UFC On Fuel TV: Franklin vs Le Discussion Thread

[wandshogun09]

Rest of the show was very hit and miss I thought. Not one finish until the co-main either which didn't help. Some good fights and some shite.

 

Silva vs Nedkov

Bit of an odd one. I still don't really like Nedkov much. He looks dangerous but I don't think he's much more than a banger with a lot of power and little technique. He seemed to gas pretty quick and once Silva got him to the ground he offered little to no resistance. Some of the complaints about low blows seemed like distress signals to me as well. The first one was clearly low but he was moaning a couple of times after that and I didn't think they were low.

 

Wasn't a great fight but had some great moments. The bit in the first with them both swinging haymakers, the late knockdown in the second and of course the finish. The rest was just Nedkov clinching and doing fuck all. Seriously, Silva did more damage with them slaps to the ears than Nedkov was doing. Controlling the cage is all well and good but he did nowt aside from the knockdown in the second.

 

Nice to see Silva pick up the stoppage. It had been ages since we'd seen this...

 

 

I think there's still some good fights to be had with him. Still wouldn't mind seeing that Silva vs Shogun fight we were meant to get at 149 at some point.

 

Stun Gun vs Paulo Thiago

Disappointing fight, Kim did nothing wrong though. I was just disappointed that Thiago was so ineffective. I thought this would be better to be honest but Kim looked good. Totally dominant performance and he was always working for the finish so can't fault him for that. I think Thiago gets his walking papers now sadly. Always liked him.

 

Loved this bit though...

 

Gomi vs Danzig

I thought this was really good. Probably my FOTN. Best Gomi's looked in the UFC so far. True to form he gassed late on but it was a solid showing. He didn't rely solely on his power for once, he used some rare straight punching, a nice jab, some wrestling. And he actually survived some strong submission attempts. He looked pretty good.

 

I didn't get the crowd booing the decision. I had Gomi taking rounds 1 and 3. Round 1 was close but it's not a bad decision at all and I felt the right man won. Danzig didn't look bad but I thought Gomi outworked him. Loved the duel ankle locks.

 

A pleasant surprise from Gomi here.

 

Zhang vs Tuck

This would be my other FOTN contender. Great fight. Tuck looked really good the first 2 rounds, his grappling style reminded me a lot of BJ Penn's. Zhang came on late but he didn't have quite enough left to force a finish and by that point he needed one to win. Really fun fight though. Shame Zhang had to lose on home soil. Despite being 0-3 in his last 3, I think he might get another shot coming off this fight.

 

Other stuff

 

*Mizugaki looked great against Hougland. Battered him everywhere. Hougland's a tough bastard, he was still trying to the very end but Mizugaki seemed to have him beat on all fronts.

 

*Caceres/Tezuka wasn't as good as Caceres' previous fights but still decent enough. The first round was great though. And we did get this at least...

 

 

Couldn't believe one judge scored it for Tezuka though.

 

*Lineker vs Urushitani was bags of fun I thought. I like this John Lineker. He's constantly coming forward and always aggressive. That's 2 really good fights he's had now in the UFC, this and the Gaudinot fight.

 

So yeah not a great show but not a bad one at all. I'm guessing it will get shat on due to the high amount of decisions but there was some good stuff as well. Gomi/Danzig, Zhang/Tuck and Lineker/Urushitani are the must sees of this. And of course the main event. 3 very enjoyable fights, a couple of decent ones and a huge KO in the main event. Not bad going.

 

Oh and I really like that one ring girl. Jessica something or other. There's something about her.

 

Here's the KO again for those who only read the last page...

 

 

Couple of other gifs from the show;

 

Tezuka's entrance

 

Donnie Yen

[Shane O' Mac Version 2]

Oh and I really like that one ring girl. Jessica something or other. There's something about her.

Me too, and overall I'm not really into Asian girls. I think it it was her "come fuck me" eyes, as we call them, she looked like she was horny as hell, maybe she was really attracted to the cameraman?

 

I totally forgot Barboza/Etim was in the same calendar year, thought that was last years KOTY and Le/Franklin was the late entrant for this year's winner. Funny that, I've been saying this year has gone really quickly, but I guess the MMA year has dragged with cancellations, injuries and what not.

[wandshogun09]

Oh and I really like that one ring girl. Jessica something or other. There's something about her.

Me too, and overall I'm not really into Asian girls. I think it it was her "come fuck me" eyes, as we call them, she looked like she was horny as hell, maybe she was really attracted to the cameraman?

