New Japan iPPV thread

[pgi86]

Takahasi, Makabe, Ishii and Honma are all mid-card guys who move up and down a bit. Makabe recently got a main event title shot and was great.

A bit of a correction here. Makabe is more than a midcarder and should not be put together in the same group as these other three guys because he's above their level. Like you said, he moves up and down the card but generally he's considered to be one of New Japan's four top stars (the other three being Tanahashi, Nakamura & Okada, who replaced Goto in the spot). Those four guys are always front and center on all the NJPW posters and are clearly positioned as the key guys. This is especially evident at the big January 4th shows where for the past few years the top matches have been built around the four top guys.

[SSJLogan]

Ishii is having a cracking little feud with Suzuki at the moment.

[Flatulent Dad]

Okay fair enough - Can anyone recomend some shows that don't stretch too far back to try attempt getting into the product?

 

EDIT* I take it there's also a list of the shows in-order etc?

 

 

These made my list of all-time great Japanese shows, an achievement in itself as I set the bar high. Some highly recommended matches, but the main reason they made the list was for the sheer level of consistency:

 

New Japan - The New Beginning, 12.2.12

New Japan - Wrestling Dontaku, 3.5.12

New Japan - Dominion, 16.6.12

New Japan - WrestleKingdom VII, 4.1.13

 

My ratings for the 12.2.12 show have almost every match as being an improvement on the one that preceded it - a virtually perfect card.

 

I understand why WWE references were used earlier in the thread, but I prefer to think of the Tanahashi/Nakamura situation in terms of Mutoh/Hashimoto during the 90s.

[air_raid]

Nakamura as Orton to Tanahashi's Cena is a near flawless comparison. Even the timelines almost correlate.

 

Nakamura broke in and was pushed to main event very clearly while Hash was still working his way up the midcard, and got to the top title quicker, and younger. However Tanahashi caught up to and surpassed Nakamura who spent a few years building himself back up to title contention with a feeling that the first win and (brief) reign was too much, too soon. Tana has been on top for virtually the whole time since, and although Shins'kay permanently carries that threat of being good enough to win the big belt and has - three times to Tanahashi's six - he's never really been positioned as The Man, because there's only room at the top for one. On the more smarky boards I visit, it's definitely more popular to be a fan of Nakamura since he's "cooler" than Tana, and some dickheads often pipe up and complain that it's "boring" that Tanahashi is on top all the time and remarks like "spoiler for next show : Tanahashi wins (grumpy face)" pop up, but even among smarks, they're pretty quickly battered with "he's the best. Shut up, and fuck off." Most importantly of course, Tanahashi and Nakamura have wrestled for the belt a few times, including main eventing Wrestle Kingdom with each other as Cena/Orton one on one should have main evented WMXXIV. The only thing Tana/Shinsuke have done that Cena/Orton haven't is been tag team champions together.

 

I'll knock something more detailed up in a bit, for the interested.

[seanz25]

Nakamura as Orton to Tanahashi's Cena is a near flawless comparison. Even the timelines almost correlate.

 

Nakamura broke in and was pushed to main event very clearly while Hash was still working his way up the midcard, and got to the top title quicker, and younger. However Tanahashi caught up to and surpassed Nakamura who spent a few years building himself back up to title contention with a feeling that the first win and (brief) reign was too much, too soon. Tana has been on top for virtually the whole time since, and although Shins'kay permanently carries that threat of being good enough to win the big belt and has - three times to Tanahashi's six - he's never really been positioned as The Man, because there's only room at the top for one. On the more smarky boards I visit, it's definitely more popular to be a fan of Nakamura since he's "cooler" than Tana, and some dickheads often pipe up and complain that it's "boring" that Tanahashi is on top all the time and remarks like "spoiler for next show : Tanahashi wins (grumpy face)" pop up, but even among smarks, they're pretty quickly battered with "he's the best. Shut up, and fuck off." Most importantly of course, Tanahashi and Nakamura have wrestled for the belt a few times, including main eventing Wrestle Kingdom with each other as Cena/Orton one on one should have main evented WMXIV. The only thing Tana/Shinsuke have done that Cena/Orton haven't is been tag team champions together.

 

I'll knock something more detailed up in a bit, for the interested.

