UFC 196: McGregor vs Diaz

[lambyUK]

Don't think they'd do Holm vs Rousey as a decider? Surely money wise that'd be smarter for the UFC as either way your left with a big money Women's title fight.

 

Maybe, but if Holm gets beat by Tate, it will take away the shine of beating Rousey the first time. If she can't beat someone who Rousey manhandled twice, then the rematch won't be anywhere near what it could have been.

 

However, if they did decide to go that way, I'd give Tate Amanda Nunes, providing she wins her upcoming fight.

 

Rousey may even demand the holm rematch considering just how much she was affected by the first fight. 

[theringmaster]

Don't think they'd do Holm vs Rousey as a decider? Surely money wise that'd be smarter for the UFC as either way your left with a big money Women's title fight.

I touched upon this much earlier in the thread. I can see a strange scenario where Tate beats Holm, Ronda beats Tate and then it's Ronda defending against Holm in their big rematch. These three could end up in a strange triangle where there is no definitive better fighter.

 

Holm is a phenomenal fighter, achieving World Titles across different disciplines but people are only looking at her last fight, her first 2 UFC outings hardly set the world on fire.

 

It's funny how people judge both Rousey & Holm on their last fights and disregard their previous fights, the old saying is true, Only as good as your last fight.

 

But yeah I have always fancied Tate to beat Holm, I said that before the Ronda fight and I still say it. Tate is an elite fighter, former Strikeforce Champion and her only defeats in the UFC have come to Ronda and Zandango (which was in controversial manner). She doesn't get enough credit.

[David]

I read somewhere that yesterday McGregor was walking around at 177lbs, so a tiny cut for him (although he'll probably sweat it out in training naturally this next week).

 

177lbs? Fucking hell. It makes you wonder if he'll ever want to make that cut back to 145lbs again.

[Chunk]

 

I read somewhere that yesterday McGregor was walking around at 177lbs, so a tiny cut for him (although he'll probably sweat it out in training naturally this next week).

 

177lbs? Fucking hell. It makes you wonder if he'll ever want to make that cut back to 145lbs again.

 

 

That was my thought a few pages back. Surely if he beats Diaz, he'll drop down to LW to face RDA and then move back up to WW for a shot at holding three belts.

[METAL ON METAL]

I can't see him ever going back to FW, there's not really anything left to gain for him to do so. There's only Edgar there for him at FW, a fight which will not change his legacy one bit really if he won.

 

Out of all the other fights on the table at LW and even WW, a fight with Edgar would likely do the worst business of the lot because (while he has fans and is a former champion) the larger majority of fans don't really give a shit about him. It reflected that way when he was champion and it still reflects that way after being beaten by the guy McGregor KO'ed in 13 seconds. That's the harsh reality of it all for Edgar.

[theringmaster]

 

 

I read somewhere that yesterday McGregor was walking around at 177lbs, so a tiny cut for him (although he'll probably sweat it out in training naturally this next week).

 

177lbs? Fucking hell. It makes you wonder if he'll ever want to make that cut back to 145lbs again.

 

 

That was my thought a few pages back. Surely if he beats Diaz, he'll drop down to LW to face RDA and then move back up to WW for a shot at holding three belts.

 

How long will they allow him to keep the FW title without defending? A division without a active Champion kind of kills it. Surely there has to come a point where UFC say "Look, defend the belt or give it up"

[Chunk]

 

 

 

I read somewhere that yesterday McGregor was walking around at 177lbs, so a tiny cut for him (although he'll probably sweat it out in training naturally this next week).

 

177lbs? Fucking hell. It makes you wonder if he'll ever want to make that cut back to 145lbs again.

 

 

That was my thought a few pages back. Surely if he beats Diaz, he'll drop down to LW to face RDA and then move back up to WW for a shot at holding three belts.

 

How long will they allow him to keep the FW title without defending? A division without a active Champion kind of kills it. Surely there has to come a point where UFC say "Look, defend the belt or give it up"

 

 

True.

