Magnum Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 If Cena went full-blown heel then which face wrestlers could he go against? He works as a face because it allows for him to have the odds stacked against him. Which wrestlers could realistically start going over him cleanly without it damaging Cena? Besides, Ian has hit it bang on. How do you tell your investors that you're about to turn your biggest merchandise seller into a baddy?  Again, not going into the rights and wrongs from a business/shareholder perspective, but I'd go as far as to say there's absolutely no chance of making any of the current roster into the kind of 'bonafide headliners' you talk about in your previous post without doing something drastic regarding Cena's position. I agree with a lot of what you said in the previous post, I think the idea of having nobody to potentially take over from Cena as #1 draw/babyface is a bit of a chicken & egg situation - there's a reason every other person they've pushed since Cena/Batista/Orton broke through has got to a certain level and no higher (so you have a roster full of Jerichos and only Cena where Rock, Austin, Undertaker and Triple H were), and IMO it's because of them constantly being able to go back to the familiar 'comfort blanket' of having Cena playing the conquering babyface on the biggest shows of the year.  This may well be the best strategy from a commercial standpoint, but the consequence is that there's no way any of those people you talk about will ever be legitimate headliners - i.e able to sell a PPV without a Cena/Taker/Rock to play off - while the current status quo exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Beyond wwe turning cena heel, what happens if tomorrow he decides that's it and quit. Or one of his injuries catches p with him. They need to do something to get someone as over as him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Screen Up Posted February 2, 2012 Author Share Posted February 2, 2012 Turning Cena heel would certainly help to freshen things up a bit. Â The whole character needs an overhaul. Crap t-shirt and awful shorts is not the get-up of a superstar. Â This would be true if it weren't for the extra dimensions to Cena's character. He's not just a gurning white-meat babyface who wears cartoon merchandise any more. If you watched the Royal Rumble then you'll have seen the vignette for his upcoming match with The Rock which sums up his character perfectly. He's the man that the adults hate because he's a goody-two-shoes company man who never puts a foot wrong, but should still be respected for the work he has put into getting where he has and being such a great ambassador in an industry which so often receives negative press. Â Regardless of whether you cheer or boo him, Cena is over like a motherbitch. Hogan, Austin and The Rock got most of their pops and reactions during boom periods. Cena is getting earth-shattering responses when Raw is struggling to do a 3.00 weekly rating. Â EDIT - I will add to this that I agree with Magnum here and a couple of others in that somebody else needs to be brought as near to this level as possible because Cena won't be around forever, either. However, it would be wrong to turn him heel until somebody else does reach that position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spotlightmagnet1 Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 My biggest problem with WWE is simply the fact that there is no drama anymore. When John Cena was going up against Batista was the last time a top line match gathered my interest, because both men were major stars and rather than joking about each other they would talk about each others strengths and weaknesses. Â I hoped it ws a John Cena thing, when he dropped the title for a long time his crappy schtick would vanish but CM Punk has been worse if anything. Now Cena use to say things like Miz is a butt weasel and just squash him, but Punk has gone worse. He kept going on about how boring Alberto Del Rio was to the point where I had to agree and decide not to watch the bloody match. Â Like Chris Jericho said in his first book, he slagged off a wrestler for being old but where does that get him? If he wins he's just beaten a sad old man and if he loses he got his butt whooped by a sad old man. If Punk had focused on Del Rio's suits and cars and hair etc, the build might've paid off more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Eddie Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I'd go as far as to say there's absolutely no chance of making any of the current roster into the kind of 'bonafide headliners' you talk about in your previous post without doing something drastic regarding Cena's position. I agree with a lot of what you said in the previous post, I think the idea of having nobody to potentially take over from Cena as #1 draw/babyface is a bit of a chicken & egg situation - there's a reason every other person they've pushed since Cena/Batista/Orton broke through has got to a certain level and no higher (so you have a roster full of Jerichos and only Cena where Rock, Austin, Undertaker and Triple H were), and IMO it's because of them constantly being able to go back to the familiar 'comfort blanket' of having Cena playing the conquering babyface on the biggest shows of the year. That is pretty much exactly as I see it. I fully understand that WWE don't want to turn him while he's so valuable; it's pretty hard to justify to a room full of shareholders and they don't have a replacement ready. Â The problem is that no-one else has received the same treatment that Cena gets for anything even close to the same amount of time. Without that level of sustained push and protection it's bloody hard for a true Main Event Superstar to break out. Orton came close a few times, but the booking failed him hugely. Batista was almost there, and they did that (much like they have with Mark Henry) by keeping him on a different Brand to Cena and booking him as the King of his Hill. Lashley was pushed to the moon and they tried to present him as an equal to Cena, but that was doomed because Lashley is so shit. It's very rare that they even try. Â They are stuck in a cycle that is creatively stifling, yet keeps the money rolling in. The problem is that their business is very slowly getting worse so there is only so long they can keep this up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Joe Joe Jr Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Anyone else catch Cabana's AOW yet this week? Punk was on the preamble, which always makes the show that much better, and revealed that his 3-disc DVD set has been greenlit. Apparently he'll be picking everything and making the decisions, like getting his mates' bands featured on it. So I'm guessing H20 and AFI then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awards Moderator HarmonicGenerator Posted February 2, 2012 Awards Moderator Share Posted February 2, 2012 I'd go as far as to say there's absolutely no chance of making