, ahead of the likes of Pac and Will Ospreay. If Jody was in his prime now, I can see him being a sensation in somewhere like AEW and/or New Japan. And out of everyone who came out of that school, I think Andre would have loved what Zack Sabre Jr has become now - a British style technician without comparison, combined with a cocky gobshite attitude that has huge elements of Andre's character work in it. 

[Snitsky's back acne]

Did the live TV shows at Crystal Palace draw well?  

[The Dart]

The first one got about 1,000 I think, but IF I remember correctly the 2nd one got canceled due to poor ticket sales.  Or it might have been a second Blackpool one that got canceled due to poor ticket sales even after the first Blackpool one did poorly.

Edited September 8, 2023 by The Dart

[Browser Brady]

6 hours ago, Dean Ayass said:

I would have gone with the All Star assumption for the big crowd, as they often drew four figure crowds at points, though that would more likely be in the late 90s as attendances were way down by 1993. Tony Earnshaw would probably know more though.

Andre Baker could hold his own with anyone in the ring. When I was working closely with him, he recognised that there were two new styles of wrestling that were becoming popular, namely hardcore and shoot-style, and he brought both of these styles into his work. In places like Maidstone and Ashford, where Danny Lynch had been king of the previous generation, it wasn't much of a transition from the wild, bloody brawls that Lynch would have. When he flew to New Jersey to challenge Dan Severn for the NWA World title, Severn allowed Andre to last longer than any of his previous challengers due to his respect for Andre's own legit background and ability. But most of all, Andre was a masterful heel, who knew how to wind up a crowd, how to banter with and insult ringsiders much like the Pallos (who he was very close to) did. We had at least one riot and several crowds right on the cusp of rioting with Andre! Andre was also very smart - he recognised that Doug Williams was his best student by a mile and so booked himself in a feud with him so that he had the best matches of the night! But this also helped Doug greatly, as he would work with an experienced pro rather than fellow rookies. And then when Doug left Hammerlock, Andre repeated the process with Johnny Moss, who has gone on to be one of the world's leading trainers now with the WWE Performance Centre.

As far as people who could've gone further, I do think that Jody Fleisch came around about 15 years too early. He is without a doubt the greatest aerial wrestler I have ever seen in my life, ahead of the likes of Pac and Will Ospreay. If Jody was in his prime now, I can see him being a sensation in somewhere like AEW and/or New Japan. And out of everyone who came out of that school, I think Andre would have loved what Zack Sabre Jr has become now - a British style technician without comparison, combined with a cocky gobshite attitude that has huge elements of Andre's character work in it. 

Thanks for taking the time for such a detailed response.

[David Mantell]

13 hours ago, Browser Brady said:

What was the biggest non WWF or WCW crowd drawn in UK wrestling in the 90’s ?

In the early part of the decade the biggest draw was Kendo Nagasaki as lead heel of All Star, following on from the end of the 80s.  Big Daddy was still top draw of Joint (or Ring Wrestling Stars as Max C rebranded it in 1991) but they had well and truly slunk to second behind All Star after TV ended.  Stax could still draw a crowd for either promoter or Orig.

If you don't count Davey Boy as WWF as of early 94 then he probably had the edge at that point as Daddy's replacement at RWS, while Kendo had retired.  Like Daddy, he was loaned out to other promoters like Premier, Scott Conway's Southeastern Wrestling Alliance (the future TWA) and possibly Orig although he wasn't on Reslo ever AFAIK.  

By the late 90s it was all over the place, tribute shows, ageing actual ex WWFers, you name it.  Robbie Brookside was back in Britain and mostly back as a blue-eye over here and was usually a decent draw for All Star or TWA.   Johnny South's "Legend of Doom" act was a draw even away from the tribute shows,, he ended Marty Jones's final World Mid Heavyweight title run in Bristol, April '99.  By about 2002 All Star had gone over to just advertising a show rather than the bill except for a few mega title matches like when Brookside won the All Star British Heavyweight title from Doug Williams in Liverpool Sept 2002 or the big World Heavy Middleweight title tournament in 2003.

[David Mantell]

11 hours ago, CavemanLynn said:

I was always under the impression it wasn't so much "one big crowd" when it came to British wrestling, so much as it was about dozens of shows multiple times a week individually drawing hundreds all over the UK a night. So although an individual gate wasn't spectacular, it meant that on any given night, thousands of punters were at shows, with dozens of workers getting a wage.

Yes, and historically that was the business model in the UK apart from the Royal Albert Hall and the three big Wembley Arena shows 79-81.

[David Mantell]

Talking of Brookside, I think any list of big draws in early 90s UK should include his "Liverpool Lads" tag team with the late Ian "Doc" Dean, they had a big female fan following similar to the Rock N Roll Express (Morton & Gibson, not Blondie Barrett) or the Fantastics in the US in the mid/late 80s.