 

Making some big assumptions ... If I was booking it (and he beats Diaz), I'd booked the RDA fight for 200. Then, if he beats RDA, I'd announce Connor vs Lawler for the WW title at the same time I announced he's dropping the FW belt. I'd also make sure I booked the fight to crown the new FW champ at least 1 day after Connor / Lawler ... which gives you the chance to use the 3 weight title holder angle.

[herbie747]

Great short movie about McGregor & his rise - by Sports Illustrated:

http://www.the42.ie/sports-illustrated-short-film-conor-mcgregor-2623647-Feb2016/?utm_source=twitter_self

 

The guy is such a class act - 1 of a kind.

[wandshogun09]

It's funny how people judge both Rousey & Holm on their last fights and disregard their previous fights, the old saying is true, Only as good as your last fight.

I can't speak for anyone else but I'm not going solely on their last fights. Although I was definitely massively underwhelmed by her first two UFC fights, my doubts on Holm were always down to not seeing her up against a really strong grappler. That's why I think people are putting a lot of weight on the Rousey win. Holm answered a lot of questions with that performance. Yeah, Rousey and Tate's grappling styles are very different, judo vs wrestling, but Holm showed things that can potentially be applied against other grapplers as well. She showed excellent timing with her footwork to get out of grappling range, excellent placement of her hips in clinch positions, she kept a cool head and didn't panic in clinch positions or on takedown attempts, and when she was taken down and put in some bother (a Rousey armbar attempt, doesn't get much more bother than that as far as grappling goes), she remained calm and worked her way out of danger. Basically, she's clearly trained extensively on takedown, clinch and submission defence. One thing Tate has going for her is she won't be as reckless as Ronda was rushing in and stuff. But I think she's going to have a rough time trying to outgrapple someone like Holm who has sharp timing, footwork and, most crucially, distance management. She offers little threat to Holm on the feet so, on paper, Holm only really has to worry about one gameplan here.

 

And I'm not even sure Miesha being more patient than Ronda is necessarily all that good a thing. That might just end up meaning Holm can time her counterstrikes easier because Tate will be at striking distance for longer spells rather than bullrushing in all the time, which at least put Holm under some pressure, even though she wasn't troubling Holm. If Tate pisses about on the outside trying to be too fancy with her takedown entries and stuff, I see her getting lit up like an Amsterdam hooker's window quick.

 

I get what you're saying though. And that's a common thing in predicting fights. People often just go on the latest fights. The 'what have you done lately?' mentality. Obviously recent fights will be the more relevant to go off but you can't just go off one fight because, well, the old 'styles make fights' phrase is actually true.

 

But yeah I have always fancied Tate to beat Holm, I said that before the Ronda fight and I still say it. Tate is an elite fighter, former Strikeforce Champion and her only defeats in the UFC have come to Ronda and Zandango (which was in controversial manner). She doesn't get enough credit.

Miesha Tate is an excellent fighter. You're right. People do sell her short. I think her looks work against her a bit in that way, actually. I think sometimes people write her off as a pretty face but she can scrap and she's tough as fuck. There's been loads of cases where she's been losing fights and came back to win. Anyone who didn't see her fight with Julie Kedzie in Strikeforce, I'd recommend giving it a look. She took beating early, including getting dropped by a flush headkick, and she somehow came through with a submission win. It was a brilliant fight. Shades of the old Pride Big Nog comeback shit.

 

I'm as guilty as anyone of selling Miesha short. I picked Jessica Eye to beat her. I picked Sara McMann to beat her. I even thought Rin Nakai might surprise her. I don't know what it is about her. I KNOW she's good. I watched her come back from the brink to submit Marloes Coenen (who I really rated) and Julie Kedzie. I've seen her give Cat Zingano (you say Zandango, let's call the whole thing off) fits for two rounds before getting stopped. I saw her take Ronda into the third round when no-one else was lasting one. Yet I still kept counting her out.