any of the current roster into the kind of 'bonafide headliners' you talk about in your previous post without doing something drastic regarding Cena's position. I agree with a lot of what you said in the previous post, I think the idea of having nobody to potentially take over from Cena as #1 draw/babyface is a bit of a chicken & egg situation - there's a reason every other person they've pushed since Cena/Batista/Orton broke through has got to a certain level and no higher (so you have a roster full of Jerichos and only Cena where Rock, Austin, Undertaker and Triple H were), and IMO it's because of them constantly being able to go back to the familiar 'comfort blanket' of having Cena playing the conquering babyface on the biggest shows of the year. That is pretty much exactly as I see it. I fully understand that WWE don't want to turn him while he's so valuable; it's pretty hard to justify to a room full of shareholders and they don't have a replacement ready. Â The problem is that no-one else has received the same treatment that Cena gets for anything even close to the same amount of time. Without that level of sustained push and protection it's bloody hard for a true Main Event Superstar to break out. Orton came close a few times, but the booking failed him hugely. Batista was almost there, and they did that (much like they have with Mark Henry) by keeping him on a different Brand to Cena and booking him as the King of his Hill. Lashley was pushed to the moon and they tried to present him as an equal to Cena, but that was doomed because Lashley is so shit. It's very rare that they even try. Â They are stuck in a cycle that is creatively stifling, yet keeps the money rolling in. The problem is that their business is very slowly getting worse so there is only so long they can keep this up. Â Interesting that you mention Lashley there - I think he's a big contribution in why they don't anymore. I reckon there's an element of fear to it now... Lesnar was pushed into a megastar role almost right from the get-go, and he buggered off after two years. They gave a very similar level of push to Lashley in 2007... and he buggered off. I wonder if there's not just a slight amount of "what if we do all of this all over again and the guy fucks off, again? What's the point?" They know Cena's there for life - career-ending injuries or other unforeseen circumstances notwithstanding. Orton's the same, while Batista was gifted to them on a plate due to the response to his turn in 05. Maybe the reason people languish underneath for so long now is a way of testing the waters - give them bugger all for ages, and if they stick around, maybe they can do something bigger and better with them then. Â I'm not saying it's a good idea, but if I'd been burned twice before like with Lesnar and Lashley, I'd have reservations about giving others the same kind of push. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingo Warrior Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 WWE are starting to become a bit like WCW as in relying too much on the established stars while at the same time neglecting the wealth of talent that they have at their disposal. Â Now granted WWE still make tons of money and will not be going out of business anytime soon however they really need to be taking things more seriously when it comes to elevating new talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Nexus Posted February 3, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted February 3, 2012 Do you consider CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, Cody Rhodes and Jack Swagger to be established stars? What about Primo and Epico? They're the ones holding the belts. Obviously, the WWE are not interested in helping to develop new stars. Nope. It's the old guard that are carrying the straps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members WWFChilli Posted February 3, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted February 3, 2012 Do you consider CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, Cody Rhodes and Jack Swagger to be established stars? What about Primo and Epico? They're the ones holding the belts. Obviously, the WWE are not interested in helping to develop new stars. Nope. It's the old guard that are carrying the straps. Â What really is an established star? It's more than likely that John Cena really is wrestling's ONLY established star somewhat since he has the mainstream crossover appeal. Undertaker and the other old guard do help the ratings, but I always feel the term 'Established Star' is very vague. In the 'WWE Universe' I would call CM Punk an established star, Cody Rhodes is an established star. Just because they don't get treated like Hogan doesn't not make them 'established' in the WWE bubble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingo Warrior Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Do you consider CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, Cody Rhodes and Jack Swagger to be established stars? What about Primo and Epico? They're the ones holding the belts. Obviously, the WWE are not interested in helping to develop new stars. Nope. It's the old guard that are carrying the straps. Â Both CM Punk and Daniel Bryan are established stars. Â In my view Cody Rhodes does not have what it takes to become a star, Jack Swagger is a tremendous talent but is treated as an afterthought. Â Primo and Epico again are very talented individuals but as the WWE do not care much for Tag Teams they do not stand a chance of being allowed to get over. Â Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingo Warrior Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 A general question. Â What makes the WWE stand out compared to other wrestling promotions ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Pitcos Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Mongs like you thinking you know better than the people running the show. Â Rock vs Cena will be interesting but for the match to be successful there needs to be a clean winner at the end. Because most of WrestleMania's buys come from people who checked online to see if it had CLEAN FINISHES~ and ordered the replay? Â Turning Cena heel would certainly help to freshen things up a bit. Â The whole character needs an overhaul. Crap t-shirt and awful shorts is not the get-up of a superstar. It's the get-up of the biggest superstar in wrestling, you tit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie Freebird Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Old Pity is back, and I for one am loving it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members WWFChilli Posted February 4, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted February 4, 2012 A general question. What makes the WWE stand out compared to other wrestling promotions ?  Do you really not know the answer to this question? Really. Do you actually not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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