 

Nah she just knew I was watching...

 

 

She wants me.

 

Did no-one watch this then? Surprisingly little discussion.

 

Awards were;

 

Fight Of The Night - Gomi vs Danzig

Knockout Of The Night - Cung Le

Submission Of The Night - Thiago Silva

 

They got $40K each.

[Shane O' Mac Version 2]

Maybe the odd timing threw off some of the regular watchers. Was definitely worth watching, a lot of fights may have went to decision, but overall they were still entertaining. Even Stun Gun's domination of Thiago was kinda fun to watch, with Thiago's increasing visible frustration and DHK's flurry of freaking double punches to finish the fight off. Loved it.

 

Even with the high volume of decisions, it wasn't like the fighters were trying to ride it out. Mizugaki was delivering some harsh GnP, Zhang vs Tuck was a skilled ground battle, Gomi vs. Danzig had a constant fast pace and Nedkov was trying to get the fight to the ground to GnP, and when that wasn't working he swung with bad intentions. I tend to think Thiago Silva could have gotten his walking papers if he got finished at the end of that second, his recent history has been a few losses and a NC from a dodgy piss test. Hopefully he can go for a run at 205, that division needs depth like Roy Nelson needs a diet plan.

 

Good night of fights, not a card of the year candidate but very solid, and you can't end a card better than the way Cung delivered that KO.

 

Also, fuck Steve Percival. He was imploring the fighters to work literally the second the fight went to the ground. A MMA referee should have far better awareness of the game than that.

[Egg Shen]

Also, fuck Steve Percival. He was imploring the fighters to work literally the second the fight went to the ground. A MMA referee should have far better awareness of the game than that.

Percival was annoying me at the beginning of the night but i warmed to him as the night went on, he was very audible throughout the night even saying 'don't leave it in the hands of the judges' several times but despite that and the constant ground warnings he didn't actually make any rash decisions to stand anyone up, it just came off as a bit of encouragement to me in the end.

 

thoughts:

 

* Gutted for Franklin, i genuinley hoped to see him have one last run at the 185lb title in 2013 but Le's completely derailed that. No one's mentioned it here but i just don't think Cung Le looked right, he got the KO but before that he seemed slow and pudgy, he mentioned Rich doing a good job to stay out of the range of kicks but he just didn't seem like the same Cung Le to me....i think the OTT celebration was partly relief. There was talk of Le being hurt going in and i think he was grateful that he landed a hail mary shot. I might be wrong but that's the impression i got.

 

* Nedkov/Silva was a strange fight, Nedkov continued to press Silva against the cage to no success, but he kept going for it, eventually tiring himself out and making himself easy pickings for Silva in round 3. Nedkov needed a plan B, problem is i think the way he fought is the only way he can fight. Thiago didn't look good but that was down to fighting Nedkov who must be a nightmare for most guys to fight.

 

* Zhang/Tuck would have taken FOTN for me, some quality grappling exchanges. I hope Zhang gets 1 more shot (he's lost his last 3), he's been doing the promotional thing for the show so i think they may do him a solid and give him one more crack, fought his heart out too.

 

* Stun Gun just fucking swallowed Thiago...there's some guys that must be a nightmare to fight and Kim is one of them, just a massive, strong 170lb'er that overwhelms his opponent. Florian used to the old 'quicksand' analogy and it's never been so appropriate. The final flurry of double hammers was classic.

 

* So happy for Gomi. I'll always have a soft spot for the Pride guys and i hate the fact that so many just haven't delivered in the UFC. He still doesn't seem the same explosive snap of old but he looked good. I think Gomi's obvious flaws mean he'll never be a contender but there's so many fun fights to make because of his style. Danzig always delivers decent fights too, he can't string two wins together but he's good for a scrap.

 

Decision heavy show, but i enjoyed it.

[wandshogun09]

No one's mentioned it here but i just don't think Cung Le looked right, he got the KO but before that he seemed slow and pudgy, he mentioned Rich doing a good job to stay out of the range of kicks but he just didn't seem like the same Cung Le to me....i think the OTT celebration was partly relief. There was talk of Le being hurt going in and i think he was grateful that he landed a hail mary shot. I might be wrong but that's the impression i got.

 

Yeah I put that down to Cung's foot injury. It was touch and go for a while whether he'd even be ready for this event. It would also explain why he looked a bit chubby being that it would have hindered his cardio training a bit. If the fight would have gone past the 1st round I think he'd have gassed sometime in the 2nd and Franklin would have overwhelmed him.