 

I think it's a combination of her being a slow starter plus her weak striking. She's started looking bit better in her striking in recent fights, to be fair. Sure she dropped Eye a couple of times. But she still eats way too many strikes for me, especially early on. And she's eaten them against less accurate or polished strikers than Holm as well.

 

I don't know. Just looking at the two of them, I have a hard time seeing Tate winning. She might get the odd takedown but I can't see her finishing Holm and I can't see the one-note gameplan of purely going for takedowns working for five rounds for a points win either.

 

 

Oh and I still haven't seen that McGregor vs Diaz press conference yet. Been busy with my daughter being ill the last couple of days. Watched a little clip this morning and read the quotes on here. Sounds amazing. "He's a credit to the community" I'll have to watch it later.

[Dead Mike]

I can't see him ever going back to FW, there's not really anything left to gain for him to do so. There's only Edgar there for him at FW, a fight which will not change his legacy one bit really if he won.

 

 

Really? I think if 'legacy' is important to McGregor he'll want to be a defending champion. Look at the fighters who's names come up when talking about the GOAT's & look how many times they defended their titles. If you want to be mentioned in the same breath as GSP, Jones, Aldo, DJ, Couture etc then title defences are massively important.

 

On the flipside, if he wants to make $100m & disappear while he's still young, completely injury free & not getting migraines & slurring his speech then there's no need to ever go back to FW.

[David]

If legacy is important to him Mike, I tend to think that fighting guys who are 155lbs & 170lbs will figure higher up his list. He's already beaten the greatest 145lbs fighter of all time. In 13 seconds. You can't better that.

 

On top of that, if he's put on a load of muscle to compete at 155 - 170 then it'll be a right bugger getting it back off again. That's a totally different proposition to losing "walking around" weight, as they call it.

[Dead Mike]

If legacy is important to him Mike, I tend to think that fighting guys who are 155lbs & 170lbs will figure higher up his list. He's already beaten the greatest 145lbs fighter of all time. In 13 seconds. You can't better that.

 

Yeah, beating Aldo in 13 seconds without taking a shot is an incredible achievement but it still stands that the likes of Jones also beat everyone in their division to get the belt then beat them again whilst defending it. That betters winning a belt & never defending it, no?

[herbie747]

 

If legacy is important to him Mike, I tend to think that fighting guys who are 155lbs & 170lbs will figure higher up his list. He's already beaten the greatest 145lbs fighter of all time. In 13 seconds. You can't better that.

 

Yeah, beating Aldo in 13 seconds without taking a shot is an incredible achievement but it still stands that the likes of Jones also beat everyone in their division to get the belt then beat them again whilst defending it. That betters winning a belt & never defending it, no?

 

Not if he wins the FW, LW, and WW titles - that would be a legacy nobody else could equal. Way more than just being a longterm defending champion.

[David]

Not if he wins the FW, LW, and WW titles - that would be a legacy nobody else could equal. Way more than just being a longterm defending champion.

 

Being honest though Herbie, do you really think he's going to be competitive at welterweight against the guys who compete at the top of that division? You're talking about a champion who competed comfortably at middleweight, and who has been known to walk around at 200lbs.

 

There comes a point where a great big guy is always going to better a great little guy. 

 

McGregor for me is a natural 155lbs fighter from what I've seen of him. He can be competitive at that weight.

 

Can he be competitive against fellow fighters who are small at welter, such as Nate Diaz? Absolutely.

 

But against the likes of Lawler? Hendricks? Wonderboy? Tyrone Woodley? Damien Maia? I can't see it.

 

The real fight for McGregor is the Dos Anjos fight (although, he'd maybe be better served giving it the patter he was at the presser, saying that Dos Anjos has lost his shot etc and see if RDA maybe losses to a Pettis, Ferguson or Alvarez. I think those guys pose Conor less problems than RDA does), so let's see where he goes after the Diaz exhibition bout.

[DJM]

Someone has threatened to shoot McGregor based upon his comments made towards Diaz.

 

http://fansided.com/2016/02/24/ufc-gun-threat-conor-mcgregor-ak-47/