 

That'd be good. Watched two matches from invasion show so far one was a solid tag match with Devit and Shelly the other match was a not so great 8 man tag featuring Bob Sapp. Featured a commentator being spray painted gold for whatever reason!

[SSJLogan]

Has Suzuki ever been booked over here before? The guy is just super class and would love to see him live.

[air_raid]

Has Suzuki ever been booked over here before? The guy is just super class and would love to see him live.

 

Yes. He and Naomichi Marufuji won the Noah tag belts from Doug Williams and Scorpio in June 2005 in of all places Morecambe on an FWA show. I was there. On the DVD you can hear three losers shouting "Shiranui!!" when Marufuji nails the match-winning Shiranui (duh!) on Scorp - that's me and my two mates, one of whom is the one that puts me up in Tokyo.

 

Anyway, here's the Tanahashi/Nakamura piece I promised earlier. I've not gone so far back as Hash's debut and just chronicled each man's ascent to the Heavyweight title scene, which in Nakamura's case started pretty much with his debut. I've only included major non-title events up to both winning their first title, after that it's just title wins and losses for each, and when they've wrestled each other. It's a bit bulky so I've put it in spoiler tags so it doesn't clog up the thread but people that want to read it, can.

 

<-- click on 'spoiler' to show/hide the spoiler

 

 

29/08/2002 - Nakamura debuts, although he does not wrestle for New Japan again until 04/01/2003 as he concentrates on shoot fighting, which is a major factor in his sbsequent push.

 

23/04/2003 - Tanahashi defeats Shinya (now Togi) Makabe in a tournament final to become the first U30 champion, a title specifically designed for New Japan's young lions under the age of 30. He would successfully defend it for nearly two years and the title would become synonymous with him.

 

13/06/2003 - Nakamura main events Budokan Hall for the first time, unsuccessfully challnging the monstrous Yoshihiro Takayama for the NWF Heavyweight title. In the semi-main, Tanahashi and partner Yutaka Yoshie upset Masahiro Chono & Hiroyoshi Tenzan for the tag team title.

 

05/07/2003 - Tanahashi & Nakamura team up for the first time in a throwaway six-man on a B-show in Odawara and again the next night in Gifu. They wrestle against each other for the first time in a tag match in Noheji on the 16th.

 

13/10/2003 - Tanahashi & Nakamura play a part in a massive 40-minute elimination match as Inoki's team of shooters lead by IWGP Heavyweight Champion Yoshihiro Takayama (including Nakamura, Bob Sapp, Kazuyuki Fujita, Minoru Suzuki and Nakamura) turns back the team captained by #1 contender Hiroyoshi Tenzan (comprised of Yuji Nagata, Manabu Nakanishi, Tanahashi and retired veteran Seiji Sakaguchi). Nakamura falls to a Nakanishi German suplex and is the first heel eliminated, Tanahashi fares surprisingly better and is the penultimate babyface eliminated, by a Bob Sapp powerbomb. Sapp & Suzuki survive.

 

09/12/2003 - Nakamura shocks Japanese wrestling and all it's fans by beating new heavyweight champ Hiroyoshi Tenzan in the latter's first title defence in just over 12 minutes with a cross armbreaker in Osaka. Nobody can quite believe it after the build Tenzan got, winning the G1 then powerfully going over Takayama, but just like that "Supernova" makes him look a chump and stands atop the mountain for the first time at the age of 23.

 

04/01/2004 - Nakamura main events the annual Tokyo Dome show for the first (but not last) time, beating Takayama with a chickenwing to unify the IWGP and NWF titles, sealing the latter. However due to a combination of injuries suffered both in a shoot fight with Alexey Ignashov (no contest) on New Years Eve and in this match, Nakamura is forced to vacate the title to recuperate. With a burgeoning wrestling career it is no surprise that his comeback MMA fight on May 22nd is his last - a rematch with Ignashov which fittingly Nakamura wins.

 

28/03/2004 - At Sumo Hall in his first full match back and in remarkable symmetry to their previous meeting, Nakamura beats Tenzan in just over 12 minutes with a cross armbreaker.

 

03/05/2004 - Nakamura is unsuccessful in his attempt at regaining the title from Bob Sapp, losing to two powerbombs at the Tokyo Dome,

 

15/08/2004 - Tanahashi, still the U30 champion and a star on the rise, gives an impressive showing making it all the way to the final of the G1 Climax before going down to Tenzan. Earlier in the night Nakamura had won a play-off with Masahiro Chono merely to guarantee 3rd in his group behind Katsuyori Shibata and the veteran Genichiro Tenryu.