 

I'm seeing a lot of people calling for Franklin to retire but I think that's a bit harsh. Everyone was saying how good he looked against Wand in Brazil, then he gets KO'd and suddenly he should just hang 'em up. He got caught early, shit happens. He'll be back.

 

You're spot on that it's well and truly cocked up any hopes of one last title run for the forseeable future though. He's right back in his usual position again of just having fun but largely meaningless name fights.

 

Nedkov needed a plan B, problem is i think the way he fought is the only way he can fight. Thiago didn't look good but that was down to fighting Nedkov who must be a nightmare for most guys to fight.

 

This is how I see Nedkov. He's awkward to deal with but I don't think he's that good at all. He has one way to fight and we know now that when that doesn't work he starts to fade. Bit of Sokoudjou-itis.

 

On another note, I Sky+'d the midnight showing of this from Saturday night and I noticed that unlike the live showings of FX/FUEL shows, they leave the entrances and the between rounds/in the corner stuff intact for anyone who likes to see all that stuff.

[Shane O' Mac Version 2]

No one's mentioned it here but i just don't think Cung Le looked right, he got the KO but before that he seemed slow and pudgy, he mentioned Rich doing a good job to stay out of the range of kicks but he just didn't seem like the same Cung Le to me....i think the OTT celebration was partly relief. There was talk of Le being hurt going in and i think he was grateful that he landed a hail mary shot. I might be wrong but that's the impression i got.

 

Yeah I put that down to Cung's foot injury. It was touch and go for a while whether he'd even be ready for this event. It would also explain why he looked a bit chubby being that it would have hindered his cardio training a bit. If the fight would have gone past the 1st round I think he'd have gassed sometime in the 2nd and Franklin would have overwhelmed him.

 

I'm seeing a lot of people calling for Franklin to retire but I think that's a bit harsh. Everyone was saying how good he looked against Wand in Brazil, then he gets KO'd and suddenly he should just hang 'em up. He got caught early, shit happens. He'll be back.

About the bit in bold, I don't know if I agree with that. Cung has looked chubby to me in his previous fights with Wanderlei and Cote as well. I'm in full agreeance about Cung being relieved about the early finish, he was slowed and I never bought into Florian's assertion that he would be the faster fighter against Franklin regardless of the injury, I said pre-fight that he doesn't seem that agile when fighting, he just has excellent timing from his years of striking experience.

 

Wand, I also thought that Rich would get a second round finish on a gassed Le. Franklin definitely isn't past it, as you say he just got caught, the same way Cain Velasquez did. In fact he looked better than Cain in the brief time he was fighting, he physically looked in great shape and came in quickly with technical combinations. Cung Le is simply a great striker, and when standing he always has a great chance. Good for him to get a big win here, but I noticed when Anik said, "Perhaps the best is yet to come," Le was non-committal. In fairness, I think Le knows his ceiling and this win is about as good as it could realistically get for him in the UFC. I'd like to see Le step away and continue his movies, while setting up Rich for a featured retirement fight on PPV. While he could easily fight on for another couple of years, Franklin is never going to get that title fight, he's already been slaughtered by Anderson and he's achieved all he can in MMA. I think he should be rewarded with a big PPV payday and a final chance to leave the Octagon victorious.

[wandshogun09]

About the bit in bold, I don't know if I agree with that. Cung has looked chubby to me in his previous fights with Wanderlei and Cote as well. I'm in full agreeance about Cung being relieved about the early finish, he was slowed and I never bought into Florian's assertion that he would be the faster fighter against Franklin regardless of the injury, I said pre-fight that he doesn't seem that agile when fighting, he just has excellent timing from his years of striking experience

 

Yeah Cung hasn't exactly looked lean for years. He's had that stocky build to him for a long time, but I thought he looked particularly soft this fight. I don't know really, I'd have to look at how he looked in the Wand and Cote fights again but I thought it was the worst he's looked physically and I just assumed it was down to his foot injury.

 

Regardless, if he was a bit porkier than usual, I'm sure the extra weight came in handy when that punch landed anyway

 

While he could easily fight on for another couple of years, Franklin is never going to get that title fight, he's already been slaughtered by Anderson and he's achieved all he can in MMA. I think he should be rewarded with a big PPV payday and a final chance to leave the Octagon victorious.

 

Oh yeah, Franklin could walk away today and be content with what he's done in MMA. He's not going to seriously win a world title again, guys like Anderson and Jones are leagues ahead of him. I'm not saying he should fight on, but I hate when a guy loses and everyone immediately jumps on the "he needs to stop" shite. It's not like he's Ali in '81, he looked as sharp as ever against Wand (2nd round aside) in June. He can still go with guys at the same level as him.