[David Mantell]

On 9/6/2023 at 2:09 PM, David Mantell said:

Robbie Brookside's Video Diary was filmed.  The Liverpool Lads lost the British Tag Team title to Vic Powers and Steve Prince after Doc Dean and Robbie Brookside banged heads in the ring and knocked each other silly (I believe this was a shoot accident, hence them being urinated off about it at the start of the video diary.) Prince and Powers lost it to the Superflies a few months later.

 

Rewatched the video diary over breakfast this morning.  Thought it would be a splendid thing to post on here as it pretty much sums up the UK Old School scene in 1993 (with bits of Germany and WCW at the time thown in for good measure.) Checked to see if anyone else had posted it already, just in case - then found that I myself had posted it only four days ago!  Clearly I'm going senile.

[Sminion]

On 2/13/2021 at 7:37 PM, JNLister said:

18/6/93 – RUSHDEN with Tony Stewart v The Undertakers W

Hello, does anybody have more details about this show at all please?

 

 

[Arthur B. Funky]

No-one remembers the WOW promotion, that was run out of Peacock's Gym in Beak Street, London then?  They ran the Winter Gardens in Blackpool a few times a year from 1993 - 1995.  The Duke Brothers, I believe, were the promoters, & they had the likes of Karl Kramer, Ivan the Terrible, Union Jack (British Bulldog clone), Flash (UK version of 90's Sting), Phil Powers & a few others I forget ...

Anyone?

[Just Some Guy]

I live in Blackpool and remember those shows being on. Didn't go as I would have been Billy-No-Mates!

I recall seeing the wrestlers on the prom drumming up some interest and in addition to those you mentioned, they had a heel construction worked called Demolition. Was that Karl Kramer?

Flash was Phil "Flash" Barker?

[David Mantell]

On 9/18/2023 at 12:06 PM, Sminion said:

Hello, does anybody have more details about this show at all please?

By the sounds of it, just a standard Max Crabtree "Ring Wrestling Stars" (ex Joint Promotions)  house show with a Big Daddy tag headlining.
Can't find you the undercard but some shows from around the same time with the exact same main event included Swanley 1st May (undercard Ian McGregor v Steve Johnson, John Prater v Ring Warrior) and the Aberdeen Grampian TV taping on 11th October (undercard: Ian McGregor beat Rex Lane, Andy Strong drew with Dale Preston, Chic Cullen beat Mike Roberts, Pat Roach beat Bearcat Brody, Giant Haystacks beat John Prater)

Undertakers Doom and Gloom were Big Daddy's main opponents in that final year.  Tony Stewart (Euro Lightweight champion, sometime challenger to World champion Johnny Saint) was about the most credible wrestler to get the blue-eye in peril tag partner slot - other times it went to Daddy's nephew Spencer "Scott Valentine" Crabtree or to "The Karate Kid" (Angus Lancaster).  Stewart would be the tag partner in Daddy's retirement match in Margate 29th Dec that year.

[David Mantell]

On 9/22/2023 at 7:21 PM, Just Some Guy said:

I live in Blackpool and remember those shows being on. Didn't go as I would have been Billy-No-Mates!

I recall seeing the wrestlers on the prom drumming up some interest and in addition to those you mentioned, they had a heel construction worked called Demolition. Was that Karl Kramer?

Flash was Phil "Flash" Barker?

Phil Barker had the blond Fido Dido haircut like Steve Borden did and of course "Flash" was Borden's early ring name in Memphis when he and Hellwig were the Freedom Fighters.  It sounds a distinctly Americanised/New School promotion, similar to the American Wrestling Academy discussed above.

Edited September 25, 2023 by David Mantell

[Snitsky's back acne]

8 hours ago, David Mantell said:

Stewart would be the tag partner in Daddy's retirement match in Margate 29th Dec that year.

I grew up in Margate and the Winter Gardens was my local venue.
I would have been 12 when this happened but have no idea why I didn't go as I attended almost every month in later years.
Missed a bit of history there.  

[Arthur B. Funky]

On 9/22/2023 at 7:21 PM, Just Some Guy said:

I live in Blackpool and remember those shows being on. Didn't go as I would have been Billy-No-Mates!

I recall seeing the wrestlers on the prom drumming up some interest and in addition to those you mentioned, they had a heel construction worked called Demolition. Was that Karl Kramer?

Flash was Phil "Flash" Barker?

Kramer wasn't Demolition; he went out as The Viking for WoW ... Demolition was Iron Duke Lynch IIRC.

Flash was indeed Phil Barker.  There was also Kerry the Surfboy, who wrestled in a wetsuit & carried a surf-board to the ring.