 

11/12/2004 - Tanahashi & Nakamura win their first and to date only IWGP tag titles together in a decision match in Osaka against the more fancied and vastly more experienced duo of shooter Minoru Suzuki and New Japan legend Kensuke Sasaki when Tana pins Suzuki with his Dragon suplex.

 

04/01/2005 - Tanahashi VS Nakamura - their first singles match, fittingly, is on the biggest stage of them all, the annual Wrestling World (now Wrestle Kingdom) extravaganza at the Tokyo Dome. They even main event, with Nakamura putting Tanahashi down in 25 minutes with a cross armbreaker to capture the U30 (Under 30 years old) title. He would later vacate it and Tana would regain it in a tournament final before eventally sealing it to concentrate on the Heavyweight title in June 2006.

 

26/03/2005 - Nakamura challenges Satoshi Kojima for the Heavyweight title and extends him to a 60-minute time limit draw.

 

24/04/2005 - After going through Yuji Nagata and Koji Kanemoto in earlier rounds, Tanahashi pins Manabu Nakanishi after the Sling Blade to win the New Japan Cup (knock out tournament contested over three nights) to earn a future title shot. By comparison Nakamura is upset in the first round by Kendo Kashin.

 

05/06/2005 - Tanahashi is judged one of the top two contenders to the IWGP title to contest the "decision match" when former champion Bob Sapp relinquishes the title, but is defeated at Sumo Hall by shooter Kazuyuki Fujita.

 

07/08/2005 - Tanahashi VS Nakamura (2) - the pair meet again in the group stage of the G1 Climax in Osaka and Nakamura again submits Tana with a cross armbreaker.

 

30/10/2005 - Tanahashi & Nakamura finally lose the tag belts in their fifth defence, the dream team going down to the recently reunited legendary ChoTen partnership of Masahiro Chono and Hiroyoshi Tenzan when Nakamura submits to Chono in Kobe.

 

04/01/2006 - Nakamura challenges Brock Lesnar for the big one on the biggest show of the year but disappointingly falls to the Verdict (F5) in just under nine minutes.

 

05/02/2006 - Tanahashi VS Nakamura (3) - Tanahashi finally pins his rival in Tsukisamu with a Dragon suplex.

 

17/07/2006 - Tanahashi finds Tsukisamu lucky again. With Brock Lesnar unable to appear for his scheduled title defence against Tanahashi, New Japan strip him and hold a one night tournament to crown a new champion. After going over Yuji Nagata in the semi, Tanahashi pins Giant Bernard after the Sling Blade in the final to win his first heavyweight title at the age of 29.

 

10/12/2006 - Tanahashi VS Nakamura (4) The IWGP Champ gains parity in his rivalry with Nakamura, pinning him in Aichi to retain in his second title defence with a Dragon suplex.

 

13/04/2007 - Tanahashi loses the belt to New Japan Cup winner, Yuji Nagata,

 

05/08/2007 - Tanahashi VS Nakamura (5) - the pair wrestle to a 30 minute draw in a G1 group stage match. Nakamura ends up losing a semi final to heavyweight champion Nagata in the semi by doctor stoppage, and in the final Tanahashi gains a measure of revenge (and future title shot) by pinning Nagata with the move he becomes synonymous with - the High Fly Flow.

 

08/10/2007 - Tanahashi returns to Sumo Hall and completes his revenge, taking the title back from Nagata with the High Fly Flow.

 

04/01/2008 - Tanahashi VS Nakamura (6) The two collide, as destined, for New Japan's top title at their WrestleMania, Wrestle Kingdom II. Shinsuke finally returns to the top of the mountain via the Landslide and taking the lead over Tana in their career rivalry, 3-2-1.

 

30/03/2008 - Tanahashi VS Nakamura (7) Nakamura makes a second defence against his eternal rival New Japan Cup winner Tanahashi at Korakuen Hall and puts him away with that old standby, the cross armbreaker.

 

27/04/2008 - Nakamura loses the belt to veteran Keiji Muto in Osaka.