 

If he still wants to of course. And that's what it comes down to for me, if he wants to carry on I don't think he should be pressured to stop. I wouldn't mind seeing him fight Bisping if Bisping loses to Belfort. It's a shame Bonnar fucked up because Franklin back at 205 vs Stephan Bonnar would be a fun fight as well.

 

But yeah, if he does decide to retire he's had a great career. He had a good run with the belt, was part of the dominant camp of the early 2000s and he's fought pretty much everyone of his era. There's no-one out there he really needs to fight, even the name fights for him now have pretty much all been done.

 

I guess we'll see what happens. Physically I think he could still go on and have probably a couple more years but personally he might just think what's the point if he's not likely to be in contention again.

[Bus Surfer]

As far as Franklin goes I don't think he should hang them up just yet, I'd love a fight with Bisping, but their career paths are going other ways it seems right now. Plenty more left for Rich though. As said, he won't be a contender, but there are still a few marketable and fun fights for him.

[Egg Shen]

Probably depends on whether or not Franklin was pinning it all on 'one last run' or whether he's just happy competing.

[David]

As far as Franklin goes I don't think he should hang them up just yet, I'd love a fight with Bisping, but their career paths are going other ways it seems right now.

 

Plenty more left for Rich though. As said, he won't be a contender, but there are still a few marketable and fun fights for him.

It can still be argued that Franklin is the #2 middleweight in the UFC at present. After his second loss to Anderson in 2007 he pretty much had no choice but to move division. The UFC must have known that having him knocking around at 185lbs, taking out contender after contender wouldn't do anyone any good.

 

I would pretty much favour him against both Bisping & Sonnen, with him taking both guys out by decision. Franklin vs Weidman would be an interesting fight, but again, that would risk him knocking off another up & coming contender.

 

In the past five years he's fought nine times, stepping in as a replacement on many occasions (in something like six different countries), and has fought at four different weights. I don't think there's ever been a fighter in the modern game with the UFC who's led such a nomadic life as far as their home division goes.

 

I certainly don't want to see him hang them up, as he's still a top class fighter, and a real test for anyone who isn't named Anderson Silva.

[Egg Shen]

How can it be argued that he's number 2? He just got knocked out by Cung Le in his first fight in the division for 5 years, and he only holds 1 victory over a current UFC middleweight.

[David]

How can it be argued that he's number 2? He just got knocked out by Cung Le in his first fight in the division for 5 years, and he only holds 1 victory over a current UFC middleweight.

As I said above, he basically had to move division because the UFC wouldn't have put him in with Anderson again, and he'd not have done them any favours by beating their contenders.

 

I've mentioned the top three UFC middleweights of recent months, and I don't think any of them would be a clear pick over Franklin. I wouldn't see Bisping beating him, nor Sonnen. You can throw Boetsch, Munoz, Okami and Stann into that catetgory as well.

 

Weidman would be an interesting fight, and is perhaps the only current middleweight I'd favour over Franklin, even if it was ever so slightly.

[wandshogun09]

There's still a fair few fights I'd love to see Franklin have so I'm also hoping he continues.

 

At 185...

 

Michael Bisping (I've brought this up a few times, love to see it)

Chris Weidman

Luke Rockhold

 

At 205...

 

Shogun Rua (How fucking great would Franklin vs Shogun be?)

Little Nog (Was scheduled for UFC 133 last year)

Rampage (If he sticks around)

Bonnar (If he fights again after the suspension)

 

And Chael Sonnen at either weight is a fight I've suggested a lot. Really interesting match up I think.

 

Some good fights available for Franklin still, if he decides to keep going.

[Egg Shen]

How can it be argued that he's number 2? He just got knocked out by Cung Le in his first fight in the division for 5 years, and he only holds 1 victory over a current UFC middleweight.

As I said above, he basically had to move division because the UFC wouldn't have put him in with Anderson again, and he'd not have done them any favours by beating their contenders.

 

I've mentioned the top three UFC middleweights of recent months, and I don't think any of them would be a clear pick over Franklin. I wouldn't see Bisping beating him, nor Sonnen. You can throw Boetsch, Munoz, Okami and Stann into that catetgory as well.

 

Weidman would be an interesting fight, and is perhaps the only current middleweight I'd favour over Franklin, even if it was ever so slightly.

Ok fair enough, i read that like you would rank Franklin at 2.