 

13/10/2008 - Nakamura marches into Sumo Hall and is expected to regain the gold for New Japan from the outsider Muto but falls to a frankensteiner and pin cradle.

 

04/01/2009 - Tanahashi, the man you want on the big stage, regains the title at Wrestle Kingdom III at the Tokyo Dome, pinning Muto after the High Fly Flow.

 

15/02/2009 - Tanahashi VS Nakamura (8) Tanahashi High Fly Flows his way to a second title defence at Sumo Hall. 4-3-1 to Nakamura.

 

06/05/2009 - Tanahashi shockingly losees the belt to Manabu Nakanishi at Korakuen Hall.

 

20/06/2009 - Tanahashi regains the title in Osaka with the High Fly Flow.

 

16/08/2009 - Tanahashi VS Nakamura (9) Nakamura exerts his dominance over the incumbent IWGP champ in the G1 semi, putting him away with his devastating knee strike, Boma Ye which accidentally fractures Tana's eye socket. Unfortunately for him, Togi Makabe is unstoppable in the final itself.

 

27/09/2009 - Nakamura defeats Makabe in Kobe to win the Heavyweight title that Hash had to vacate due to his injury. The Boma Ye wins the match for him, of course. In America they'd probably have banned the move if it had injured the WWE Champion, for example, but this is Japan, where they're men.

 

08/11/2009 - Tanahashi VS Nakamura (10) Tanahashi comes back for his title shot at Sumo Hall but falls to Boma Ye. 6-3-1.

 

03/05/2010 - Nakamura does the honours for Makabe again and drops the title to him in Fukuoka.

 

19/07/2010 - Nakamura gets his rematch in Tsukisamu but Makabe beats him again.

 

11/12/2010 - Nakamura goes for the title again in Osaka against new champion Satoshi Kojima, but fails again.

 

04/01/2011 - Tanahashi inevitably is the one to take the belt back from the freelancer at Wrestle Kingdom V, pinning Kojima at the Dome equally inevitably with the High Fly Flow.

 

03/05/2011 - Tanahashi VS Nakamura (11) After nearly two years without meeting, Fukuoka is the setting for their latest. The High Fly Flow ends it.

 

19/09/2011 - Tanahashi VS Nakamura (12) G1 Climax winner Nakamura goes for the gold in Kobe... but goes down to a High Fly Flow. The score between the two is now 6-5-1 in Nakamura's favour, and they haven't wrestled each other since. Neither has Chaos leader Nakamura challenged for the gold since.

 

12/02/2012 - Tanahashi is shockingly upset by Kazuchika Okada in the latter's second big match back from TNA in Osaka.

 

16/06/2012 - Tanahashi returns to the scene of the crime and makes it a record-tying six Heavyweight titles, via the High Fly Flow.

 

07/04/2013 - Tanahashi drops the title to the Rainmaker (Okada) via The Rainmaker (move) at Sumo Hall. He hasn't challenged for it since.

 

 

[close spoiler]

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As you can see, the fact they haven't wrestled each other for two years and the fact Nakamura hasn't challenged for the title in two years adds confidence to my prediction of a Tanahashi/Nakamura G1 final with Nakamura unseating Okada in September.

 

The Tanahashi / Okada history is much easier to chart at this point :

 

12/02/12 - Tanahashi defends vs Okada - Okada wins title, Rainmaker (Osaka)

16/06/12 - Okada defends vs Tanahashi - Tana wins title, High Fly Flow (Osaka)

04/01/13 - Tanahashi defends vs Okada - Tana retains, High Fly Flow (Tokyo Dome)

07/04/13 - Tanahashi defends vs Okada - Okada wins title, Rainmaker (Sumo Hall)

[seanz25]

I should add as a newcomer watching this stuff - I feel if someone would record a podcast commentary to run over the top - I'd gain so much more and a lot of newcomers would probably take more interest.

[pryko]

Nakamura as Orton to Tanahashi's Cena is a near flawless comparison. Even the timelines almost correlate.

 

Nakamura broke in and was pushed to main event very clearly while Hash was still working his way up the midcard, and got to the top title quicker, and younger. However Tanahashi caught up to and surpassed Nakamura who spent a few years building himself back up to title contention with a feeling that the first win and (brief) reign was too much, too soon. Tana has been on top for virtually the whole time since, and although Shins'kay permanently carries that threat of being good enough to win the big belt and has - three times to Tanahashi's six - he's never really been positioned as The Man, because there's only room at the top for one. On the more smarky boards I visit, it's definitely more popular to be a fan of Nakamura since he's "cooler" than Tana, and some dickheads often pipe up and complain that it's "boring" that Tanahashi is on top all the time and remarks like "spoiler for next show : Tanahashi wins (grumpy face)" pop up, but even among smarks, they're pretty quickly battered with "he's the best. Shut up, and fuck off." Most importantly of course, Tanahashi and Nakamura have wrestled for the belt a few times, including main eventing Wrestle Kingdom with each other as Cena/Orton one on one should have main evented WMXIV. The only thing Tana/Shinsuke have done that Cena/Orton haven't is been tag team champions together.

 

I'll knock something more detailed up in a bit, for the interested.

This guide has been really helpful, and I'd also quite like to get into some NJPW, as since I first saw Tanahashi and Nakamura, I liked the looks of them and fancied them to become big stars.

 

One thing though, and this off topic from NJPW, do you really think orton vs Cena should have main evented Wrestlamania 14 over HBK vs Stone Cold!? Neither were even in the WWE then

[air_raid]

One thing though, and this off topic from NJPW, do you really think orton vs Cena should have main evented Wrestlamania 14 over HBK vs Stone Cold!? Neither were even in the WWE then

 

Hah! Good catch.

[IANdrewDiceClay]

Speaking of WrestleMania XIV, I've always loved the photographers around the ring in Japanese wrestling. And when WWE have allowed them at ringside, it just makes it look special when you see the flashes going off and the crowds of people around the ring area. New Japan especially have such a big time feel about it. Even when they run smaller venues, there's just something about the way its put together. I think the razamataz and the flashiness is well underrated when it comes to Japanese wrestler. I think indy groups copy the wrong things about Japanese wrestling.

[JNLister]

They certainly did an amazing job on the most recent iPPV of making it look like a huge crowd when it was actually only 4,000 (albeit in a small building.)

[air_raid]

That's what makes the shows at Korakuen so powerful. 2000 people in a small building that just LOOKS like it's special (inside) with the banners up on the balcony walls. Plus they're the most longtime, hardcore fans so they generate so much noise. Especially when it's Super No Vacancy and the place is packed to bursting with people standing, every human being there happy to be there and in the case of the standers, grateful to have been squeezed in. It's amazing going up those stairs, it always shocks me seeing people choosing the lift instead. I mean, Sumo Hall gets deafening at certain points (especially chanting for Nagata or Tenzan) but it's not quite the same.

 

But yeah, the photographers around the ring and the wrestlers posing for the photos before/afterwards, the in-ring introductions of the main event guys, the 100% adherence to "challenger(s) come out first", the trophies, cheques and handshakes with dignitaries when you win something big... the fact that matches are just made by a committee or determined by contenders fighting each other rather being booked on the fly by some megalomaniac in the aisleway, and the fact that the entire card is announced in advance and the match order too... it all adds to the "this is sport" dimension. Yeah, it's drama and it's choreographed, but it's pretend sport.

 

Completely OT, I think it's hilarious the way an Indy fed can never/barely promote outside of their area, but then their champion comes back after some tour and they can say "look, I know we never run shows outside Florida/Yorkshire/wherever, but Chris was over in Oberhausen last week, and since he was booked to win, he defended our strap to the confusion of the locals saying "what the fuck is that belt" and it means now we can call him our WORLD Heavyweight Champion!" ........ especially when the IWGP Heavyweight title has NEVER been referred to as the "World" title by the company, even though they've ran shows in other countries and the belt has been defended all over the world. Perception is more important than presentation, and just because you say you're a "World Champion" doesn't make it true.

[Dai]

After reading the enthusiasm in this thread, I have download the Lister recommended shows, and will give them a blast over the weekend. Have never been able to get into NJPW over the years, and always prefered NOAH by a huge margin, but seems like now is a good chance to see what theyre up to.

[air_raid]

Have never been able to get into NJPW over the years, and always prefered NOAH by a huge margin, but seems like now is a good chance to see what theyre up to.

 

Well, someone's got to I suppose. I think Noah's been in the shitter since they gave the belt to Sugiura to be honest.